[RacingBrake]

Originally Posted by ZL1 1LE

I couldn't deal with the, in my case, red 1LE calipers in the front and gray or silver Z/28 calipers in the rear. Also, I probably won't be considering this until the OEM requires replacement.

We understand the color/logo match can be a concern, so we will consider offering the Z28 rear caliper in red with ZL1 logo.

It would be a cost modification to this kit.
http://www.racingbrake.com/Camaro-Z-...rccb-gm-02.htm

[ZL1 1LE]

Originally Posted by RacingBrake

We understand the color/logo match can be a concern, so we will consider offering the Z28 rear caliper in red with ZL1 logo.

It would be a cost modification to this kit.
http://www.racingbrake.com/Camaro-Z-...rccb-gm-02.htm

Red with 1LE logo.

[nicktechla]

Originally Posted by RacingBrake

We understand the color/logo match can be a concern, so we will consider offering the Z28 rear caliper in red with ZL1 logo.

It would be a cost modification to this kit.
http://www.racingbrake.com/Camaro-Z-...rccb-gm-02.htm

if you need a car to test that setup on, i volunteer . jk

[RacingBrake]

We are eagerly looking for the very first ZL1 to equip with RB-CCB rotors like John J. on his GT350.

You can begin with just the front set and progressively add rear set later.

Guarantee easy* installation with improved and lasting performance backed by our full service in brake pads selection and after service.

*Easier and less fatigue in install/handling due to much light weight.

How can I justify the cost difference?

https://trackmustangsonline.com/thre...3/#post-181150

Originally Posted by JAJ, post: 181150, member: 3022

It hadn't occurred to me that there would be a risk of spinal cord injury!


So, the logic (there is some) goes like this: If you have a GT350 and you take off one 60 pound front wheel/tire combo and replace it with a 44 pound GT350R front CF wheel/MPSC2 tire combo, you reduce the unsprung weight by 16 pounds. Buying new CF rims and PSC2 tires for the front axle costs about $6k or so, and of course you'd really need all four corners, so maybe $10k to $12k by the time you're done. The magic of the CCB front rotors is that they also reduce the front axle weight by 16 pounds a side and they cost about the same as the CF front rim/tire combo. However, with the rotor swap, you don't need new rear rims, and the weight reduction stays on the car when the wheels come off. The front axle always weighs 16 pounds less, regardless which wheels and tires are installed.

In other words, they're more expensive than iron rotors, but they're a lot cheaper than a set of CF rims!

PM us for a special deal if you like to be the first proud owner of this CCB set up.

[RacingBrake]

RacingBrake is honored to be designated by David Donohue - A well known professional Porsche racer, to build a complete CCB brake kit for his 991 Turbo S competing in recent The Pikes Peak International Hill Climb (PPIHC), also known as The Race to the Clouds

Here is his in-depth review which I hope you'll enjoy reading it.

Originally Posted by DDonohue

Sorry for such a stupid long post. If you have insomnia, here is a cure…

I am long overdue to post here, especially after Warren was so helpful at such a critical time in our program. My observations are the result of my actual use of the RB friction materials (CCM Discs and Sintered Pads) and calipers. I would add that I have extensive experience with PCCBs through multiple generations because of my work with Porsche. I work for Porsche currently, but this is not a Porsche influenced write-up. Personally, I love the PCCBs and wouldn’t buy a car without them. Their performance advantage is without question.

To Begin - the Pikes Peak car started life as a well-equipped 2014 Turbo S, including Burmester and a load of other options. If you are going to ask why start with that car, then you can stop reading now because logic doesn't apply to motorsports...ever.

I admit that I do not know in depth all the science behind the materials used, but I have a lot of experience with a broad selection of traditional brake arrangements through my racing and testing. This includes carbon materials on the GT2 Viper back in the late 90's, the Panoz LMP-900, the IROC cars, and the RS Spyder. In the DPs, after much testing, we would change pad materials based upon track grip level, downforce level, ambient temperatures, and race duration. We used a variety of materials from different manufacturers, and would even mix them front to rear based upon conditions, results, and feedback. It cost A LOT!

The most important statement I can make here is that the RB supplied materials and calipers worked flawlessly from the beginning. The braking was consistent from the moment we began testing throughout the course of the month, and until the very end. Even throughout the brake zones themselves, I found little variation from initial bite until the release. We had some challenges with bleeding as you always do with a newly installed system. I found that the best method was the old-fashioned manual pump and open technique, which was superior to vacuum or pressure methods. This was after some good use and heat cycling. Once we got the air out, it was really good and confident.

We are making changes to the car for next year, but the only change to the brake set-up will be Bosch ABS and dual masters. The RB pieces will remain for sure.

To pre-answer questions – here are some random notes. I have a whole lot on my plate right now with Porsche (Thanks to GT3, GT2 RS, and Turbo Exclusive). I really don’t have time to answer questions here, especially if they are confrontational.

Note 1 - Given the competition on the mountain it became very clear we needed to fit 18" wheels in order to broaden the tire selection and availability. Because the stock front discs are 410mm (~16"), they could not be retained within an 18" wheel. We already had a rather heavy car (400+ lbs heavier than the winning car), and the brake weight is an often-overlooked performance area. The weight savings in the brakes is an easy acceleration/deceleration and handling advantage with the only downside being the initial cost. Because there were suspension interferences, many changes in the rear also had to be made in order to fit the wheels.

Note 2 - I didn't want to use a full carbon brake because I could not afford to wait for any warm-up time for the materials to begin working. The brakes needed to work immediately and consistently at any temperature. At Pikes Peak, the ambient temps can vary from the mid 80's to the 30's. In spite of cool temperatures, at 9500-14,000 feet, nothing cools like you would hope. For Example, my Macan would normally run 230-260F degree oil temp when running at 25-30 mph up the mountain...and even back down.

Note 3 - We considered using 997 PCCB materials, but they are of an older generation and still rather expensive. RB was able to supply everything we needed, and was one of the few bits that simply bolted on with no modification whatsoever. The only thing we could have done was add a ~3mm spacer to the front caliper to move it outboard a little, but we had much more critical items to attend to all month. The brakes (Friction materials and calipers) worked flawlessly from the beginning and were never a concern.

Note 4 - It is important to understand that the RB discs and the PCCB Discs are quite different in spite of both being Carbon Ceramic. The PCCBs are only about 3% carbon. The PCCBs are checked for wear by using a special tool from Porsche that measures the remaining carbon content in the disc. There is a clear visual difference when you see the two discs side by side. The PCCBs have a more crystal like appearance when looking at the "end-grain" where a traditional iron brake would have its vanes. In contrast, the RB disc looks much more like a traditional carbon disc in this same area. However, the radial surface where the pad makes contact (disc face), both discs look very similar when new on this disc face. With the RB materials, this new look doesn't last long (see note 7).

Note 5 - I will say that the materials we used were a bit loud, not squealing, but more like a low level grind. You can hear it slightly in the videos from the in-car. This is perfectly acceptable and not noticeable for a race/track car, but it would drive me nuts on a road car. Warren told me this is a characteristic of this material and there are others that do not sound like this.

Note 6 – Issues – A) We had some issues with the brakes only because we were using very soft/low temp racing slicks and the stock boosted brake system and ABS. If I went very quickly to the pedal (because you can with slicks) I would occasionally get an uncharacteristically hard pedal that would throw me off. B) We tested at ~6500 feet at a few local tracks when it was 80-90F ambient, and some of the uninsulated sensors/wires melted in the heat. C) We had an ABS wire get cut on a wheel weight in qualifying which is why we qualified so poorly. Also of note, we did not add any brake cooling, not even for testing. However, in testing, we did end up putting blower fans at the wheels when I came in for changes to reduce the heat soak and try to preserve the sensors and wires.

Note 7 - I will apologize to RB in advance - to me, the discs end up looking butt ugly. That's just my opinion. I cannot argue against their performance regardless of the appearance. At one point we cleared the cross drilled holes, but there was zero change in performance. I never had an "out-gassing" issue like I have experienced in a Camaro with stock CCMs. To me they felt every bit as good as PCCBs, but still different and maybe with a slightly lower friction level (more pedal effort)...stress maybe and also stress this is not a bad thing, just different. If anyone is on the fence about this system and asks me, I can recommend the RB CCM set-up. The parts supplied were very nicely made and finished, and fit straight out of the box with no modification. Our set-up was an odd one for sure, but Warren was very reactive and quick to respond. I can comfortably recommend without hesitation.




Rear



Rear - if you notice the rough pad edge, this was noticed very early and did not deteriorate with heat, time, or mileage. RB was aware and familiar and advised not to worry.



Front



Front

[waterman]

subscribed.

[kingbambino22]

Originally Posted by RacingBrake

No. The Z28 rotors will not fit G6 spindle (SS/ZL1) directly.

You must purchase RB-CCB rotors first then after that when you need replacement "discs" you can purchase Z28 rotors dis-assemble them and re-assemble the new CCM disc to RB hats.

Discs are interchangeable but not the rotor.

Questions for Racing Brake:

1. If the Z28 rotors won't bolt up to the ZL1, why are the RB hats optional instead of standard and not included in the price?

2. Why not include in your CCB package a street/light track pad instead of a street pad? Most will track the car stock before commenting to a full track pad I'm assuming.

[RacingBrake]

The price is for the complete rotor assembly.

Since GM doesn't sell the disc along, so when you need to replace the disc you must purchase Z28 rotor from GM (dealers or online), dis-assemble them, and re-assemble the new disc (from Z28) to RB hat and new hardware.

Street pad is included as standard, other compounds are available as option depending on customer's preference, among them XC40 - trackable street sintered pad would be a popular choice for all occasion, all the time brake pad.

Latest review by a GT350 track driver with RB CCM rotors and sintered (streetable vs. David's dedicated race compound) that he tracked on Mission Raceway (Canada) last Monday.

...The sintered pads were excellent, by the way. Good brake performance, easy to modulate and no sign of fading. I was using titanium shields and ATE Typ200 fluid. The whole package worked great on a track that's famous for destroying brakes. ...

https://trackmustangsonline.com/thre...-2#post-182441

[RacingBrake]

Rather than just upgrading the front CCM rotor kit, if you are looking to convert to complete CCM, here is the kit for you.

http://www.racingbrake.com/Camaro-Z-...rccb-gm-02.htm

1. This is the lowest priced CCB kit you can even find for G6 Camaro, if you have ZL1 you can ever deduct the front calipers for further saving.

2. Z28 rear CCM rotor will mount directly to G6 rear spindle w/o modification. Option choice would be RB's composite rotor hats for substantial weight saving.

3. Package comes with our standard XT910 street pads, optional sintered pad are available for all occasion, all time, all weather consistent braking on your G6

Low cost, easy to install, and low maintenance is what RB-CCB can provide.

[kingbambino22]

Originally Posted by RacingBrake

Rather than just upgrading the front CCM rotor kit, if you are looking to convert to complete CCM, here is the kit for you.

http://www.racingbrake.com/Camaro-Z-...rccb-gm-02.htm

1. This is the lowest priced CCB kit you can even find for G6 Camaro, if you have ZL1 you can ever deduct the front calipers for further saving.

2. Z28 rear CCM rotor will mount directly to G6 rear spindle w/o modification. Option choice would be RB's composite rotor hats for substantial weight saving.

3. Package comes with our standard XT910 street pads, optional sintered pad are available for all occasion, all time, all weather consistent braking on your G6

Low cost, easy to install, and low maintenance is what RB-CCB can provide.

I was looking at the whole kit. That's what my questions was based off of. Makes more sense once you explained that the fronts won't bolt up but the rears will. I was accounting for front and rear bolting up not them separately.
I always do research on anything before purchase. Thanks for the explanation Racing Brake.

[RacingBrake]

Agree. Intelligent consumers are our best customer, and we'll try to answer any of your questions to make sure you are fully comfortable before purchase.

[OminouSS]

I can attest to the longevity of the pads RB uses for the CCM's. I cannot wear them down. The pads last seemingly forever. Seriously, they wont go away. I keep trying to find a reason to replace them but there they are, still cruising along after 60+ sessions.

[travislambert]

I'm interested, but I have some questions about the pricing.

Why only a $700 deduction if we reuse our front calipers? Two front Z/28 calipers are worth $2,000+.

Why are the Z/28 pads a $883.00 upcharge? The full cost of the pads would be about $925... assuming racingbrake pays that or less, that would only place a value on the RB XT910 pads of $42.

A full CCM kit on the website reusing my front calipers, OE Z/28 pads, and no brake fluid; the total comes to $10,652.00.

The actual retail (not suggested retail) on the GM components are about $7,736.62 (see breakdown below). Of course this doesn't include the pair of front hats or the 4 brake lines, but am I missing something else?

(I'm just trying to understand/justify the cost on my end. Since the car is only 65K, it makes it harder to spend 10K+ on brakes.)

2015 Z/28 part prices from thatgmpartsguy
----------------------------------------
Front Rotors (22958646) x2 $2736.86
Front Brake Pads (22990624) $465.12
Rear Rotors (22958647) x2 $2736.86
Rear Brake Pads (22990625) $460.56
Rear Caliper Left (22958637) $668.61
Rear Caliper Right (22958634) $668.61


To help with the cost, are there any options available for reusing rear calipers as well (smaller rear rotor)?

Thanks!

[nighttowl]

https://youtu.be/Q_3PebbkGpo