Which car can be modified further? GT-R Vs SS

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

two engines with same displacement but one with 2 more cylinders, the one with more cylinders has the advantage.

Yes, though the advantage gets less and less pronounced the more cylinders you add. The extra cylinders mean that the gap gets between firings smaller and smaller. Massive difference 2 vs 4 (360 degrees of crankshaft rotation vs 180), big difference 4 vs 6 (180 vs 120). Moderate difference 6 vs 8 (120 vs 90). Some difference 8 vs 10 (90 vs 72). Small difference 10 vs 12 (72 vs 60).

Anyway, the two cars in question don't have the same displacement and neither did the cars in my example, which was to refute the claim that more cylinders are always better.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Yes, though the advantage gets less and less pronounced the more cylinders you add. The extra cylinders mean that the gap gets between firings smaller and smaller. Massive difference 2 vs 4 (360 degrees of crankshaft rotation vs 180), big difference 4 vs 6 (180 vs 120). Moderate difference 6 vs 8 (120 vs 90). Some difference 8 vs 10 (90 vs 72). Small difference 10 vs 12 (72 vs 60).

Anyway, the two cars in question don't have the same displacement and neither did the cars in my example, which was to refute the claim that more cylinders are always better.

but that would be like refuting the claim of more displacement is always better as well then because there are other variables not being taken into account

[CyberPredator]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Not always. I'd say an LS3 has more potential than a 5.2L V10 from Audi/Lamborghini. And ultimately, I bet you could get more out of a Viper V10 than you could out of a Ferrari V12. There are other examples out there as well.

I would say this is false since UR has kits with the gallardo making 900 on the stock internals, but I do get what you are saying because the statement before yours was to generic

[Team STILLEN]

Originally Posted by mjk

I remember reading that they lowered the launch RPMs for It think 2010. and to compensate they raised the boost in higher gears. People would crack the first gear. I do believe some after market companies got a fix for that, by swapping 1st gear for a beefier unit, but i dont remember if you could just swap it, or if you had to upgrade to a new trans..

The first cars had a 4500 rpm launch. At that much RPM, they had a lot of wheel hop. The wheel hop was killing first gear. The launch rpm was lowered to 3000 for the later 09 cars, and the 10's. The 11's launch at 3300 rpms.

There are a couple companies that have 1st gear and complete gearset upgrades. These change just the gears themselves. There are no "aftermarket" complete transmissions, as the trans, the transfer case, the clutch, and rear end are all a single part.



The LS is a proven engine, with a lot of history behind it. Historically speaking its going to be less expensive to make power out of the Camaro than the GT-R.

[Vince69]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Not always. I'd say an LS3 has more potential than a 5.2L V10 from Audi/Lamborghini. And ultimately, I bet you could get more out of a Viper V10 than you could out of a Ferrari V12. There are other examples out there as well.

Sorry should of elaborated on that. What I'm saying is, you have more potential in a car with a larger engine, modification wise. Since he's asking about mods.

[2011 5.0]

GT-R. It's asian. They have a ton of things to build up their engines. They need to in order to keep up with American cars.

[mjk]

Originally Posted by Team STILLEN

The first cars had a 4500 rpm launch. At that much RPM, they had a lot of wheel hop. The wheel hop was killing first gear. The launch rpm was lowered to 3000 for the later 09 cars, and the 10's. The 11's launch at 3300 rpms.

There are a couple companies that have 1st gear and complete gearset upgrades. These change just the gears themselves. There are no "aftermarket" complete transmissions, as the trans, the transfer case, the clutch, and rear end are all a single part.



The LS is a proven engine, with a lot of history behind it. Historically speaking its going to be less expensive to make power out of the Camaro than the GT-R.

cool, thanks clearing my memory up. its been a while since i followed nagtroc

[calbert1999]

Personally, for the cost of the GT-R, I'd mod the shit out of my Camaro SS, and watch the GT-R try and catch up to me in my rear view mirror. And, still have some spare dollars for a NAV system, 1200watt amp., and a couple of 12" subs, 2 pairs of mids, high output tweets, and a top of the line Viper alarm system that talks in a females voice in 3 different languages if you get within 2ft. of my vehicle. LOL

[assasinator]

no "for the cost" rules here. when you say you can mod your camaro to run a gtr's stock times its irrelevant.

are we saying no limits? in other words the gt-r has to use a stock engine, transmission, drivetrain -------but the camaro can use super high dollar 50k engine and aftermarket lenco transmission?

because if the parameters are: run anything that can fit, there are 1200hp drivetrains out there for the gtr that are full race parts.

you guys need to limit the LS3 to stock displacement, and modded stock heads, etc and the gtr does the same. the boost level a gtr can run tips the advantage into its favor.

all motor cannot compete with forced induction.


so we are saying the GTR has a weak stock transmission, i can program the pcm to add boost gradually till i reach the engine's limit. in each gear. keep it withing the limits but add boost until it wins.

[assasinator]

pressure ratio rules the world. i can boost 1 bar (14.7 psi)and it effectively doubles my displacement. a 3.2 liter performs like a 6.4 liter. i boost 2 bar (29.4 psi), it acts like 3 times...etc.


my 96 requires that i add boost with rpms and not hit it hard off the line. id just whack my rear bumper. same with the GTR just add it gradually.



the advantage of more cylinders is valve area.

a 5 valve 5 liter ferrari v12 will outperform a 5 liter, 5 valve v10 or V8.

[Sax1031]

The cost argument is dumb because you could make the SS look stupid for a fraction of the cost.

I have always had the run what you brung attitude. Leave the excuses somewhere else.

[Jay J]

Just a few boltons though the GTR with a reflash can push north of 600 at the ground(HKS has a kit) which is still on the conservative side

[3.5VQ]

Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH

The Nissan GT-R has All-Wheel-Drive and has a 486hp 3.6L v6 engine,

Where do people get these numbers from? First of all its a 3.8L twin turbo V6 engine. Secondly its pushing 485HP not for 486HP. The 2012 ones are pushing 530HP.

[BigDan]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Not always. I'd say an LS3 has more potential than a 5.2L V10 from Audi/Lamborghini. And ultimately, I bet you could get more out of a Viper V10 than you could out of a Ferrari V12. There are other examples out there as well.

and there is now a bunch of 1,000+hp GTR's out there and running 9.1 right off the dyno. As far as mod potential there isn't going to be any sort of clear answer since I feel a lot of cars are all on level ground considering mod potential since you can turn just about anything into a 9 second racer using rebuilt, beefed up and modified stock parts in a sort of stock configuration.

I think the GTR is capable of a lot more for less. Mid 10's is easy with a mid pipe and K&N drop n filter on a early model and they are already in the 10's on a stock 2012. GT35 upgrade and your in the 9's built motor and your in the 8's. But you can also go easy 8's in a new Camaro with an injected big block and a stalled auto but it will look like a race car vs the GTR which still looks stock. If you want to go fast in a new Camaro you are going to need an entirely new engine and drivetrain layout vs just a beefed stock parts on a GTR. Not to mention the GT-R was designed and engineered as a 200mph supercar chassis which is far cry from Camaro.