[Bhobbs]

That’s why GM is all in on EVs. Don’t want to bite the hand that feeds.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

A recent survey looked like this. One point in the article referred to loyalty.

EV adopters are loyal. For those who have made the switch to an EV, it could be permanent: 86% of EV owners say they would buy an EV for their next car purchase.

I would tend to agree with this data point. Most folks that have made the leap say they could never go back to ICE. The typical driver (not most of us enthusiasts) love the smooth power of the electric powertrain and the improved tech.

https://jalopnik.com/some-ev-drivers...unt-1846811572


While the data is from 2012 to 2018, this article says it 1/5 that switch back to ICE. I'd say that's significant considering that’s a population of people that went out of their way to buy an ev.

[arpad_m]

“That tax credit of $7,500 is significant in a purchase decision,” GM CEO Barra said during a television appearance on CNBC last week, as quoted by Automotive News. “We’d like to see (the 200,000 vehicle limit) lifted and let the marketplace decide and not penalize first movers.”

Oh the hypocrisy. Since when does "let the marketplace decide" mean "years after no longer qualifying, we now want to enjoy some more of the free tax ride on the backs of the 97-98% that do not buy EVs"?

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Hops

https://jalopnik.com/some-ev-drivers...unt-1846811572


While the data is from 2012 to 2018, this article says it 1/5 that switch back to ICE. I'd say that's significant considering that’s a population of people that went out of their way to buy an ev.

I think starting around 2018 when the battery range and charge rates increased we saw a big improvement.

I needed the ability to charge at home in my garage or it was an EV was non-starter. If you have a garage with the service panel nearby with room for a 50-60amp circuit breaker then the cost to add a NEMA-50 outlet is pretty cheap, I only paid $200 to have it installed. However, if you need to add a sub-panel or need some long runs of cable then it can get expensive. Luckily most service panels seem to be located in the garage and have some capacity available.

As for charge times, if you mainly drive around town then charging is a non-issue. I get about 280miles of range on a 90% charge and usually only need to charge up about once every 7-10 days. My wife drives a bit more and she needs to charge about every 2-3 days. We never really run down to low state of charge, we just keep topping off as needed the battery management system figures it all out for you. The charge rate at 60amps is 44miles per hour, which is more than adequate and you can even schedule the charge time for off peak hours to lower costs.

It becomes a challenge for those in apartment complexes or any areas where it is hard to get power out to your vehicle. Some folks still manage to use Superchargers only, which would be tough for me but if you live near one then I guess it could work. I would only use a Supercharger if I were taking a trip and needed to charge along the way. Supercharging is pretty amazing when you see charge rates on the screen north of 200Kw. After living with two Tesla Model 3s for the past 2 years we have never been worried about range anxiety or annoyed by the charging. It is kind of a trade off vs.having to stop and pump your own gas, paying at the pump, etc. When it is in the garage you just plug it in and walk away and the app sends you an alert when it is done.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

This sort of thing needs to end, the sooner the better...The true nature of EVs popularity is still skewed....Sales loyalty and popularity still has a pretty steep cost, paid for by all US taxpayers....Oh well. The more time passes, the bigger mess this EV future all becomes...

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/05...-credit-rules/

Something fun to read from the article....deja vu all over again...:

In addition, the UAW has expressed a desire for Biden’s EV tax credit to only apply to American-made EVs. This came in the wake of GM’s decision to invest $1 billion in its Ramos Arizpe plant in Mexico, paving the way for it to build two new electric vehicles there.

“At a time when General Motors is asking for a significant investment by the U.S. government in subsidizing electric vehicles, this is a slap in the face for not only UAW members and their families but also for U.S. taxpayers and the American workforce,” UAW vice president Terry Dittes said in a statement.

GM has (3) Factory Zero facilities planned for the US, one in Canada, one in Mexico. When the one for Canada was announced, the UAW said....

Nothing.

Later, when the one for Mexico was announced, suddenly it’s “Aww hellz naw, you can’t do that. It has to be made in the USA. You’re disrespecting the UAW.” So what’s the difference? Why no complaints about Canada? Unifor.

So, why is GM building EVs in Mexico? Other than the fact that GM has been building vehicles in the Ramos Arizpe plant for decades? Because Mexico has free trade agreements with most of the civilized world. Smooth business move. Should GM decide to market EVs in Europe, guess where they’ll be built?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

“That tax credit of $7,500 is significant in a purchase decision,” GM CEO Barra said during a television appearance on CNBC last week, as quoted by Automotive News. “We’d like to see (the 200,000 vehicle limit) lifted and let the marketplace decide and not penalize first movers.”

Oh the hypocrisy. Since when does "let the marketplace decide" mean "years after no longer qualifying, we now want to enjoy some more of the free tax ride on the backs of the 97-98% that do not buy EVs"?

Read it this way....GM wants a level playing field. Elimination of the tax credit, which I disagree with, because of past success but retaining it for Porsche, Audi and all others does seem to be unfair.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Read it this way....GM wants a level playing field. Elimination of the tax credit, which I disagree with, because of past success but retaining it for Porsche, Audi and all others does seem to be unfair.

Well, judging from this quote, what she wants is the elimination of the 200,000 vehicle limit, that is, perpetuating the $7,500 subsidy, which is the polar opposite of "letting the marketplace decide". Not sure about your definition of a level playing field, aren't the rules the same for every player at the moment? Full subsidy for the first 200,000 vehicles that then tapers off after reaching the threshold? I could see Tesla proposing the abolition of the 200,000 vehicle threshold, since they did much of the actual "groundbreaking", but it sounds a bit hollow from any of the big 3, including GM.

GM's past EV performance is borderline embarrassing. Since I've been a Pontiac and later Chevrolet guy, I did consider buying a GM EV as a city commuter, a use case where an electric or at least a hybrid makes a lot of sense. By the time I was ready to look at a Volt, GM announced they would discontinue it (a dealbreaker for me), and the only other offering is the Bolt that, apart from being small, is so unspeakably ugly there is no way I will even consider it. Even now, for model year 2022, this is all there is as far as GM are concerned—when the Tesla Model S was introduced in 2012.

Look, I'm not saying there aren't any good reasons behind all this, I just can't stand BS and even less this sort of hypocrisy, that's all.

[Puddin]

Looks like the Mustang name wasn't the only big name Ford planned on using for their electric lineup. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/05/10/...it-may-19.html

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Sure a base Civic today is faster than an ‘87 IROC with a TPI 350. My Camaro blows the doors off 97% of all previous Camaros before it. But I’d still take a mechanical parking brake and easier repairability with fewer computer reliant systems. And the rawness of old cars is something we’ve lost in the modern age. I like a more direct, raw, real feel. Nothing wrong with a little cowl shake at 100 mph so you know your alive, and not driving in a simulator.



And the lumpy idle. Feeling the car just shake at the red light.



Who on earth would even consider an electric motorcycle?

Just drove a friend's 1990 NA Miata today. As everyone would tell you, it's really fun. Sure the car is not fast with it's dinky 1.8L 4-pot, but it weighs nothing and there is very little in the way of technology. Just you, the 5-speed manual(which is decent for a 30-year-old car), and the car.

That's not to say the tech in the Camaro isn't great. They are, and that's not limited to just electronics, but sometimes less is more. I am okay with making compromises on things like electronic parking brake since I don't drift, but a smartphone-like car is way too much, and once in a while, it's a fresh breath to be in something more primal and mechanical. Alas, we are in the minority.

And don't we already have electric scooters? They are good for commuting in some cases, but yeah they are nothing like motorcycles.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Just drove a friend's 1990 NA Miata today. As everyone would tell you, it's really fun. Sure the car is not fast with it's dinky 1.8L 4-pot, but it weighs nothing and there is very little in the way of technology. Just you, the 5-speed manual(which is decent for a 30-year-old car), and the car.

That's not to say the tech in the Camaro isn't great. They are, and that's not limited to just electronics, but sometimes less is more. I am okay with making compromises on things like electronic parking brake since I don't drift, but a smartphone-like car is way too much, and once in a while, it's a fresh breath to be in something more primal and mechanical. Alas, we are in the minority.

And don't we already have electric scooters? They are good for commuting in some cases, but yeah they are nothing like motorcycles.

I have a Tesla but my other fun car right now is a Miata ND. The new ones now have 181hp and are even more fun to drive. At 2300lbs it feels like you are driving a go kart on the street and you can beat on it and still get 30mpg. They also revised the motor and it revs out to 7500 rpm, which is match to a close ration 6 speed with short gearing.

The new Miatas have pretty decent tech as well if you want such features in a car like this. My GT trim has wireless CarPlay, rain sensing wipers, Smart city braking, blind spot detection, rear traffic cross alert, lane departure warning, adaptive headlights (they swivel as you go around turns) Bose speakers in the headrests, etc. They are also relatively cheap to modify which makes for a lot of fun.

[90503]

Something I've yet to hear about regarding EVs...Are the easy, hard, impossible to be stolen? Would there be any new features or reliable theft deterrents that current ICE cars and trucks do not have? Any theft/recovery stats or stories?....Is there a market yet for stolen ones, their batteries recycle value, if any or whatever? No catalytic converter to be stolen, like ICE. That has to be a plus.

Might as well ask about insurance as well...cheaper? same?...Any special risks or discounts for EVs?....etc. Just curious.

Edit....Found this, but nothing about theft...

https://www.caranddriver.com/car-ins...-electric-car/

[cellsafemode]

I think a really successful future program would be in EV conversions of existing cars using the eCrate platform. Done for significantly less money than a new EV, albeit at less performance than a purpose built ev would get... With the goal to push existing ice vehicles out faster than their natural lifespan would replace them.

Throw some of the funds we waste on fighter jets that are instantly obsolete via drones on a program to help lower income people fund such conversions of their existing vehicles. Then you're talking about a few thousand after such rebates instead of 30-40k - plus far less waste.

Can definitely create a diy vibe and plethora of variety in the market to keep the gear-head culture alive and well while the majority of the world moves towards cars as a service/appliance.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

I think a really successful future program would be in EV conversions of existing cars using the eCrate platform. Done for significantly less money than a new EV, albeit at less performance than a purpose built ev would get... With the goal to push existing ice vehicles out faster than their natural lifespan would replace them.

Throw some of the funds we waste on fighter jets that are instantly obsolete via drones on a program to help lower income people fund such conversions of their existing vehicles. Then you're talking about a few thousand after such rebates instead of 30-40k - plus far less waste.

Can definitely create a diy vibe and plethora of variety in the market to keep the gear-head culture alive and well while the majority of the world moves towards cars as a service/appliance.

not a bad idea.lots of people would probably go for a classic car with EV power if gas becomes unobtainable,or really expensive.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

I think a really successful future program would be in EV conversions of existing cars using the eCrate platform. Done for significantly less money than a new EV, albeit at less performance than a purpose built ev would get... With the goal to push existing ice vehicles out faster than their natural lifespan would replace them.

Throw some of the funds we waste on fighter jets that are instantly obsolete via drones on a program to help lower income people fund such conversions of their existing vehicles. Then you're talking about a few thousand after such rebates instead of 30-40k - plus far less waste.

Can definitely create a diy vibe and plethora of variety in the market to keep the gear-head culture alive and well while the majority of the world moves towards cars as a service/appliance.

Yet, somehow, we’ll all find a way to keep ICE going.

I present the LS-equipped Tesla!

These guys are my heroes. Seriously:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=WcS9Kle816s&feature=share

They’re showing us all how to do it. It doesn’t matter how complicated - they’re doing it and that’s all that matters. Somewhere along the line someone will develop brackets, software, hardware, new parts, etc to make the conversion easier and cheaper because more people will want to do it.

They are laying the groundwork for future conversions, clubs, etc. This will be a whole new scene.