[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

So, I’m back at LID today. I don’t know if they’ve done the track repairs that were mentioned in my earlier post, but my times so far today are a lot better than where this discussion started. 12.15 to 12.24. Pay little attention to the reaction times on the slips where I ran alone. No pressure = concentrate on 60’. I’ll put it all together when I get someone in the other lane...I hope.

My target with the mods is under 12.00. Within reach with some 60’ improvement..

This discussion really belongs in the drag threads, but since I started it here with the GT500 discussion, I figured I’d close the loop before taking it over there.

Getting better, that 117 trap speed is closer to what I was thinking you'd get with your mods.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

The LE model is slower in 1/4 mile and 0-60 am I correct due to weight? I know it's very small though but if I was doing just strictly drag racing wouldn't an Lt1 stripper be the best option?

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

The LE model is slower in 1/4 mile and 0-60 am I correct due to weight? I know it's very small though but if I was doing just strictly drag racing wouldn't an Lt1 stripper be the best option?

His car is a convertible, so around 200 pounds heavier than a coupe.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

The LE model is slower in 1/4 mile and 0-60 am I correct due to weight? I know it's very small though but if I was doing just strictly drag racing wouldn't an Lt1 stripper be the best option?

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

His car is a convertible, so around 200 pounds heavier than a coupe.

The 1LE is rated marginally slower 0-60 and quarter mile than the SS, comparing M6 coupe to M6 coupe. Not sure that the marginally slower time is due to mass, though. I think it is more likely due to the wider, stickier tires that are better suited for track than dragstrip.

And yes, if CamaroSSStlfan is referring to my times, it’s a convertible and it is not strictly for drag racing. When I shopped for the car, my priorities were

1. Convertible
2. V8
3. GM (because discount 👍&#127998

The drag racing and mods are “because I can”, as opposed to buying the car for that specific reason. I’d rather spend more time on road course tracks, but most of the tracks near me (actually all of them) don’t allow convertibles unless they have a roll cage installed, and that ain’t happenin’. If I had prioritized road course tracking I would have bought a 1LE.

[Roscoe1492]

So out of a combination of boredom/curiosity/”grass is greener” feelings I went up to a local Ford dealership this afternoon that has a CPO Grabber Lime GT500 with an advertised 6k Miles (more on that later).

Since I showed up with the ZL1 the sales manager let me really give the car a decent flogging. Below are my everyman thoughts:

Pros:

- The DCT is very fast
- The view from the cockpit with the giant vent is pretty badass
- The car looks cool (subjective)
- The car sounds better than the ZL1 stock (subjective)
- It hooks better than I was expecting, a lot better
- Brakes are amazing

Cons:

- It’s heavy and you feel it
- It’s big and you notice it
- Handling was just ok. ZL1 is more confidence inspiring
- It really does not feel quicker than the ZL1. I know it is, but between the weight and the traction control it felt in line with the ZL1 until about 80 mph at which point you realize you are in a freight train.


It is a cool car, but unless you are a die-hard Ford/Shelby person, or just someone that needs to have the newest/biggest HP thing I do not see any reason to trade in a ZL1 for it. After actually driving, the base GT500 (had handling pack) I am not sure it would make me any faster around Road America than I am in my ZL1. However, it would be a fun car to just tool around town in for sure.

I have never looked at a used car before. Here are some gems from my visit:

- Although the car had its Shelby splitter in all the pictures it was not on the car when I arrived to test drive it, and no one could explain why. The sales manager doubled down and insisted it did not come with a splitter (even though it was pictured with one)

- There was a massive chunk of tire missing from the passenger-side front sidewall. I did not notice this until after my test drive. I feel VERY blessed nothing happened while I was out on the test drive given how hard I was pushing it.

- The car was advertised with 6k miles. It actually had 11k miles. When I asked how they put 5k additional miles on the car between 3/31 (when the dealership took it), and today no one could give me an answer.

- The advertised price was 88k, only a cool 500 over it’s original window sticker! However, someone the out the door price they gave me after taking into account the 53k they were going to give me on my ZL1 was 81k. I just wanted to leave, so I didn't spend much time looking at their math. There were a lot of BS fees tacked on.

- Although it was certified pre owned you don’t get the better warranty unless you pay an additional 2k. Maybe this is normal but it seems crazy to me, because they sell the car at price premium over a non CPO but you still have to pay out more money for the CPO warranty!?

- They were storing it in the service center. As we walked out to the car, the salesman showed me the three GT350’s they just acquired at auction for sale. He said two of them are waiting on new engines.

The drive home in my ZL1 was great. Have a happy 4th guys!

Mike

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Roscoe1492

So out of a combination of boredom/curiosity/”grass is greener” feelings I went up to a local Ford dealership this afternoon that has a CPO Grabber Lime GT500 with an advertised 6k Miles (more on that later).

Since I showed up with the ZL1 the sales manager let me really give the car a decent flogging. Below are my everyman thoughts:

Pros:

- The DCT is very fast
- The view from the cockpit with the giant vent is pretty badass
- The car looks cool (subjective)
- The car sounds better than the ZL1 stock (subjective)
- It hooks better than I was expecting, a lot better
- Brakes are amazing

Cons:

- It’s heavy and you feel it
- It’s big and you notice it
- Handling was just ok. ZL1 is more confidence inspiring
- It really does not feel quicker than the ZL1. I know it is, but between the weight and the traction control it felt in line with the ZL1 until about 80 mph at which point you realize you are in a freight train.


It is a cool car, but unless you are a die-hard Ford/Shelby person, or just someone that needs to have the newest/biggest HP thing I do not see any reason to trade in a ZL1 for it. After actually driving, the base GT500 (had handling pack) I am not sure it would make me any faster around Road America than I am in my ZL1. However, it would be a fun car to just tool around town in for sure.

I have never looked at a used car before. Here are some gems from my visit:

- Although the car had its Shelby splitter in all the pictures it was not on the car when I arrived to test drive it, and no one could explain why. The sales manager doubled down and insisted it did not come with a splitter (even though it was pictured with one)

- There was a massive chunk of tire missing from the passenger-side front sidewall. I did not notice this until after my test drive. I feel VERY blessed nothing happened while I was out on the test drive given how hard I was pushing it.

- The car was advertised with 6k miles. It actually had 11k miles. When I asked how they put 5k additional miles on the car between 3/31 (when the dealership took it), and today no one could give me an answer.

- The advertised price was 88k, only a cool 500 over it’s original window sticker! However, someone the out the door price they gave me after taking into account the 53k they were going to give me on my ZL1 was 81k. I just wanted to leave, so I didn't spend much time looking at their math. There were a lot of BS fees tacked on.

- Although it was certified pre owned you don’t get the better warranty unless you pay an additional 2k. Maybe this is normal but it seems crazy to me, because they sell the car at price premium over a non CPO but you still have to pay out more money for the CPO warranty!?

- They were storing it in the service center. As we walked out to the car, the salesman showed me the three GT350’s they just acquired at auction for sale. He said two of them are waiting on new engines.

The drive home in my ZL1 was great. Have a happy 4th guys!

Mike

Thanks for the review/comparison. I've been curious how the handling of a base GT500 feels compared to a ZL1. How was the steering? I've heard both great and numb, so I'm curious there. I've seen 5 GT500s in the wild since I got my ZL1 in March and haven't felt envious, so I know I made the right decision, esp. since I got mine under msrp (right before the crazy markups at new cars due to low inventory). I feel like with my ZL1 I have the OG underdog eager to prove itself against the newer, stronger, competition (though I haven't lined up against any).

I'm happy to hear but I guess not that surprised it didn't feel quicker below 80 mph than the ZL1. It's not really, if you look at the magazine test results, anyway. The ZL1 has a tad more torque and less weight so on paper it will feel as strong as a GT500 in moments. But the extra hp of the GT500 means it can carry the torque longer giving it an acceleration advantage over time. At lower speeds they are both traction limited, and at mid range speeds the ZL1 has enough power and ~235 lbs less weight allowing it to hang for a bit. After 80 the better power to weight and extra 110+ hp would start to pull away from the ZL1. At 120+ mph the extra power really starts to show its face by having more spare power to offset the air drag.

[Roscoe1492]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Thanks for the review/comparison. I've been curious how the handling of a base GT500 feels compared to a ZL1. How was the steering? I've heard both great and numb, so I'm curious there. I've seen 5 GT500s in the wild since I got my ZL1 in March and haven't felt envious, so I know I made the right decision, esp. since I got mine under msrp (right before the crazy markups at new cars due to low inventory). I feel like with my ZL1 I have the OG underdog eager to prove itself against the newer, stronger, competition (though I haven't lined up against any).

I'm happy to hear but I guess not that surprised it didn't feel quicker below 80 mph than the ZL1. It's not really, if you look at the magazine test results, anyway. The ZL1 has a tad more torque and less weight so on paper it will feel as strong as a GT500 in moments. But the extra hp of the GT500 means it can carry the torque longer giving it an acceleration advantage over time. At lower speeds they are both traction limited, and at mid range speeds the ZL1 has enough power and ~235 lbs less weight allowing it to hang for a bit. After 80 the better power to weight and extra 110+ hp would start to pull away from the ZL1. At 120+ mph the extra power really starts to show its face by having more spare power to offset the air drag.

I made sure to have the steering/suspension set in track mode. However, I was going around an oval test track, so I wasn't really pushing the steering to the limit by any means. It was better than the steering in my 2017 GT350 for sure, but it did not feel any better (or worse) than the ZL1.

Other than the brakes being really great the biggest thing that stuck out to me on the drive was just how big it felt inside the car. It sort of detracted from the overall experience.

I know people give the Camaro a hard time for feeling like a "coffin", but after 3 years in it I sort of prefer it.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Roscoe1492

So out of a combination of boredom/curiosity/”grass is greener” feelings I went up to a local Ford dealership this afternoon that has a CPO Grabber Lime GT500 with an advertised 6k Miles (more on that later).

Since I showed up with the ZL1 the sales manager let me really give the car a decent flogging. Below are my everyman thoughts:

Pros:

- The DCT is very fast
- The view from the cockpit with the giant vent is pretty badass
- The car looks cool (subjective)
- The car sounds better than the ZL1 stock (subjective)
- It hooks better than I was expecting, a lot better
- Brakes are amazing

Cons:

- It’s heavy and you feel it
- It’s big and you notice it
- Handling was just ok. ZL1 is more confidence inspiring
- It really does not feel quicker than the ZL1. I know it is, but between the weight and the traction control it felt in line with the ZL1 until about 80 mph at which point you realize you are in a freight train.


It is a cool car, but unless you are a die-hard Ford/Shelby person, or just someone that needs to have the newest/biggest HP thing I do not see any reason to trade in a ZL1 for it. After actually driving, the base GT500 (had handling pack) I am not sure it would make me any faster around Road America than I am in my ZL1. However, it would be a fun car to just tool around town in for sure.

Good review and certainly in line with what we have seen and read. At least it is consistent. I feel the same as you, the GT500 is not worth trading a ZL1 for. Not in the slightest.

Originally Posted by Roscoe1492

I have never looked at a used car before. Here are some gems from my visit:

- Although the car had its Shelby splitter in all the pictures it was not on the car when I arrived to test drive it, and no one could explain why. The sales manager doubled down and insisted it did not come with a splitter (even though it was pictured with one)

Yea, they took it off and sold it on Ebay.

Originally Posted by Roscoe1492

- There was a massive chunk of tire missing from the passenger-side front sidewall. I did not notice this until after my test drive. I feel VERY blessed nothing happened while I was out on the test drive given how hard I was pushing it.

Did you notice any blood stains there too? LOL!! Someone probably took the car out and was hooning around in it and lost control. Might explain what happened to the splitter...

Originally Posted by Roscoe1492

- The car was advertised with 6k miles. It actually had 11k miles. When I asked how they put 5k additional miles on the car between 3/31 (when the dealership took it), and today no one could give me an answer.

That explains the sidewall and the splitter...also why it has sat all this time. Most likely that particular car is gonna sit for a long time. If someone with a keen eye, like yours, and a good sense looks at it and puts it all together then it is clear that whoever buys this car is gonna get something that got the living crap beat out of it for 6K miles by the dealership. I wouldn't buy it simply because I feel that they'd be laughing at me like a sucker while I'm driving off in a car they completely beat for several months.

Originally Posted by Roscoe1492

- The advertised price was 88k, only a cool 500 over it’s original window sticker! However, someone the out the door price they gave me after taking into account the 53k they were going to give me on my ZL1 was 81k. I just wanted to leave, so I didn't spend much time looking at their math. There were a lot of BS fees tacked on.

Frod math. They have been trying to hide the ADMs in many very creative ways.

Originally Posted by Roscoe1492

- Although it was certified pre owned you don’t get the better warranty unless you pay an additional 2k. Maybe this is normal but it seems crazy to me, because they sell the car at price premium over a non CPO but you still have to pay out more money for the CPO warranty!?

Frod ain't gonna give the warranty on that thing for free. Especially not after the dealership and who knows who else beat on it for 3 months.

Originally Posted by Roscoe1492

- They were storing it in the service center. As we walked out to the car, the salesman showed me the three GT350’s they just acquired at auction for sale. He said two of them are waiting on new engines.

I wonder if the dealership had anything to do with that too? LOL!!

Originally Posted by Roscoe1492

The drive home in my ZL1 was great. Have a happy 4th guys!

Mike

The ZL1 is clearly and obviously still the best buy on this performance level. Happy 4th!!

[BlaqWhole]

Such a shame how all these dealerships are advertising GT500s at MSRP but then you call and the car is already purchased and sold with a $10K markup. It's almost like their goal is to just screw with people and waste people's time. Like "Hey we have a GT500 for sale at MSRP"...so you call and it's "Oh sorry, we don't actually have one. It sold a week and a half ago and we marked it up to $98K and we're not getting another one. But we do have a Ford Bronco if you're interested". I swear, Ford people are a special kind of "special".

[jvandy50]

I was sent contact info for one at sticker…once i inquired, crickets. Car is gone now.

I was very skeptical, but how fast it was gone(off website in less than a day), I’m not sure it wasn’t a CFTP at MSRP. Why the dealer would do that in this market, i have no idea(not an ADM supporter, but it is what it is). But i was digging pennies out the couch if true.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by jvandy50

I was sent contact info for one at sticker…once i inquired, crickets. Car is gone now.

I was very skeptical, but how fast it was gone(off website in less than a day), I’m not sure it wasn’t a CFTP at MSRP. Why the dealer would do that in this market, i have no idea(not an ADM supporter, but it is what it is). But i was digging pennies out the couch if true.

Yea they're not lasting much more than a day if that. One dealership near me had one ordered for a customer but the customer backed out. So when it arrived they put it out front. Some guy was driving down the highway, spotted it, did 2 U-Turns (major highway with cement dividers), and walked into the dealership and bought it right then and there. And it had either a $10K or $15K markup.

What I don't like is all the dishonesty with these markups. They don't advertise it I'm guessing because they alter it based on who shows up to buy it. So it could be $10K, $15K, $20K, all at the whim of the dealership. Which is why I say anyone who pays ADM is an idiot. Because for all you know they could be marking it up higher for you than for someone else.

[jvandy50]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yea they're not lasting much more than a day if that. One dealership near me had one ordered for a customer but the customer backed out. So when it arrived they put it out front. Some guy was driving down the highway, spotted it, did 2 U-Turns (major highway with cement dividers), and walked into the dealership and bought it right then and there. And it had either a $10K or $15K markup.

What I don't like is all the dishonesty with these markups. They don't advertise it I'm guessing because they alter it based on who shows up to buy it. So it could be $10K, $15K, $20K, all at the whim of the dealership. Which is why I say anyone who pays ADM is an idiot. Because for all you know they could be marking it up higher for you than for someone else.

I emailed about 7 similar cars and they were all upfront about it…cheapest one was 121k lol. Which is why i doubt the car i was chasing was at MSRP.

But yeah they might’ve told someone else different that walked in and simply wanted to move it or saw his Rolex

[shaffe]

I was at the NMRA/NMCA race this weekend in Martin MI, had a chance to see my first new GT500s in person. They do look killer. the one that was racing had some work done, he was in the 9s. Sounded great.

There was a ton of Hellcats there as well racing in the NMCA, most were in the 11s and 10s and a couple cracked 9s. Saw a TRX go down the strip as well, IIRC he went 13s.

Maybe 2 6th gens were there racing, then one is in low 10s. And a few COPO's that were straight cruising. The vast majority of the 5th and 6th gen camaros that were there were parked outside the track at the car show. So yes this is going to stir the pot, but why? You guys love to brag about how the 6th gen has been superior performance wise since it came out why do GM people not race them? There was over 500 cars registered at this event and single digit camaros racing while probably 20 or 30 sitting with the hoods popped open at the car show? I don't get it. It's not like there was a lack of chevys in the NMCA classes. tons of Novas, first gen Camaros, chevelles, S-10s hell there was even a freaking Equinox running one of the classes

[Gunkk]

I too won my class at the Bradenton 2019 NMCA....