[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Nothing about the PP2 makes sense really. They don't want FULL track capability, but they put R Comp SC 2's on it?!?!?! WTF for? Why do you need 305 SC's up front for a 'street car'? It is in this weird stupid middle spot. Too much for the street, too little for the track. It is essentially 'good for nothing'.

The truth is, Ford is just not playing the same game this generation. They're killing it in sales, so good for them as a corporation. It is impossible to knock them for what seems a winning 'sales' strategy. If I were a Mustang fan though, like a die hard Ford guy, I would be really pissed and feel like they just keep jerking me off for a buck. It would be real hard to stay loyal to a company that seems to care not about crapping on their base for a $.

about sums it up.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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Honestly what I don't understand. If you are going to take on the 1LE, take it on, don't handicap the PP2 with only being capable of a couple laps. If this is the case why even bother. Just stay with your GT350 products for track duty. Focus on what the majority of GT owners are interested in to begin with straight line performance.

Totally agree. But I noticed that you have a 2013 Boss 302 listed as your present toy. The last time I was at the track there was a guy I ended up hanging out with that drove one (not sure of the year though, and it was not the Laguna Seca version). He was pretty much stock except for better wheels/tires. He was flying, and had no trouble with the 90 degree heat either. I was highly impressed.

Do you track your Boss?

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Totally agree. But I noticed that you have a 2013 Boss 302 listed as your present toy. The last time I was at the track there was a guy I ended up hanging out with that drove one (not sure of the year though, and it was not the Laguna Seca version). He was pretty much stock except for better wheels/tires. He was flying, and had no trouble with the 90 degree heat either. I was highly impressed.

Do you track your Boss?

Haven't tracked it yet, not sure I will. The car has lower miles and is mint so not sure I want to take the chance. I just enjoy spirited driving on the street. The car is so much fun I can see it getting me into trouble quickly on a track by pushing it beyond my ability.

Yes you are right I never heard much about the Boss overheating on the track. The Boss did come with an upgraded radiator and oil cooler, revised oil pan baffling, and a finned differential cover. I guess these upgrades keep temps in check.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Haven't tracked it yet, not sure I will. The car has lower miles and is mint so not sure I want to take the chance. I just enjoy spirited driving on the street. The car is so much fun I can see it getting me into trouble quickly on a track by pushing it beyond my ability.

Yes you are right I never heard much about the Boss overheating on the track. The Boss did come with an upgraded radiator and oil cooler, revised oil pan baffling, and a finned differential cover. I guess these upgrades keep temps in check.

This was going to be my question. I never heard of the Boss cars having issues with heat

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by shaffe

This was going to be my question. I never heard of the Boss cars having issues with heat

Nope..

The Boss cars were about the last of the recent Ford "halo" or premium performance cars (IE non-GT's) that didn't have problems. The 2013+ GT500 had some problems, the GT350 does obviously, etc.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Haven't tracked it yet, not sure I will. The car has lower miles and is mint so not sure I want to take the chance. I just enjoy spirited driving on the street. The car is so much fun I can see it getting me into trouble quickly on a track by pushing it beyond my ability.

Yes you are right I never heard much about the Boss overheating on the track. The Boss did come with an upgraded radiator and oil cooler, revised oil pan baffling, and a finned differential cover. I guess these upgrades keep temps in check.

But did the Boss have the temp sensors so you can monitor them? The new ones you can see the temps and go into limp mode, does the Boss do that? If not, they may be running hot, but no way to check.

[zx9rmal]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Nothing about the PP2 makes sense really. They don't want FULL track capability, but they put R Comp SC 2's on it?!?!?! WTF for? Why do you need 305 SC's up front for a 'street car'? It is in this weird stupid middle spot. Too much for the street, too little for the track. It is essentially 'good for nothing'.

The truth is, Ford is just not playing the same game this generation. They're killing it in sales, so good for them as a corporation. It is impossible to knock them for what seems a winning 'sales' strategy. If I were a Mustang fan though, like a die hard Ford guy, I would be really pissed and feel like they just keep jerking me off for a buck. It would be real hard to stay loyal to a company that seems to care not about crapping on their base for a $.

Who knows what the folks at Ford were thinking. I will disagree a bit with your comments in your first paragraph. For example, that makes sense for a guy like me. I do NOT track my car, but I want max performance on the street. I corner very aggressively, evidenced by the fact that the OEM SC3's on my 1LE were gone at 9,800 miles. If I were a Mustang guy, I would like this. Who knows how many guys like me are out there. I guess that's what Ford is going for????

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by zx9rmal

Who knows what the folks at Ford were thinking. I will disagree a bit with your comments in your first paragraph. For example, that makes sense for a guy like me. I do NOT track my car, but I want max performance on the street. I corner very aggressively, evidenced by the fact that the OEM SC3's on my 1LE were gone at 9,800 miles. If I were a Mustang guy, I would like this. Who knows how many guys like me are out there. I guess that's what Ford is going for????

And I totally see where you are coming from as well. I won't lie the thought crossed my mind if I could swing a Mustang as a toy a PP2 would be cool to have just as a street car, so maybe in one sense Ford isn't as dumb as I think they are right now.

BUT at the same time, everything about this car screams we want to close the gap with the 1LE because it handed the PP1 it's ass on a silver platter, yet in the first magazine review the car over heated.

[FastCarFanBoy]

The Boss does not have tranny or diff temp sensors and they get hot(300ish) but they hold up , just run good fluids and change them often

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by zx9rmal

Who knows what the folks at Ford were thinking. I will disagree a bit with your comments in your first paragraph. For example, that makes sense for a guy like me. I do NOT track my car, but I want max performance on the street. I corner very aggressively, evidenced by the fact that the OEM SC3's on my 1LE were gone at 9,800 miles. If I were a Mustang guy, I would like this. Who knows how many guys like me are out there. I guess that's what Ford is going for????

Needing SC2's to stay on the road is a bit extreme don't you think? I too am a lover of aggressive driving, but if R Comps are what you need to keep your car on the road and handle your driving style then I think you have crossed over from aggressive driving in to reckless endangerment......which truth be told IS Mustang driver territory sadly. Maybe Ford did it in hopes of saving the next Cars and Coffee crowd?

Okay, I kid of course......but seriously it is still an extreme tire for a street car....period.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Needing SC2's to stay on the road is a bit extreme don't you think? I too am a lover of aggressive driving, but if R Comps are what you need to keep your car on the road and handle your driving style then I think you have crossed over from aggressive driving in to reckless endangerment......which truth be told IS Mustang driver territory sadly. Maybe Ford did it in hopes of saving the next Cars and Coffee crowd?

Okay, I kid of course......but seriously it is still an extreme tire for a street car....period.

No reason at all to have that tire unless the car is targeted at track duty, for 2-laps . If they were interested in street performance I can see the 305s size being ok but with a less aggressive street tire maybe the PS4s.

[torqueaddict]

For the street, an SS with good tires is probably all that 99% of drivers need, even those that drive aggressively. Competitive driving? That's where the 1LE comes into play, IMO . What that said, there's certainly nothing wrong with having a 1LE for street use, especially if you have the patience to find one at a good bargain. It's just that its true potential will largely go untapped.

As for as cooling, whether one thinks it's needed or not doesn't change the fact that more cooling in the high temp high stress components of a performance vehicle is always good, even if it's not being used on the track. We didn't buy these cars to drive like Ms. Daisy. More cooling = slower fluid breakdown.

I'm reading of the PP1 and 2 running high diff/tranny temps with just everyday aggressive driving. If that's the case, these cars would have benefited from additional cooling even on the street.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

No reason at all to have that tire unless the car is targeted at track duty, for 2-laps . If they were interested in street performance I can see the 305s size being ok but with a less aggressive street tire maybe the PS4s.

Exactly, and honestly that's the only beef I have is the mixed message. The car is outfitted with track tires, but not supposed to be tracked? If they threw 305 MPS4's like you say, then the package makes complete sense!

I also think, once the GT500 drops the GT350 will die and the PP2 will come stock with coolers. Will be Ford's lower cost track car at that point.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by zx9rmal

Who knows what the folks at Ford were thinking. I will disagree a bit with your comments in your first paragraph. For example, that makes sense for a guy like me. I do NOT track my car, but I want max performance on the street. I corner very aggressively, evidenced by the fact that the OEM SC3's on my 1LE were gone at 9,800 miles. If I were a Mustang guy, I would like this. Who knows how many guys like me are out there. I guess that's what Ford is going for????

But there is one more factor to consider with regards to Ford's choice of tire. From what I understand, those tires need to be heated up before they get grip (like most track tires), BUT unlike other track tires, the performance is greatly compromised when they are NOT heated up.

So, in other words, you won't get your desired maximum grip on the street with these tires (which is your stated original objective). There are better choices for that. A guy like you (street only) would find more grip with a different tire than the Sport Cup 2's.

That's why this is so confusing (to some). If this car is designed for "never on the track", why a tire that only provides grip when fully heated up, and otherwise is not that grippy? To me, it's obvious. Ford wanted a lap time to compete with the 1LE, and these tires are what are needed to do that. A tire that is more grippy on the street may not be as good on the track as the SC2's, and they wouldn't get the lap time they were shooting for.