[NG329]

Unfortunately, he ended up totaling his car trying to keep up when I started to pick up the pace.

[GreenZLE]

Clearly, that guy in the mustang was driving beyond his cars capabilities. He should have been driving HIS race, not yours.


BTW, I'd delete the last 1:50 seconds of that video. Some butthurt will ensue if you dont and you dont need that drama.

[GAGT]

Originally Posted by NG329

Unfortunately, he ended up totaling his car trying to keep up when I started to pick up the pace.

Time stamp? Ain't nobody got that much time

[NG329]

A few sequences

[NG329]

More

[N Camarolina]

What event and run group was this?

I'm left to wonder because it looks like point-bys on corners are permitted (advanced group), but the mustang driver missed nearly every apex by almost of foot (novice/intermediate). Maybe he wasn't familiar with the course, but even then he should understand and have enough experience to have pointed you by when you caught up and remained on his tail through a couple of turns.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

What event and run group was this?

I'm left to wonder because it looks like point-bys on corners are permitted (advanced group), but the mustang driver missed nearly every apex by almost of foot (novice/intermediate). Maybe he wasn't familiar with the course, but even then he should understand and have enough experience to have pointed you by when you caught up and remained on his tail through a couple of turns.

I don’t want to slag the org so I hesitate to mention the name. Typically they are very well run.

The backstory on the Mustang driver was that he received several complaints for blocking people, no wave-byes, and general intimidation.

This session was my first encounter with him and it ended up being a dogfight with him binning his car. To top it off he was politely asked not to come back and drive with this org.

I felt bad for him and introduced myself at the end of the day. I didn’t tell him who I was. The first thing he said to me was “I guess the guy in the Camaro won”. Hahaha. I said “well, I hear he’s a pretty nice guy”. He says “I think I’m gonna take some time off”. To which I replied, nah man. Get it fixed and get back out there.

His crash was a major meltdown on the front straight. A big group was watching the battle from the tower and saw him get straight worked! Hahaha. He proceeded to tell me a little about himself and it came out that he owns a dealership. I was like “MAN I’m over here feeling sorry for you and you’re rich?!” Hahahaha. Then I took a couple of pics of his car, wished him luck, and bounced.

[N Camarolina]

It's unfortunate that the mustang driver has the wrong attitude towards HPDEs and that whatever instruction he's received in the past hasn't taught him the basic concept that when you are on the track, you're not competing against the other drivers and there are no trophies or prizes. You're out there driving against yourself (to improve your skills) and you have to share the track with others who are doing the same. If he wants to truly race to win, he should aim to get a racing license and enter a club or sanctioned race.

I don't want to have to share track space with someone who thinks he has to beat you. With his current attitude he's simply unsafe to himself and others.

[Kmeleon]

Originally Posted by NG329

Unfortunately, he ended up totaling his car trying to keep up when I started to pick up the pace.

Maybe just one word of advice.... Keep your face shield down or just a small crack at most. I took a huge piece of rubber that sucked right in the drivers side window at 140mph last year.... Sounded and felt like a rock or a nut hit my face shield. Before that, I sometimes drove with my shield up. Bad idea.

[Mountain]

I don't... get this post.

Why?

I don't necessarily think the Boss 302S driver was all that terrible.

Overall just a posting with people of elevated emotions on track.

[dsm_mikey]

I look at HPDE events as a great place to learn and get seat time while helping and being helped by others.

HPDE events are not races. "Beating" someone at an HPDE event just doesn't make sense to me. I just don't understand all these videos about "owning" someone on track at an HPDE Event! A driver with limited experience with a high horsepower car can pass a better driver in a slower car. Likewise, a driver with more experience in low horsepower car can pass a driver with less experience in a higher horsepower car.

It can be frustrating being behind someone you are faster than when they do not point you by. I have been there...we have all been there.

I used to get frustrated, now I try to relax. I watch the other driver to see if they are even aware I'm there. Are they over-driving the car because I'm in their mirrors? Are they hitting apexes? Usually I come up quick behind them and when they do see me I get a wave by.

If I want to pass, I do try to stay close to them so they understand I am quicker and I want to get by. I also watch my mirrors and if I see anyone pop up that wasn't there before, they immediately get a point by!

I enjoy being at the track and it can be difficult when there is "that guy" that simply does not understand that HPDE events are not racing! When someone acts like they are the HPDE Champion I just laugh...

HPDE events are a relaxing way to get seat time and learn throughout the process.

I live 7 miles from Road America and there is nothing better than heading to the track to take in some laps with friends.

Good luck to you and to the Mustang Guy who went off track! Hopefully he gets his car fixed and can be back at it with a new perspective of HPDE events.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by Kmeleon

Maybe just one word of advice.... Keep your face shield down or just a small crack at most. I took a huge piece of rubber that sucked right in the drivers side window at 140mph last year.... Sounded and felt like a rock or a nut hit my face shield. Before that, I sometimes drove with my shield up. Bad idea.

OMG

That’s a good point and I never even considered that.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by Mountain

I don't... get this post.

Why?

I don't necessarily think the Boss 302S driver was all that terrible.

Overall just a posting with people of elevated emotions on track.

He was pretty bad — maybe even terrible for Advanced group.. Anywhere else then I could agree with you. If you can’t see how badly he missed those apexes then you might want to rewatch.

My elevated emotions as you put it manifested when I was off the track. While on the track I am dialed TF in!

No disrespect but Your post comes off a bit judgemental. I’ll say that Everybody gets something different out of an event. As long as the rules are obeyed then it’s fair play.

Personally, I don’t get why guys have to go out in 150hp cars and try to get off on beating up on guys in more powerful cars. In my opinion, they’re a hazard especially when they are 10-15 seconds off the pace of guys in the faster end of the group. I actually lapped that lotus and old school Mustang in the vid. I mean, WTF?! But we live and let live. We didn’t complain about the guys off the pace because we respect everyone who just wants to be mellow out there.

I’m guilty of being somewhat judgmental from time to time. I’m human. I roll my eyes when I see Miatas etc at 2-3 mile tracks. Mainly because if it were me I don’t see how that would be enjoyable having 4000lb cars blowing past me at twice the speed.

For the most part, the orgs I drive with have members that are very good about looking after one another.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by dsm_mikey

I look at HPDE events as a great place to learn and get seat time while helping and being helped by others.

HPDE events are not races. "Beating" someone at an HPDE event just doesn't make sense to me. I just don't understand all these videos about "owning" someone on track at an HPDE Event! A driver with limited experience with a high horsepower car can pass a better driver in a slower car. Likewise, a driver with more experience in low horsepower car can pass a driver with less experience in a higher horsepower car.

It can be frustrating being behind someone you are faster than when they do not point you by. I have been there...we have all been there.

I used to get frustrated, now I try to relax. I watch the other driver to see if they are even aware I'm there. Are they over-driving the car because I'm in their mirrors? Are they hitting apexes? Usually I come up quick behind them and when they do see me I get a wave by.

If I want to pass, I do try to stay close to them so they understand I am quicker and I want to get by. I also watch my mirrors and if I see anyone pop up that wasn't there before, they immediately get a point by!

I enjoy being at the track and it can be difficult when there is "that guy" that simply does not understand that HPDE events are not racing! When someone acts like they are the HPDE Champion I just laugh...

HPDE events are a relaxing way to get seat time and learn throughout the process.

I live 7 miles from Road America and there is nothing better than heading to the track to take in some laps with friends.

Good luck to you and to the Mustang Guy who went off track! Hopefully he gets his car fixed and can be back at it with a new perspective of HPDE events.

Agreed.

I have literally waved by nearly the entire field as I get acclimated on some days. Nothing wrong with wave byes. It’s so frustrating when folks refuse to do it. And the other extreme is that their awareness is poor. We usually report guys who don’t wave by in a timely manner and also those who cause “trains”. Trains in Advanced group are absolutely unacceptable. That guy is gonna be alright. His car is probably fixed or in the process of it.

Originally Posted by dsm_mikey

I look at HPDE events as a great place to learn and get seat time while helping and being helped by others.

That's how YOU look at it tho. Everyone sees things differently. Personally I look at it as a place to go as fast as I can without going to prison. Every single time I go out I'm looking to beat my last PR. So as long as the guys who are there to just "Get seat time" as you put it, are okay with me flying by them every single session then it's all good. You're gonna need to be comfortable with guys like me looking to get that wave by as soon as possible and right on your bumper if you don't. If I want to just get seat time then there's the drive to 'cars and coffee' on Sunday. It's a mutual respect thing.

Originally Posted by dsm_mikey

HPDE events are not races. "Beating" someone at an HPDE event just doesn't make sense to me. I just don't understand all these videos about "owning" someone on track at an HPDE Event!

It's true, it's not a race, but you do have racers there getting practice very often. Also, while not a race, the speeds and lap times often approach race pace. Therefore it demands the same amount of respect. "Beating" someone as you put it can be what motivates a person to improve. I ride with a small group and I know that deep down they want to beat my laptimes.... and I'm trying to beat the times set by guys a few seconds quicker than me. I have no issue with that whatsoever. So long as it does not become dangerous where rules are not being followed. The main differences in HPDE vs racing are passing rules and consistency of fast laps. Passing rules are self explanatory. What I mean by consistency of fast laps is:

Racer's lap timer
1:31
1:29
1:29
1:28
1:29

HPDE Lap Timer
1:31
1:36
1:29
1:28
1:35

The main difference being that the HPDE driver has to slow down in order to abide by the rules when he comes up on slower traffic which hurts his lap time. Otherwise, his pace is just as fast and the rate of speed at which he comes up behind another HPDE participant is just as scary.

Originally Posted by dsm_mikey

A driver with limited experience with a high horsepower car can pass a better driver in a slower car. Likewise, a driver with more experience in low horsepower car can pass a driver with less experience in a higher horsepower car.

This is the mindset that irritates me. You have a lot of broke dudes (no disrespect) in small cars (I know that all of them are not broke) that are trying to prove themselves every time they see a casual in a high end car. ...these are the same guys who talk high and mighty about how irritated they are over the slowpoke in the Ferrari 488 or whatever. Meanwhile Ferrari dude is winning in life. The same ones that when they finally do get a wave-by they get pissed off that the guy didn't hit the brakes to let them by.....because "lifting" still isn't enough to let those smaller displacement cars by. - My personal feeling is that groups should be comprised according to a bell curve based on lap times for a given day's participants. Or have horsepower limits in Advance groups. 300hp and under | 300hp and over

Rotation: Adv 300+ | Adv 300- | Intermediate | Novice/School