[newmoon]

Well the bar has been raised again where now it won't be a success unless it beats the ZR1, this is extremely comical. The bar is 11:40s that the ZL1 runs and ZLE track times. We will see how bad both of these are shattered.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The GT350R weighed 221 lbs less that the ZL1 and costs $3,535 more. The advantage of its carbon fiber wheels, reduce rotating mass (-60 lbs), is proven by the gap the R puts on the base GT350. It also had the advantage of a 8,250 rpm, FPC engine designed specifically for the track.

GT350R: 3662 lbs / 526 hp = 6.96 lbs/hp.
ZL1: 3907 lbs / 650 hp = 6.01 lbs/hp.

$68,230 GT350R
$64,695 ZL1 M6

A full blown track car vs a base grand touring trim. In the 5th gen, you would have expected the lower powered, lower torque Z/28 to beat the GT500 even though they were equal weight.

Not let’s look at the GT500 vs ZL1 1LE

$73,995 GT500 base price
$1,500 Handling package
$1,595 Recaro
$77,090 total

$72,195 ZL1 1LE

$92,495 GT500 Carbon fiber track package

The base GT500 cost $4,895 more than the ZL1 and makes 110 hp more. After all the M6G, torque doesn’t matter threads, are you really going to say Ford needs a car that costs $20,300 more (and 110 HP) to overcome a lack of torque?

I’m only asking that the Ford community live by the standard it set.

The GT350 also had that sporty athletic engine while the ZL1 had the overweight truck engine that catches COPD whenever it goes over 4K RPMs as one of the Mustang guys put it back then.

Originally Posted by newmoon

Well the bar has been raised again where now it won't be a success unless it beats the ZR1, this is extremely comical. The bar is 11:40s that the ZL1 runs and ZLE track times. We will see how bad both of these are shattered.

It will be compared to the ZR1 and Z06 because it is priced comparably to those two cars. The CF GT500 is closer in price to the Z Vettes than it is to the ZLE. So naturally, even if the car is not a natural competitor, it will be compared to all the performance cars that you can get for that same amount of money. If it falls short of those cars, then even if it does beat the ZLE it will still be a failure. Because the argument will come back to the fact that it took a $90K+ car from Ford to beat a $70K car from GM. If the CF GT500 was, let's say, $75K, then it would not be fair to compare it to the ZR1. But people are always going to compare what X amount of money gets them.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Well the bar has been raised again where now it won't be a success unless it beats the ZR1, this is extremely comical. The bar is 11:40s that the ZL1 runs and ZLE track times. We will see how bad both of these are shattered.

source?

[Ethanolic]

Funny thing is you know blaqwhole is going to trade his two cars in and jump ship to the 500 anyway. No way this guy can live with 2 cars that will get drug by a 500 for long.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Well the bar has been raised again where now it won't be a success unless it beats the ZR1, this is extremely comical. The bar is 11:40s that the ZL1 runs and ZLE track times. We will see how bad both of these are shattered.

Ford priced it into that category blame them. You are looking at 100k+ (with ADM) for a MUSTANG. Will it beat the ZL1 on the strip? Yes (probably) but the Redeye already does. The mark to beat now is the Redeye not the ZL1.

As far as matching the ZLE on a track well good luck with that. And good luck with track performance if the rumor about the Z28 is true.

[Martinjlm]

There’s a number of ways of looking at the GT500. If you look at the car “in the moment” then most of the questions answer themselves....

Is it a good looking car? I think it looks awesome.
Does it have power? Oh, yeah. It’s got outstanding power.
Does it have differentiating tech? Yes. Even without a flat planed crank, the engine is a work of art. The DCT is potentially groundbreaking (we won’t know for sure until it’s tested). The CFTP has active aero and CF wheels
Is it priced appropriately? Tougher question. There are a lot of cars priced way above it that might not have all the capabilities of the GT500. The problem for the GT500, at least relating it to price is that there are other vehicles at similar or lower price that have very similar capabilities. For somebody that really appreciates the appearance of this car over others similarly priced, no doubt it’s appropriately priced. For buyers looking for best bang for the buck, probably not.

Now, looking at the car in the broader automotive spectrum...

Will it beat the Redeye and ZL1 in a drag race? Probably, but until we know how much each variant weighs that cannot be stated definitively. It has a significant hp advantage over ZL1 and is close enough in hp with Redeye that unless the base model is super heavy, it should clip both vehicles.
Will it beat ZL1 and ZLE on the track. Tough call, and will probably depend on which track. Long tracks with long straights should benefit the base GT500 vs ZL1 as well as the CTFP vs ZLE. Putting power down is not likely going to be an issue with either variant so the hp advantage should kick in unless it is really heavy. For shorter tracks it will depend on how dialed in the suspension is. Given how dialed in the GT350 suspension is, I would expect the GT500 variants to be even better dialed in and based on that, I’ll place the advantage with GT500 in both configurations.

So, a person shopping for a high performance GT, looking to decide between Redeye, ZL1/ZLE, and GT500 base/CTFP could come to the conclusion that GT500 is the better drag and track car and be left with the question...is the performance difference and subjective appearance enough to motivate spending $12 - 20k more?

On the forums we can bat around the fact that it took Ford 4 years to get where the others already are and we can debate whether “a win is a win no matter how narrow” or if the lengthy wait and taller price tag requires a trouncing to put a check mark in the win column. The person writing the check is not likely to factor the time element into the equation. The price element, definitely, but not so much the time element, unless Dodge or Chevrolet follow in relatively short fashion as they did with Redeye and ZL1 after the GT350 intro.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Ford priced it into that category blame them. You are looking at 100k+ (with ADM) for a MUSTANG. Will it beat the ZL1 on the strip? Yes (probably) but the Redeye already does. The mark to beat now is the Redeye not the ZL1.

As far as matching the ZLE on a track well good luck with that. And good luck with track performance if the rumor about the Z28 is true.

You are assuming you will need the CF package to take out the ZL1. Myself I could care less about unachievable track times I want to know how fast it will be on the street and strip where the car is actually used. Let folks keep buying the ZLE and CF packages only to sell shortly thereafter when they find out the compromises made to achieve these hero track times..

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You are assuming you will need the CF package to take out the ZL1. Myself I could care less about unachievable track times I want to know how fast it will be on the street and strip where the car is actually used. Let folks keep buying the ZLE and CF packages only to sell shortly thereafter when they find out the compromises made to achieve these hero track times..

You will need the carbon package to beat the ZLE. And the 1/4 is about the Redeye now not the ZL1. The Redeye is in it's 3rd model year by 2020 and it is the strip car to beat. If the 500 does not beat the Redeye then yes it's a fail.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You are assuming you will need the CF package to take out the ZL1. Myself I could care less about unachievable track times I want to know how fast it will be on the street and strip where the car is actually used. Let folks keep buying the ZLE and CF packages only to sell shortly thereafter when they find out the compromises made to achieve these hero track times..

Myself, I’d prefer Ford put a little more effort into chassis dynamic so they aren’t a danger to those on the street ...where the car is actually used.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Myself, I’d prefer Ford put a little more effort into chassis dynamic so they aren’t a danger to those on the street ...where the car is actually used.

If you’re putting the public in danger in a Mustang newer than a ‘73... Chassis dynamics aren’t the problem, it’s your lack of driving skill/knowledge of the cars limitations.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Funny thing is you know blaqwhole is going to trade his two cars in and jump ship to the 500 anyway. No way this guy can live with 2 cars that will get drug by a 500 for long.

To be honest, I'm just glad that I can afford one. I'm not saying it in a boastful way. I'm saying it in a way that it is nice to have options to buy a car that costs this much and is completely unnecessary. Quite honestly, looking at other countries (I've been travelling a lot), even being able to afford a new GT or a new anything or even just a car that gets you from point A to B is enough to be satisfied about. Count your blessings. And quite honestly, from what I've seen, I question if I wouldn't be happier leasing a base model Nissan Rogue and spending the rest of my money travelling or buying a beach house or something. But that's a conversation for another day.

But as far jumping ship? How is it "jumping ship" when I and others here have been expressing the desire to buy one for 2 years now? Kttxz06 was holding out for GT500 pricing as well as a few others...speaking of which, where the hell has kttx been? But you can rest assured that I won't be getting one. The 180 MPH limit has me wondering about the stability of the suspension and chassis. The engine problems that carried itself across all trim levels has me worried. And I'm not paying $90K for a Mustang. I was disappointed that the Redeye optioned how I would want one came out to over $90K. I'm not spending that much on any of these cars when they are priced in the range of cars that have way more luxury, AWD, 2 extra doors (M5), and are way more practical and can run pretty damn close to what these RWD cars can run. And I'm not paying Z06 money for a Challenger or Mustang either.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

You will need the carbon package to beat the ZLE. And the 1/4 is about the Redeye now not the ZL1. The Redeye is in it's 3rd model year by 2020 and it is the strip car to beat. If the 500 does not beat the Redeye then yes it's a fail.

You have no idea in regards to either of your points made. Chevy knew they were in trouble which is why the switch to offering the ZLE with the A10 after they said they wouldn't. Chevy knows whats coming apparently you don't though. The only question is will the CF package be required or simply the TP.

What everyone is missing here is that the GT350R almost ran with the ZL1 despite a huge hp/tq disparity, that is no longer the case.

As far as the Redeye, I don't think it will be a problem at least not on factory stock tires. DRs it might be close.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You have no idea in regards to either of your points made. Chevy knew they were in trouble which is why the switch to offering the ZLE with the A10 after they said they wouldn't. Chevy knows whats coming apparently you don't though. The only question is will the CF package be required or simply the TP.

What everyone is missing here is that the GT350R almost ran with the ZL1 despite a huge hp/tq disparity, that is no longer the case.

As far as the Redeye, I don't think it will be a problem at least not on factory stock tires. DRs it might be close.

That move was purely about sales. Its the same reason they offered a convertible and auto in the Z06 and ZR1.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You have no idea in regards to either of your points made. Chevy knew they were in trouble which is why the switch to offering the ZLE with the A10 after they said they wouldn't. Chevy knows whats coming apparently you don't though. The only question is will the CF package be required or simply the TP.

What everyone is missing here is that the GT350R almost ran with the ZL1 despite a huge hp/tq disparity, that is no longer the case.

As far as the Redeye, I don't think it will be a problem at least not on factory stock tires. DRs it might be close.

If a car is so unstable that it needs a speed limiter, I feel pretty safe saying the base model 500 will not beat a ZLE around a track