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Old 03-13-2019, 10:45 AM   #211
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Doc, maybe some of the ones against this thread are 'trust the process' types. It's probably good that the 6th gen refresh differentiated the faces. More would be okay with it if the SS face was part of an optional RS look.

It would be good to show a pony car concept can stretch out to cover the more aggressive expectations (why I brought up wheel well flares). The greenhouse and proportions has to work for all though. You also mentioned trying to work out an interior. It absolutely must show an unhappy 400 lb guy cramped in. For fun.

Some of the anti-pony posts give a scent of MBA-think. So do (other GM forum) posts about: competing with Porsche now, a Portofino next Camaro, the new Blazer as the Camaro crossover, C8 being the start of the Corvette brand. Your thread would never sit well with those types.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:04 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Doc View Post
Thank you to everyone for your interest and participating in the thread!
Thanks for posting your rendering for all to review. Hope you understand I'm just giving some feedback.

You do have some good points and a talent.

Cheers,
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:21 PM   #213
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There will be no more pony car anytime soon. Did you see the trend, GM axing sedans, lots full of cuv and suvs. No end in site for the CUVs & SUVs with customer demand.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:31 PM   #214
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That CUV trend is clear. And with the Al O moving news, one can speculate the next Camaro is canceled. But GM execs have made cars on black budgets before.

Part of the CUV thing is the awd. Why not awd Camaros? On the low price end it's more valuable than IRS and 'tech' gimmicks. It could be the most fun stick awd vehicle. On the high end, it would be more Godzilla-like and more streetable.

I wish GM minions would just admit CAFE makes lame CUVs more profitable for them. They'll milk those cows until the margins are gone and they only have trucks, or are done.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:31 PM   #215
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Wonder how many of those V6 AWD Challengers that FCA has sold?
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:27 AM   #216
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Wonder how many of those V6 AWD Challengers that FCA has sold?
Good question. The rust belt pushes to a level of pragmatism. For me, I'd also rather not daily drive a large car. A used ATS coupe would be better. It'd have to get de-badged and probably more.

Doc didn't mention awd though. And I posted too much in a previous thread of his.

Changing gears, do the aggressive look guys realize how aggressive the 4th gen was considered at that time? I half remember Lutz saying (not looking it up now) the issue with cars like that is you need half the whole model run's demand made right away. Please correct if the quote's wrong here.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:10 AM   #217
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I completely understand not wanting to DD a large car. Or, these days, drive a car as large as the Challenger/Charger at all. ATS would be a good size, just not a good price (then again, the ATS is a Cadillac).

Compared to today's alien-creature faces, the 4th gen F-body was merely bold. Significantly different from its 3rd gen predecessor without needing a menacing I'm-gonna-eat-you-alive attitude to hammer the point across to the otherwise clueless.

Unless your model line is almost entirely AWD-only with a lot of the bits common across different platforms and even generations, I'd question the chances of fitting AWD into a $25k price point.


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Old 03-14-2019, 10:18 AM   #218
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I have to agree about AWD. I don't see how that would be doable as a standard feature at the $25k price point. In addition, not everyone needs or wants it so I'd make it possibly as an option. My 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia has AWD (I now live in an area that gets real winters) and it was an extra grand if I remember right. Daily driving a big vehicle isn't something I want to do either. My Giulia is just the right size. Depending on where you live and what your commute is like, a pony car can actually make a very good DD.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:31 AM   #219
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living in central florida,my 5th gen RS is a good daily driver.i have had smaller cars in the past but most of them lacked legroom.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:33 PM   #220
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I realized after a comment I had made, as to who this car was aimed at that I wouldn't buy it myself, I began to wonder why and why not? My conclusion was that it was just a bit too soft as far as body lines. So I've been reworking things to give it a bit more edge, and a more substantial presence.

There are a LOT of changes on this version. I lowered the roof an inch; widened the cabin a couple of inches; reworked the entire front end. The part above the body seam is okay, but the front below the seam still needs some work. I put a 1 inch ridge along the top of the entire body side from front to back to literally give it some edge. I made a lot of adjustments to the back, including adding a ducktail to the upper part that's part of the body itself; not an add-on spoiler. I also noticed that at some point somehow I managed to increase the size of the exhaust pipes to be 3.3 inches. Don't have any idea how or when that happened. Obviously that's a ridiculous size pipe for a turbo 4 or 6, and that wouldn't even be on an 8. I resized them down to 2.75 inches which is much more realistic.

I made the overall stance of the car look a little more "down to the ground". The front grille area is hard to show in a picture, but the area at the bottom of the grille extends outward a good amount. I pulled the top of the grille area back quite a bit. I'm still deciding what to do about headlights; I just have one stuck in there for reference. I still have more work to do on the lower front, including brake cooling ducts.

I like this version better. Has the appearance of more substance to it. The ducktail on the back is a toss-up. What do you guys think? Too much? Not enough? Too retro?

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Old 03-15-2019, 08:23 PM   #221
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Been watching this read for a while, and I think Iíve figured out why youíre not getting a big response.
I think you are taking the opposite approach to your design than you need. It seems like you are starting with the affordable lower-end design and trying to spice it up. Thatís the equivalent of plucking a kid from the suburbs, putting gangsta clothes on him and dropping him in the projects. Sure he might have some of the look, but you can just tell it BS underneath.
IMHO, there are two truths in car design: 1) any design has to evoke emotion to be appealing, and 2) All visual impact of a car starts with the wheels.
Think about all the designs over the years that have been called beautiful or memorable. They all had designs that picked up the impact of the wheels and brought it into the body style. Swoopy fender lines, body lines that picked up the ďmotionĒ of the wheels and exaggerated it, etc. These things cause emotions in the viewer. 3rd gen Corvettes (which were terribly executed but people still loved them), Jaguar XKs, Aston Martin DBs, the list is long. The 6th gen Camaro has this to a much more subtle effect, but itís there. Iím not getting that vibe when I look at yours.
I would go the other way: create a really emotional design that, for lack of a less corny description, stirs your soul. Something that looks like it just has to be fast without even starting the engine. Then start toning that down if necessary to get it affordable. By starting with the objective of creating an affordable design, you created a glass ceiling for yourself that no amount of duckbills and ground effects is going to fix.
Donít quit, just reinvent yourself. 👍😀
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:28 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
I realized after a comment I had made, as to who this car was aimed at that I wouldn't buy it myself, I began to wonder why and why not? My conclusion was that it was just a bit too soft as far as body lines. So I've been reworking things to give it a bit more edge, and a more substantial presence.

There are a LOT of changes on this version. I lowered the roof an inch; widened the cabin a couple of inches; reworked the entire front end. The part above the body seam is okay, but the front below the seam still needs some work. I put a 1 inch ridge along the top of the entire body side from front to back to literally give it some edge. I made a lot of adjustments to the back, including adding a ducktail to the upper part that's part of the body itself; not an add-on spoiler. I also noticed that at some point somehow I managed to increase the size of the exhaust pipes to be 3.3 inches. Don't have any idea how or when that happened. Obviously that's a ridiculous size pipe for a turbo 4 or 6, and that wouldn't even be on an 8. I resized them down to 2.75 inches which is much more realistic.

I made the overall stance of the car look a little more "down to the ground". The front grille area is hard to show in a picture, but the area at the bottom of the grille extends outward a good amount. I pulled the top of the grille area back quite a bit. I'm still deciding what to do about headlights; I just have one stuck in there for reference. I still have more work to do on the lower front, including brake cooling ducts.

I like this version better. Has the appearance of more substance to it. The ducktail on the back is a toss-up. What do you guys think? Too much? Not enough? Too retro?

Attachment 978698
Attachment 978699
Attachment 978700
Attachment 978701
I just noticed it has Camaro badge on the side.
Since your talking about it being a new Pony car you need to come up with a name
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:40 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
I realized after a comment I had made, as to who this car was aimed at that I wouldn't buy it myself, I began to wonder why and why not? My conclusion was that it was just a bit too soft as far as body lines. So I've been reworking things to give it a bit more edge, and a more substantial presence.

There are a LOT of changes on this version. I lowered the roof an inch; widened the cabin a couple of inches; reworked the entire front end. The part above the body seam is okay, but the front below the seam still needs some work. I put a 1 inch ridge along the top of the entire body side from front to back to literally give it some edge. I made a lot of adjustments to the back, including adding a ducktail to the upper part that's part of the body itself; not an add-on spoiler. I also noticed that at some point somehow I managed to increase the size of the exhaust pipes to be 3.3 inches. Don't have any idea how or when that happened. Obviously that's a ridiculous size pipe for a turbo 4 or 6, and that wouldn't even be on an 8. I resized them down to 2.75 inches which is much more realistic.

I made the overall stance of the car look a little more "down to the ground". The front grille area is hard to show in a picture, but the area at the bottom of the grille extends outward a good amount. I pulled the top of the grille area back quite a bit. I'm still deciding what to do about headlights; I just have one stuck in there for reference. I still have more work to do on the lower front, including brake cooling ducts.

I like this version better. Has the appearance of more substance to it. The ducktail on the back is a toss-up. What do you guys think? Too much? Not enough? Too retro?

Attachment 978698
Attachment 978699
Attachment 978700
Attachment 978701
Sorry, now it looks 3/4 like a Challenger from the side with a Camaro styled front cap that looks too small.
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:05 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le View Post
Who cares about sales , if sales mattered I would have been driving a Chrysler K car . 1982 Camaro year is the worst ever by far .
That's because they didn't intro the new-for-1982 model until Spring. I know, I bought one.

I ordered it as a carb'd 4MT and waited and waited and waited. Kept getting stalled by the dealer. Talked to factory rep who said they ran out of 4MT trannys, so I switched to 3AT - delivered in early August. What I didn't find out until Oct, was that they were phasing out the 4MT for a 5MT with O/D, they also put a 4AT with O/D...
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