[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

Blaq -
Already thinking about modding?
Palm Beach Dyno seems to have the tuning dialed in for the Shelby.
I haven't researched it a ton however, there may be better shops out there.

Stock for stock and mod for mod the GT500 is clearly the straight-line (especially highway roll racing) king out of these 3 cars especially top end by a sizeable amount.
If you dont believe it, go on YouTube and search "can i be frank" or "auto glory" and you will see tons vids of stock and modded 20+ GT500's punching well above its weight gapping modded and stock cars. Very clean and fair real world highway roll racing mostly starting at 60mph. The results even surprise me as a Shelby owner.
Like I said before I'm much more into straight-line performance.




At the end of the day which is better is mostly subjective. There are technical reasons the DCT is supposedly better but unlikely you and I can discern the tangible differences (as you mentioned earlier). You'd have to install the DCT in the ZL1 and the A10 in the GT500 with pro drivers to prove which is truly better. The biggest ding for me about the DCT is how expensive it is if something breaks and you are modded without warranty.

For me the A10 didn't seem particularly any more impressive than the A8 in the Hellcat either; but, the DCT immediately impressed me and was more fun to operate particularly the paddle response and the way the shifts feel even.
I guess if you don't care about that stuff I can see your standpoint.
I never track my cars and mostly go by sotp and fun factor as my judgment gauge. At the end of the day it's how it all comes together and how it feels on the street for me.

I am always thinking about modding. PBD is a good company but I prefer Evolution as they do really good work and are only about an hour and a half from me. They did the LTs on my 18 GT and they gave me a decent quote for some mods on the GT500 that can put me close to 900 RWHP. IF I decide to go with it then they are the ones I'll use.

[BlaqWhole]

After over 6 months of not driving the GT I finally got it up and running and drove it around yesterday. And I gotta say, there is absolutely no comparing the GT to the GT500. They are completely different cars that share nothing other than chassis. The Shelby is worlds apart from the GT. I used to get a thrill out of the GT. But after driving the Shelby around I can say the GT does nothing for me anymore. I am considering selling it. But also I might just turn it into a track car...or maybe just mod the heck out of it like I originally planned and leave the Shelby stock. or maybe just hold onto it for now and see what the S650 has to offer and do a trade in.

[BlaqWhole]

And this is why you don't pay markups. The GT500 is getting a significant price increase.


https://carbuzz.com/news/2022-ford-m...price-increase

[crysalis_01]

A 4.1% increase is indeed notable. People will buy them though, I suppose it's just the free market doing it's thing. I think there's a saying along the lines of "A thing is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. No more, and no less." about this type of issue.

Who am I to argue with capitalism?

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And this is why you don't pay markups. The GT500 is getting a significant price increase.


https://carbuzz.com/news/2022-ford-m...price-increase

And apparently it's going up yet another $2,000 in a few days (April 14th).

Mustang6G Mustang Price Increases

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

And apparently it's going up yet another $2,000 in a few days (April 14th).

Mustang6G Mustang Price Increases

Yes you are correct. Without any additional items tacked on the MSRP comes out to $78,350.

The ZL1 with no additional items except A10 trans (for comparative purposes) comes out to $67,790 MSRP. However it should be noted that the ZL1 does not come with heated/cooled seats from the factory at this time according to the site. You have to have them added on after delivery at the dealership.

The standard Hellcat with auto trans and adding in the package with blind spot notifications come out to MSRP of $72,305.

So the GT500 is $6,045 more expensive than the standard comparably equipped HC and $10,560 more expensive than the comparably equipped Zl1. I believe there is no more CF package for the GT500. So adding the 1LE to the ZL1 puts the MSRP at $75,290 which is still $3,060 cheaper than the Shelby.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And this is why you don't pay markups. The GT500 is getting a significant price increase.


https://carbuzz.com/news/2022-ford-m...price-increase

Good point; however, unless you have connections, get super lucky or find a lemon, the GT500 just isn't attainable without paying some sort of ADM (new or used). The key is paying the lowest markup you can find. I'm not selling but there is a local dealership that wants to give me $85k for my 20' GT500 with 3800 miles, base with every option besides CFTP. I bought mine for $85495 late 2020...If you can find one for <$5k over msrp new or used even, that is considered a great deal, as there are people out there buying them for 10K-20k over msrp . Used values aren't going to change with the GT500 going out of production.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

A 4.1% increase is indeed notable. People will buy them though, I suppose it's just the free market doing it's thing. I think there's a saying along the lines of "A thing is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. No more, and no less." about this type of issue.

Who am I to argue with capitalism?

Do you think people will still buy them at inflated prices now that the novelty has worn down some? And while it is an example of capitalism, it is also an example of shooting yourself in the foot. I said from the start that the MSRP was going to increase if people kept paying markups. And it has increased quite a bit. It would be something if people didn't complain about the price increase. But seeing as how a lot of them are upset about it I would say that they did just that, shot themselves in the foot. Capitalism or not, it is NEVER a good idea to overpay for something whether you can afford it or not. All it does is encourage the seller to keep raising the price and putting more money in their pocket while taking it from yours and all for offering the same product.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

Good point; however, unless you have connections, get super lucky or find a lemon, the GT500 just isn't attainable without paying some sort of ADM (new or used). The key is paying the lowest markup you can find. I'm not selling but there is a local dealership that wants to give me $85k for my 20' GT500 with 3800 miles, base with every option besides CFTP. I bought mine for $85495 late 2020...If you can find one for <$5k over msrp new or used even, that is considered a great deal, as there are people out there buying them for 10K-20k over msrp . Used values aren't going to change with the GT500 going out of production.

I got mine at original MSRP and it had about 6500 miles. They were trying to sell it for more. However I told them the terms for which I would buy it for (vehicle price, monthly price, total months, etc) and told them I would only accept an outside deal if it was better. It helped that I had my own financing already and the terms were already outlined based on what MSRP was and everything else. At the price I got mine there was another GT500 but it did not have the Handling Package and had way more miles. There was another one with similar miles and the handling package but it was a lemon buyback. I think I mentioned them when I was shopping around. So I figure I got a decent deal considering that there were other people in the groups I frequent who bought these cars (also with similar miles and the Handling Package) for anywhere from $5K to $10K more than what I paid for mine. The only thing I did not like is the color. I have too many black vehicles now. I might see about adding some exterior accents to it so it can stand out.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I got mine at original MSRP and it had about 6500 miles. They were trying to sell it for more. However I told them the terms for which I would buy it for (vehicle price, monthly price, total months, etc) and told them I would only accept an outside deal if it was better. It helped that I had my own financing already and the terms were already outlined based on what MSRP was and everything else. At the price I got mine there was another GT500 but it did not have the Handling Package and had way more miles. There was another one with similar miles and the handling package but it was a lemon buyback. I think I mentioned them when I was shopping around. So I figure I got a decent deal considering that there were other people in the groups I frequent who bought these cars (also with similar miles and the Handling Package) for anywhere from $5K to $10K more than what I paid for mine. The only thing I did not like is the color. I have too many black vehicles now. I might see about adding some exterior accents to it so it can stand out.

That's a great deal!!
I bought mine (base with every option, technically used) for just under $5k over msrp. It only had 375 miles on it and Ford Certified. I pretty much did the same as you, coming in with my own financing and saying I was shopping around- which I was. They were originally asking $92k and I talked them down to $85k. They wouldn't budge from there even after me leaving saying $85k was too much. Not being able to find a better price elsewhere at the time I came back 2 weeks later and bought it.

[BlaqWhole]

After a bunch more driving I have come to notice a lot of differences between the GT500 and my other cars.

1 - Steering wheel: It feels a bit weird. In my other cars the steering wheel turns until it hits it's max turn and stops. This car it feels like there is some play in the steering wheel when turning it all the way to one side or the other. It doesn't come to a hard stop like the other cars. Rather, it's like it just slowly turns more but then it doesn't hit a max turn but it feels like it can keep turning or something. It is kinda weird. I'm not sure if that's just one of it's things or if it might need to go in and get looked at.

2 - Throttle input: As you all know, I am a huge fan of the A10 trans. The difference between the ZL1, GT, and GT500 comparing what I remember when each was stock...the ZL1 and A10 were quicker off their feet with less throttle input. At the same input the GT500 feels rather sluggish and lazy. And after driving it all this time I can see why a lot of cars can beat it off the line. Again, I really feel that with this power, the A10 would have been a better all around choice for this car. Even going from no throttle to nailing it coming out of a turn or as a light is turning green, the GT and ZL1 both needed very little input before they downshifted and took off. The GT500 needs a heavier foot and even then it takes a while to build up the revs before it starts making power. This is not really the car for light to light action. Perhaps after some extensive mods and a good tune it will be much better.

3 - Roll on: That is where this car shines. Coming thru an off ramp and hitting the straight section on the GSP and nailing the pedal, this thing blasted off and didn't want to stop pulling. As it sits now, it might not be the king at light to light interactions. But I doubt many other vehicles out there will match it's top end charge. Ford got it right in this regards.

4 - Suspension: Again, another area where the GT500 shines. I said it before, but it does really hug the road and doesn't let go. There is no comparison between this car and the GT500 as far as this is concerned. Some light suspension mods and lowering it should make it handle even better than the Zl1.

5 - Brakes: Another area that Ford got right. The brakes feel powerful and inspire a lot of confidence. There is a huge difference between it and the GT. But I would say it is on the same level with the Zl1 and HC.

6 - Comfort: Man this is a very comfortable car...until you hit some bumps. But all my cars are about the same. Driving it around is very relaxing and compliments all the power it has.

Again, the trans is my biggest gripe with this car. And it isn't a Ford thing. It is just a DCT thing. I think when it came to the older transmissions (the A6s and M6s) the 7 sp DCT was by far superior. But I gotta say, the A10s really evened things up if not surpassed the 7D as far as overall driving is concerned. Maybe the 7D is better on a track. I don't know for sure. But just for every day driving, the A10 is a much more fun to drive trans that responds quicker and downshifts with less input and sends you off. At the same input I'm literally sitting there waiting for something to happen and the GT500 just hums along and nothing happens. But when you mash it it goes into warp speed soo fast that it looks like your racing or speeding. There doesn't seem to be an inbetween. Like in my GT some light pedal and I can accelerate decently without looking crazy. That is what the Shelby lacks.

Basically I'll have to get to modding this thing to see how it reacts when there is much more power available. And if someone from the aftermarket does develop a beefed up version of the A10 then I might consider that as a swap. but for now, since I'm now aware of how to extract more power out of it, I can make due with it.

Ultimately tho, for every day street performance and all around fun and track duty, the ZL1 is king. I say this all the time. But GM really did a spectacular job when it comes to these cars. The fact that they packed as much performance as they did into this car and then kept the price far under the competition and then built it so that even several years later it can still compete with cars on a much higher level says a lot. None of this takes away from the GT500 or HC. But from owning all 3, my favorite is still the ZL1. But that could all change once the GT500 is pumping out 800+ RWHP!!

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

After a bunch more driving I have come to notice a lot of differences between the GT500 and my other cars.

1 - Steering wheel: It feels a bit weird. In my other cars the steering wheel turns until it hits it's max turn and stops. This car it feels like there is some play in the steering wheel when turning it all the way to one side or the other. It doesn't come to a hard stop like the other cars. Rather, it's like it just slowly turns more but then it doesn't hit a max turn but it feels like it can keep turning or something. It is kinda weird. I'm not sure if that's just one of it's things or if it might need to go in and get looked at.

2 - Throttle input: As you all know, I am a huge fan of the A10 trans. The difference between the ZL1, GT, and GT500 comparing what I remember when each was stock...the ZL1 and A10 were quicker off their feet with less throttle input. At the same input the GT500 feels rather sluggish and lazy. And after driving it all this time I can see why a lot of cars can beat it off the line. Again, I really feel that with this power, the A10 would have been a better all around choice for this car. Even going from no throttle to nailing it coming out of a turn or as a light is turning green, the GT and ZL1 both needed very little input before they downshifted and took off. The GT500 needs a heavier foot and even then it takes a while to build up the revs before it starts making power. This is not really the car for light to light action. Perhaps after some extensive mods and a good tune it will be much better.

3 - Roll on: That is where this car shines. Coming thru an off ramp and hitting the straight section on the GSP and nailing the pedal, this thing blasted off and didn't want to stop pulling. As it sits now, it might not be the king at light to light interactions. But I doubt many other vehicles out there will match it's top end charge. Ford got it right in this regards.

4 - Suspension: Again, another area where the GT500 shines. I said it before, but it does really hug the road and doesn't let go. There is no comparison between this car and the GT500 as far as this is concerned. Some light suspension mods and lowering it should make it handle even better than the Zl1.

5 - Brakes: Another area that Ford got right. The brakes feel powerful and inspire a lot of confidence. There is a huge difference between it and the GT. But I would say it is on the same level with the Zl1 and HC.

6 - Comfort: Man this is a very comfortable car...until you hit some bumps. But all my cars are about the same. Driving it around is very relaxing and compliments all the power it has.

Again, the trans is my biggest gripe with this car. And it isn't a Ford thing. It is just a DCT thing. I think when it came to the older transmissions (the A6s and M6s) the 7 sp DCT was by far superior. But I gotta say, the A10s really evened things up if not surpassed the 7D as far as overall driving is concerned. Maybe the 7D is better on a track. I don't know for sure. But just for every day driving, the A10 is a much more fun to drive trans that responds quicker and downshifts with less input and sends you off. At the same input I'm literally sitting there waiting for something to happen and the GT500 just hums along and nothing happens. But when you mash it it goes into warp speed soo fast that it looks like your racing or speeding. There doesn't seem to be an inbetween. Like in my GT some light pedal and I can accelerate decently without looking crazy. That is what the Shelby lacks.

Basically I'll have to get to modding this thing to see how it reacts when there is much more power available. And if someone from the aftermarket does develop a beefed up version of the A10 then I might consider that as a swap. but for now, since I'm now aware of how to extract more power out of it, I can make due with it.

Ultimately tho, for every day street performance and all around fun and track duty, the ZL1 is king. I say this all the time. But GM really did a spectacular job when it comes to these cars. The fact that they packed as much performance as they did into this car and then kept the price far under the competition and then built it so that even several years later it can still compete with cars on a much higher level says a lot. None of this takes away from the GT500 or HC. But from owning all 3, my favorite is still the ZL1. But that could all change once the GT500 is pumping out 800+ RWHP!!

Nice overview, thanks for the additional details. The sluggishness you've experienced may be fixable with a tune, especially if it's really throttle input related and not stemming from a hardware limitation in the transmission.

[BlaqWhole]

Clarification:

The 7 DCT shifts faster than the A10. By how much I don't know. However the advantage of the A10 is that with all those gears, it requires less throttle input to downshift into a gear where it can build more boost and blast off. The 7 DCT requires much more input. Like, significantly more to get the same desired effect. I wonder if that extra input needed (pressing the gas pedal in more) actually neutralizes whatever shifting advantage the 7 DCT enjoys over the A10. Or if it minimizes the advantage. Also the A10 can be geared more aggressively or given a more aggressive street tune. I feel that stock for stock, the GT is actually tuned more aggressively in Sport Mode than the GT500 is in the same mode.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Clarification:

The 7 DCT shifts faster than the A10. By how much I don't know. However the advantage of the A10 is that with all those gears, it requires less throttle input to downshift into a gear where it can build more boost and blast off. The 7 DCT requires much more input. Like, significantly more to get the same desired effect. I wonder if that extra input needed (pressing the gas pedal in more) actually neutralizes whatever shifting advantage the 7 DCT enjoys over the A10. Or if it minimizes the advantage. Also the A10 can be geared more aggressively or given a more aggressive street tune. I feel that stock for stock, the GT is actually tuned more aggressively in Sport Mode than the GT500 is in the same mode.

I understand your frustration driving the DCT like an auto.
The only way to remediate this is by shifting yourself via the paddles to get the desired immediate up and downshifts. The DCT paddle shift response is faster reacting than the A10 shifts shifted via the paddles.
I only let the DCT shift automatically when warming the car up and occasionally while cruising on the highway; other than that I exclusively shift myself via the paddles.
If I could only drive my GT500 DCT like an auto, I probably wouldn't own this car, but hey that's me.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

After a bunch more driving I have come to notice a lot of differences between the GT500 and my other cars.

3 - Roll on: That is where this car shines. Coming thru an off ramp and hitting the straight section on the GSP and nailing the pedal, this thing blasted off and didn't want to stop pulling. As it sits now, it might not be the king at light to light interactions. But I doubt many other vehicles out there will match it's top end charge. Ford got it right in this regards.

6 - Comfort: Man this is a very comfortable car...until you hit some bumps. But all my cars are about the same. Driving it around is very relaxing and compliments all the power it has.

Regarding the GT500 from a roll - there currently isn't a factory stock car that has faster acceleration (60mph+) in this price range than the GT500.

I feel another aspect of comfort the GT500 has over the ZL1 (coupe) is the more open interior feel and superior visibility.

/