[SteevK]

Originally Posted by Boost Creep

GM's marketing/advertising ineptitude is hardly new.
When I was shopping a '06 GTO 12 years ago, a Pontiac salesman lamented how they had a great little car in the showroom (G5), but no one knew about it. He didn't understand why GM didn't advertise their products.
I was looking at GTO's but never heard of the G5 even though it was just the new Sunfire with a different name.

I had a similar experience at a Mitsu dealer, back in the '90s. I had spoken to the salesman on the phone, and THOUGHT I made it very clear I was ONLY interested in a GSX (AWD turbo) w/auto. He said they had a few, come on down. So, I drove the 30 miles to this dealer, and he had no GSX, and only a FWD Eclipse Turbo with a 5-speed (and a few base models, but they counted even less).

He then tried to sell me a 3000 GT, "It's MT Car of the Year" but it was an SL (no turbo, no AWD), not VR4, so I unloaded on him in a showroom full of (potential) customers. I don't understand how when I called with such a specific request, he'd think I knew nothing about the brand's models, and that I'd spend about 60% more than I intended on a FWD poser of a car like that!

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

GM has a nasty reputation for poor design and not taking care of their customers when the design flaw surfaces. The cracking dashed on 2007-2013 Chevy and GMC trucks. At a mere 47k miles the dash in my truck was cracking all to hell. It was a year out of warranty and Chevrolets claim is that
"It's only cosmetic" and they refused to replace it. Think about the thousands of pissed off owners that will never again buy a GM product as a result of GM's attitude toward the future customer. This is the old GM here and it is a part of what killed them in the first place. Thinking Americans are going to buy a Chinese built Chevy is pretty damned stupid if you ask me.

Thats not just Chevy problem...all car companies will avoid a design flaw to save money. Toyota is famous for that. There pickups in the 80s and 90s had front axles spindles that were snapping in two going down the road. The problem was hidden because it got little air time if any, it was a commonly known issue with those who actually bought the vehicle and experienced the failure. Toyota has had many other design flaws but the media must have been told to shutup about them.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Glen e

I think this is a very interesting discussion with all sorts of points of view, but I think the reason the Camaro is not doing so well is two things; the market rejecting muscle cars in general, and the fact that this is the first car the GM wanted to compete with the higher cost European sports sedans which sell in larger volumes. In everything you read from GM for the last four years is this chassis is totally different, competes with the euros, and is a much better handling car in addition to the power.

And for whatever reason, the market has rejected that move, and still considers the Camaro a muscle car. I don't have a single friend in the upper middle class or that makes over 100 grand that would consider a Camaro , yet they own every conceivable Mercedes BMW jaguar etc. etc. for years. I think it's almost impossible to "rebrand" a heritage marque like Camaro that has been known for so long to be a muscle car.

Not saying I like it, but I think that's the way this is.

And if Chevy had built a car that did not out perform the Euro car then people would be binching about not buying because it doesn't perform as well. Like I said people today can't be pleased. The new American breed won't truly be happy until GM, Ford and Chryslers are all gone and everything we consume is dependent on foreign companies, not stopping to realize once dependent we will always be dependent. We will be under the thumb of an entity who then dictate to us what we buy, and at what cost and be able to shut off the spicket at anytime to control us.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by CCG Garnet Red

Right on point. GM and Ford are just giving up the car mrkt to foreign nameplates. I live in a small NE MS town and the closest new dealerships are 30 to 45 minutes away. There are still small cars everywhere, but they are Hondas, Hyundai, Nissan, Toyotas, even Suburu, etc. Many are now made at non-union plants in the South. Most people don't even know or care where they are built or care where the profits go. They buy based on price, financing, and styling. GM and Ford don't want to compete. Just produce pickups, SUV's, and CUE's and as many in Mexico as possible! Most buyers of the new "Blazer", ( prediction: it will just canniblize sells of Equinox and Traverse), will not know or care that it is made in country that takes our jobs and sends many of their problems. I dare say the majority of Silverado buyers have no idea a big % of them are made in Mexico at the same sticker price. The Buy American ship sailed years ago as we sold our manufacturing souls to have China own us and use to profits to threaten us and our allies militarily. GM and Ford will no longer exist in 25 or so years.

What you say is true. Sad

[90503]

TV commercials needed? Maybe, but this one is probably politically incorrect and Chevy would get sued for using it...lol...

It's not too late...Buy Made in USA as much as possible....Things can turn around, in spite of current GM management. Boycott imported Blazers and Silverados…

[90503]

….Nice...About time...Enough is enough...

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/01/...vrolet-blazer/

[hotlap]

Free trade must also be fair trade.
Legal immigration based on skills and national need.
Sounds reasonable.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by SteevK

'85 IROC, I had one of them, and a 1987. 215HP? must have been a 350? Both of mine were 305s. 85 was used - ran into a guy who said he used to own it, until it was TOTALED! He even ID'd a hidden cigarette burn...

Dealer wouldn't take it back, wasn't worth fighting them in court, so I traded in on '86 Buick GN - which got STOLEN (AFTER I had Rancho susp kit installed). waited 30 days and bought '87 IROC Demo. A couple weeks later, cops called to say they found my GN - wrapped around a pole in The Badlands. I had it towed to my apt, but ins co wouldn't let me buy the wreck, 'cause it was a theft. Tried all wkend to get cherry picker to get that motor & trans, for my IROC. I would have had a Turbo F-body 2 years before Pontiac 20th anniv pace car...

The '80s were not good to me

Got SO tired of Chevy cheating me on warranty service ("...well, when you have an ultra-HP car like this, you can't expect...") that, when Eclipse GSX came out I was ready for a change. Bought 4 of them (3 new - one was Eagle Talon, but same car underneath, and one used in 2002) Then G35, G37. 28 years of driving Japanese cars.

GM service seems to be better - at least at my local dealer

"85 Camaro offered the TPI which was rated higher than the 4bbl. It was a 305

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

Thats not just Chevy problem...all car companies will avoid a design flaw to save money. Toyota is famous for that. There pickups in the 80s and 90s had front axles spindles that were snapping in two going down the road. The problem was hidden because it got little air time if any, it was a commonly known issue with those who actually bought the vehicle and experienced the failure. Toyota has had many other design flaws but the media must have been told to shutup about them.

Up until now I would never consider buying anything but Chevy. I might consider a Ford but never an Import. Ever......
Chevy needs to stand behind it's known design flaws when they appear. That is how you get repeat customers.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Mighty Mouce

We all need to look around and face some really hard facts here. America is at a crossroads. Trump knows it. Thats why he is trying to bring Manufacturing back to the US as we got sold out years ago with NAFTA and even before that. The fact we all must face is a country with a dying manufacturing base is a dying country. The US is dying, its up to us to save it. But I honestly think at this point we have people who just don't really give a damn as long as the save a dime and buy what people say you should be buying. Maybe 25 years from now they will wake up when its too late.

Sad but true. American tree huggers are bringing down the house and the public can't see past the end of their noses.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by 90503

TV commercials needed? Maybe, but this one is probably politically incorrect and Chevy would get sued for using it...lol...

It's not too late...Buy Made in USA as much as possible....Things can turn around, in spite of current GM management. Boycott imported Blazers and Silverados…

How dare those people show love for America! WTF is wrong with Them!

[Frisbey]

Originally Posted by Doc

There's a lot more to what happened to this country's manufacturing than just price.

This^^^^^

People try and blame or shift the argument to make it political, and to a certain extent, political policies do play a role,

But,
The real issue is understanding economics which most people don’t.

We as a country would rather save 25 cents on a pair of socks from Walmart than buy an American product. Just an example!

Here’s a crude example of our reality,
Imagine the TOTAL wealth in America fitting in a bucket,
Every time we buy something from out of this country, be it labor or products without having an equal reciprocal purchase, the total in the bucket shrinks!

Here’s the hard question, what happens when the bucket is empty?
.
.
.
There is only one answer to that question, and your not going to like it!
Btw, the bucket is getting closer and closer to empty!

It’s unfortunate our schools don’t teach real world economics any more.

As Doc said, there’s a lot more to it, but the short term benefit of cheap products from overseas, has a devastating long term effect, something we all need to understand, especially our politicians!

Rant over.
Long live the Camaro!

[CamaroSS50]

A free market.

Well sort of free.

Hard to be free with the government arbitrarily mandating a minimum wage.
Hard to be free with the government writing tons of regulations.
Hard to be free when the government gets involved in picking winners or losers in any industry.

But it serves the consumer well to purchase the best they can at the lowest price they can.

30+ years ago, US auto was creating garbage. The Japanese competition woke them up. Car refreshes and innovation boomed at the threat of these foreign companies.

The biggest issue has always been the unions. Once necessary when there were no laws to protect workers. Completely unneeded for decades.

How can GM & Ford compete effectively against Toyota & BMW where they do not allow unions? They can't.

Why is GM moving to Mexico? No Unions.

Aside from our Federal government putting the squeeze on companies, then you have local government doing the same thing.

Heck, Hollywood shoots outside of CA as often as they can, why? It costs too much.

In order to restore our manufacturing, it isn't the consumer who has to make the change, it is the States, Fed and companies who need to stop squeezing companies, making things impossible to make anything.

Originally Posted by Frisbey

This^^^^^

People try and blame or shift the argument to make it political, and to a certain extent, political policies do play a role,

But,
The real issue is understanding economics which most people don’t.

We as a country would rather save 25 cents on a pair of socks from Walmart than buy an American product. Just an example!

Here’s a crude example of our reality,
Imagine the TOTAL wealth in America fitting in a bucket,
Every time we buy something from out of this country, be it labor or products without having an equal reciprocal purchase, the total in the bucket shrinks!

Here’s the hard question, what happens when the bucket is empty?
.
.
.
There is only one answer to that question, and your not going to like it!
Btw, the bucket is getting closer and closer to empty!

It’s unfortunate our schools don’t teach real world economics any more.

As Doc said, there’s a lot more to it, but the short term benefit of cheap products from overseas, has a devastating long term effect, something we all need to understand, especially our politicians!

Rant over.
Long live the Camaro!

[18LTLoveIt]

In theater today saw a Silverado ad (no real people) real good commercial. Previous theater was real people & then real people with Gators. Could this be encouraging?