[redcoats1976]

forklifts have had swappable batteries for many years.styling,however,not so much...i can run a 10,000 pound lift all day before changing batteries .the battery is half the weight of the lift.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Number 3

GM gave swappable batteries a good look well over 10 years ago. Just not practical.

If it were you would have at least seen an SAE recommended practice, which I believe does exist for the charger plug. J1772.

Why isn’t it practical? The Chinese automaker NiO has pulled it off. Not only that but the vehicle’s price point remained in the $30k USD range.

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

forklifts have had swappable batteries for many years.styling,however,not so much...i can run a 10,000 pound lift all day before changing batteries .the battery is half the weight of the lift.

Well obviously a human wouldn’t be attempting to swap it. China has what is called ‘Battery Swapping Stations’ where a machine swaps the battery with a fully charged replacement and offers it as a subscription service. We could do something similar.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Why isn’t it practical? The Chinese automaker NiO has pulled it off. Not only that but the vehicle’s price point remained in the $30k USD range.



Well obviously a human wouldn’t be attempting to swap it. China has what is called ‘Battery Swapping Stations’ where a machine swaps the battery with a fully charged replacement and offers it as a subscription service. We could do something similar.

Exactly, and it's somewhat embarrassing that Chinese engineers made this happen already while people from the industry here are saying it isn't practical... Is it practical to pay $15-20k for a replacement then? How is, say, a battery swap/recycling station at the dealership that cuts deep into the replacement cost not more practical?

[Wyzz Kydd]

I notice two companies, that are much better at selling cars than GM is, have pointedly refused to commit to an all EV lineup. Toyota and Honda. Maybe a nice turbo V6 hybrid in a Supra type vehicle will be forthcoming.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Exactly, and it's somewhat embarrassing that Chinese engineers made this happen already while people from the industry here are saying it isn't practical... Is it practical to pay $15-20k for a replacement then? How is, say, a battery swap/recycling station at the dealership that cuts deep into the replacement cost not more practical?

You see thats the thing. They are more than happy to give us these luxury or high end model EV's that crack about 250 - 300 miles range but when it comes to giving us a practical model thats affordable and has just as much range as an ICE.. ..we get called out for having range anxiety... ...meanwhile these vehicles are a reality in China. It's like they're purposefully doing this to limit how much we drive.

[bigd1276]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

You see thats the thing. They are more than happy to give us these luxury or high end model EV's that crack about 250 - 300 miles range but when it comes to giving us a practical model thats affordable and has just as much range as an ICE.. ..we get called out for having range anxiety... ...meanwhile these vehicles are a reality in China. It's like they're purposefully doing this to limit how much we drive.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Hops

Why? It seems like swappable batteries is the only way we can have any EV motorsports with long race durations. Lotus is planning for a 2030 EV LeMan entry with battery swapping.

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Why isn’t it practical? The Chinese automaker NiO has pulled it off. Not only that but the vehicle’s price point remained in the $30k USD range.



Well obviously a human wouldn’t be attempting to swap it. China has what is called ‘Battery Swapping Stations’ where a machine swaps the battery with a fully charged replacement and offers it as a subscription service. We could do something similar.

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

forklifts have had swappable batteries for many years.styling,however,not so much...i can run a 10,000 pound lift all day before changing batteries .the battery is half the weight of the lift.

Brifly Mionhas a solution with 100/stations. Not an industry or country wide solution. EASY if you have your model only to deal with.

Your fork lift isn’t driving 300 miles and the battery isn’t 1,000 pounds. And your swap isn’t public in a charging/changing station.

Never said it wasn’t POSSIBLE. GM found it impractical.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Brifly Mionhas a solution with 100/stations. Not an industry or country wide solution. EASY if you have your model only to deal with.

Your fork lift isn’t driving 300 miles and the battery isn’t 1,000 pounds. And your swap isn’t public in a charging/changing station.

Never said it wasn’t POSSIBLE. GM found it impractical.

Standardize battery configurations and sizes where all manufactures will have to comply with them. Some vehicles may or may not have more / less range, however; battery recharging & replacing stations would be able to focus on multiple makes and models so it would not be a 'GM' effort but an energy company such as Shell or BP (and these companies are already investing in recharging stations).

We already standardize just about everything in telecom / communications / electricity / IT / ect.. ..despite multiple vendors and manufacturers being involved. Why would the same be difficult for Auto Manufacturers?

[Need4Camaro]

Here's an EV that looks pretty sick to drive.. ..it has 3 gears too.. wonder how they pulled that off and if we can see something similar in production cars.. and I wonder if it comes at the sacrifice of something else...

https://youtu.be/zT4v0gTCbeg?t=178

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Here's an EV that looks pretty sick to drive.. ..it has 3 gears too.. wonder how they pulled that off and if we can see something similar in production cars.. and I wonder if it comes at the sacrifice of something else...

https://youtu.be/zT4v0gTCbeg?t=178

I realize that is a rally race car but the NVH is horrible.

Gearing in EVs has been debated but Tesla pretty much proved with the Model S Plaid that you don't need any gearing. Gears and paddles may provide more driving engagement but it will not help performance once the Plaid technology trickles down to the lower price points.

At some point I would expect most performance EVs to have torque curves like this. It is actually getting ridiculous.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Standardize battery configurations and sizes where all manufactures will have to comply with them. Some vehicles may or may not have more / less range, however; battery recharging & replacing stations would be able to focus on multiple makes and models so it would not be a 'GM' effort but an energy company such as Shell or BP (and these companies are already investing in recharging stations).

We already standardize just about everything in telecom / communications / electricity / IT / ect.. ..despite multiple vendors and manufacturers being involved. Why would the same be difficult for Auto Manufacturers?

The issue gets much more difficult when the pack becomes part of the structure and hence crashworthiness.

And when you need twice the pack like a GMC Hummer EV? Just not as easy as you are imagining. Swapping a 2,000 pound battery? Would take far longer than a fast charge.

Remember, just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

It could be done but just isn’t practical.

Oh and you don’t know the pain of designing a car around a standard battery pack.

[Wyzz Kydd]

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/dodge-l...uscle-cars.amp

Now we’re down to one.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/dodge-l...uscle-cars.amp

Now we’re down to one.

Also, Dodge are doing everything in style, masterfully fleecing their 2008 platform the umpteenth time. This includes almost everything they do, from creating and maintaining interest, updating their offerings, changing up the line by introducing new option and powertrain variants, shooting powerful commercials, all the way to now going out with an absolute bang.

I'm sure their "conversion rate" among their faithful HEMI enthusiasts will be way higher—Dodge simply knows better how the game is played, as opposed to gm abandoning the Camaro like it's an embarrassment, not updating anything meaningful for years (decal editions don't count), slowly taking options away, not communicating, unable to provide meaningful order tracking information.

(And no, I don't think we need to hear the hundredth time how this is all irrelevant and switching to all-in EV strategies is what matters and that most sales go to China etc.)

[cooldawg]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/dodge-l...uscle-cars.amp

Now we’re down to one.

Dodge marketing people are on it. “Last call” is a great idea…As is publishing the allocations. All the while GM continues to screw over customers with sold orders, and torture anyone interested in a CE type version of FE V8’s…