[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

It's quick and fast until the batteries go flat, or until you roll it's nearly 4800 pounds of (un-lean) beef out to the nearest roadcourse, then even an SS 1LE kills it

I hate one dimensional cars - and the current crop of EVs will become outdated faster than a Dell laptop

More light and raw please, less pork https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...dr/first-drive

The plaid acceleration doesn't go flat unlike other ev's. Unless you consider a 4.5 sec 60-130 and 100-150 going flat...Its heavy but handles great on the road, a lot better than the my hellcat did. High speed brakes could be better, I'm upgrading the rotors soon. The Tesla S is intended to be a very fast, luxury, all weather family sedan not a track car. I have other cars for that.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Oh yes. Just like how a Q60 will walk away from a Camaro SS at a dead stop but go from a roll and the AWD quickness disappears for the Q60.

Exactly

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

The plaid acceleration doesn't go flat unlike other ev's. Unless you consider a 4.5 sec 60-130 and 100-150 going flat...Its heavy but handles great on the road, a lot better than the my hellcat did. High speed brakes could be better, I'm upgrading the rotors soon. The Tesla S is intended to be a very fast, luxury, all weather family sedan not a track car. I have other cars for that.

Indeed. Elon built the Plaid just to prove a point as it relates to performance. No one can deny the performance of the Model S Plaid and how it just pulls and pulls. I was quite impressed with my Model 3 Performance when I first got it. It definitely makes for a great daily driver that can accelerate fantastic from 0-60mph or so where most driving is done. EVs have a way of accelerating hard but you don't feel like you are dogging on the car as it feels effortless.

My concern is that it didn't keep me entertained for long. I had regret that I sold my C7 Grand Sport M7 for it after about a year. I traded it for the ZL1, which gives up tiny bit on 0-60mph but blows it away in all other metrics and puts a bigger smile on my face. I get excited to hear it start up, the V8 exhaust note, being able to manipulate the gears if I want, drive modes, ability to spin the tires, which you can't do in a Tesla, etc., etc.

I am curious if you feel the same after owning them for a while? Do these Teslas still put a smile on your face once you get used to the instant torque? I just find there is so much character missing from these EVs and Tesla is pretty good as far as performance and handling goes. This has me concerned that automakers will have a very tough time making any performance EV truly exciting to drive. They just feel numb to me.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Twizzty

This is a great video explaining the auto vs manual.

Great video.

By the way, I found it interesting that for 2023 the ZL1 gas guzzler tax actually dropped in price from $1,700 to $1,300. I am curious if they actually tuned or re-tested the 2023 to achieve the MPG in the chart below. I do recall some folks that went from the M6 to the A10 noticed that the A10 based ZL1 tends to consume more fuel than the M6.

The A10 remains gas guzzler tax remains at $2,100.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

EVs have a way of accelerating hard but you don't feel like you are dogging on the car as it feels effortless. My concern is that it didn't keep me entertained for long. I had regret that I sold my C7 Grand Sport M7 for it after about a year.

I am curious if you feel the same after owning them for a while? Do these Teslas still put a smile on your face once you get used to the instant torque? I just find there is so much character missing from these EVs and Tesla is pretty good as far as performance and handling goes. This has me concerned that automakers will have a very tough time making any performance EV truly exciting to drive. They just feel numb to me.

Putting a smile on your face is a highly subjective and transient criterion, they don't have any character at all, but make sense for city driving. On a mountain road it would be a soul killing experience (well, maybe the first time it would be entertaining, strictly as a novelty)

But, again - EVs will become like appliances - they will be out of date FAST as battery technology advances, and no one will want old ones.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Oh yes. Just like how a Q60 will walk away from a Camaro SS at a dead stop but go from a roll and the AWD quickness disappears for the Q60.

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Indeed. Elon built the Plaid just to prove a point as it relates to performance. No one can deny the performance of the Model S Plaid and how it just pulls and pulls. I was quite impressed with my Model 3 Performance when I first got it. It definitely makes for a great daily driver that can accelerate fantastic from 0-60mph or so where most driving is done. EVs have a way of accelerating hard but you don't feel like you are dogging on the car as it feels effortless.

My concern is that it didn't keep me entertained for long. I had regret that I sold my C7 Grand Sport M7 for it after about a year. I traded it for the ZL1, which gives up tiny bit on 0-60mph but blows it away in all other metrics and puts a bigger smile on my face. I get excited to hear it start up, the V8 exhaust note, being able to manipulate the gears if I want, drive modes, ability to spin the tires, which you can't do in a Tesla, etc., etc.

I am curious if you feel the same after owning them for a while? Do these Teslas still put a smile on your face once you get used to the instant torque? I just find there is so much character missing from these EVs and Tesla is pretty good as far as performance and handling goes. This has me concerned that automakers will have a very tough time making any performance EV truly exciting to drive. They just feel numb to me.

Well I've owned my Tesla 3PD since early 2019 and still greatly enjoy it. I've gone through several performance cars (see my signature) and the Tesla has lasted, as It's about as perfect as it gets as a daily driver. Great for that purpose but does lack the visceral experience combustion cars provide during joy rides on the back roads.

I haven't owned the Plaid long but I can say it's literally twice the car my 3 is, everything I wanted the 3 do be and then some. It's the first vehicle ive ever owned that truely impresses me at WOT or at any throttle postition from any speed. It's the kind of straight line acceleration that never gets old and I don't have to worry about breaking shit. The Plaid checks all the boxes for my ultimate family car, as I have a wife and kids to drive around.

There aren't any mountain roads or road cours tracks where I live but as a car enthusiast I still need my weekend toys along side my EV's. We'll see how it goes but I've hardly been driving my gt500 since getting the plaid tbh and may consider selling it soon while the market is hot and getting a c6z if and when the used pricing becomes more reasonable. My Miata stays.

Sorry for derailing the thread.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

Well I've owned my Tesla 3PD since early 2019 and still greatly enjoy it. I've gone through several performance cars (see my signature) and the Tesla has lasted, as It's about as perfect as it gets as a daily driver

I haven't owned the Plaid long but I can say it's literally twice the car my 3 is, everything I wanted the 3 do be and then some. It's the first vehicle ive ever owned that truely impresses me at WOT or at any throttle postition from any speed. It's the kind of straight line acceleration that never gets old and I don't have to worry about breaking shit. The Plaid checks all the boxes for my ultimate family car, as I have a wife and kids to drive around.

As a car enthusiast I still need my weekend toys along side my EV's. We'll see how it goes but I've hardly been driving my gt500 since getting the plaid tbh and may consider selling it soon while the market is hot and getting a c6z if and when the used pricing becomes more reasonable. My Miata stays.

I have owned two Miata NDs and every time I sell one I want to get another. They don’t have much power but the manual is geared so well it still feels pretty quick. The key is how light they are, 2300lbs are it feel like a go kart.

[Mac7504]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

The plaid acceleration doesn't go flat unlike other ev's. Unless you consider a 4.5 sec 60-130 and 100-150 going flat...Its heavy but handles great on the road, a lot better than the my hellcat did. High speed brakes could be better, I'm upgrading the rotors soon. The Tesla S is intended to be a very fast, luxury, all weather family sedan not a track car. I have other cars for that.

Yeah I don't think that's saying much though. To me, and I've driven one, it's slightly better than a fat pig of a golf cart. Only super amazing off the line. Congrats to you but I can't feel it enough to buy into one. I guess I can't get used to the terrible pedal modulation. That's just me though.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Attachment 1104048

This graph is wrong, 5th gear actually revs out in the 170s, not the 190s. See video here where he goes over redline in 5th gear in a 2017 M6 ZL1

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

This graph is wrong, 5th gear actually revs out in the 170s, not the 190s. See video here where he goes over redline in 5th gear in a 2017 M6 ZL1

Yeah, it looks like they used a theoretical max for 5th and 6th. Data was from here.

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/p...e_6-speed.html

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by Mac7504

Yeah I don't think that's saying much though. To me, and I've driven one, it's slightly better than a fat pig of a golf cart. Only super amazing off the line. Congrats to you but I can't feel it enough to buy into one. I guess I can't get used to the terrible pedal modulation. That's just me though.

Lol, not sure what you were expecting? The "accelerative" g-force curve the Plaid provides falls exactly in line with any other car that runs around 150mph in the 1/4 and 4 sec 60-130's. You're not currently going to find anything close from the factory with a warranty, especially in a practical 4-door sedan.
The "super amazing" SOTP feel is the constant 1.2 G's you feel from 0 to around 70. If you need that feel of 1+ G's to carry through 150mph to be impressed (EV or combustion, you're going to need to build an AWD vehicle with SERIOUS power that runs a 2 sec 60-130, 100-150, and that's the reality of it. The cheapest way to go I suppose would be with a nice built turbo liter bike.
The best place to see a ton of other Dragy graphs/g-force accelerometer results to see what I'm talking about and compare is via the Dragy leaderboard.
To me, the Plaid is perfect amount of power for what it is and what I'm looking for.
Definitely just you with the pedal modulation thing.

[ZL1Atlanta]

In terms of 1/4 mile, the difference between the two will be most noticed in the 60’. Even if a driver could shift as quick as an A10 (they won’t), making up .2-.3 on the launch isn’t going to happen. I don’t believe I’ve seen a modded M6 6th gen ZL1 60 better than a high 1.4, while A10’s have done 1.20. Stock for stock might be a little closer.

[Twizzty]

Originally Posted by Mac7504

Yeah I don't think that's saying much though. To me, and I've driven one, it's slightly better than a fat pig of a golf cart. Only super amazing off the line. Congrats to you but I can't feel it enough to buy into one. I guess I can't get used to the terrible pedal modulation. That's just me though.

So you've never driven a plaid then. I was skeptical at first but after a joy ride I was blown away and I could only describe the acceleration from any speed as super amazing. It just doesn't fall off like other performance BEV's.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Twizzty

So you've never driven a plaid then. I was skeptical at first but after a joy ride I was blown away and I could only describe the acceleration from any speed as super amazing. It just doesn't fall off like other performance BEV's.

Indeed. I think performance EVs will get a little more interesting when the Plaid tech trickles down to more affordable models. When you can put an electric motor on each wheel you no longer need LSD/E-diff. You can just manipulate it all in software since you have direct control of each wheel. The key will be in the tuning and how much is exposed to the the consumer. Tuning EVs in the future could be kind of fun but I don't see how they will ever tickle all the senses the way ICE based performance cars do.

I have a feeling the first Dodge E-muscle cars are going to come with a library of exhaust notes that are tied to your right foot. They will replace exhaust and engine sounds with a high quality sound system that replicates the noises.