[Mark114]

I wonder if the "Z/28" car we saw in spy shots at the Nurburgring was actually a prototype for the GT4.R?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Mark114

I wonder if the "Z/28" car we saw in spy shots at the Nurburgring was actually a prototype for the GT4.R?

Or the street-version doppleganger?

[Bhobbs]

You don't need to street test GT4 cars.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I tend to agree....a theoretical Z/28, following the same formula as last generation would weigh in at approximately 3610, and have 510-530 hp. 3610 is a full 250 less than the ZL1. It would put a Nurburgring lap time in the high 7:10s, I'm sure of it.

I think that might be a tad optimistic. You really think they could knock an additional 10+ seconds of the ZL-1's time of 7:29?

I'm just saying you look at the cars that have cracked the sub 7:20 list on the Ring, that is quite the list of vehicles.

[BradfordCamaro]

Keeping in the "Spirit" of the Z/28....or Whatever Al O. said. I would expect a "Track" ready Camaro or "Track Killer" Camaro available to the regular Joe who works a '9 to 5'.
Not a Race bred Gt class car that is out of reach for 99% of Camaro buyers.

yes, yes, 1LE and ZL1 are very Track Capable. Even the SS can hold it's own. But you need that "Track Monster" in your stable.

[SpeedIsLife]

The big question is if they're going to follow the Gen 5 model of SS-ZL1-Z/28 or keep the ZL1 top dog and slot the Z/28 in lower.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro

Keeping in the "Spirit" of the Z/28....or Whatever Al O. said. I would expect a "Track" ready Camaro or "Track Killer" Camaro available to the regular Joe who works a '9 to 5'.
Not a Race bred Gt class car that is out of reach for 99% of Camaro buyers.

yes, yes, 1LE and ZL1 are very Track Capable. Even the SS can hold it's own. But you need that "Track Monster" in your stable.

I think the issue is getting the track monster capability elevates the price beyond the average Joe Camaro owner.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think that might be a tad optimistic. You really think they could knock an additional 10+ seconds of the ZL-1's time of 7:29?

I'm just saying you look at the cars that have cracked the sub 7:20 list on the Ring, that is quite the list of vehicles.

Folks said the same of this ZL1. I am being a bit optimistic...

Last generation, they pulled 4 seconds off of the ZL1s time, and that included rain for the latter 25% of the lap. I think if that rain wasn't an issue, the 7:37, would have been more like a 7:32-7:34, which is approximately 9 seconds quicker.

I also think they drove the Z/28 a second or two harder than they drove the ZL1...

And, if a Z/28 borrowed aero work from the GT4.R car...it'd be in another class altogether than any track Camaro we've seen before...

But that's alllllll conjecture and speculation on my part.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

The big question is if they're going to follow the Gen 5 model of SS-ZL1-Z/28 or keep the ZL1 top dog and slot the Z/28 in lower.

I agree, this is the big question. The answer only comes after engineering, marketing, and accounting fight it out and come to terms.

The problem with the 5th Gen is that it really painted GM into a corner with the name plate. It was really, most likely, a low risk proposition at the time. The LS7 came with relatively low over head. The only real big trick to the car was the suspension and the tires. With the refresh coming, and the slowing sales of the Camaro, it was no brainer from all angles. It served well as a halo car, and brought some new technology to the house, speaking of DSSV and Trofeo tires.

However, with the 6th Gen, unless they stick with a current engine, the overhead is going to be significantly higher. If the overhead is higher, then they will need to rely on more sales to pay for it. An $80K track prepped, no frills Camaro isn't going to hit that mark, no matter how bad assed it may be. The market will just be too small.

But then, there is the GT350 sitting out there, so, who knows what they're thinking sitting around the mahogany table?

[Bhobbs]

I disagree. GM can't just put a premium on their engines. The 5.8 Trinity outdid the LS9 and the 5.2 Voodoo outdid the LS7 but both ended up in cars much cheaper than their GM counterparts. The LT4 seems to be heading in that direction, so hopefully a hot LTx won't be too expensive.

[Macaro]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

But then, there is the GT350 sitting out there, so, who knows what they're thinking sitting around the mahogany table?

The GT350 and specifically the GT350R can be (and most are) spec'd with all the niceties consumers have come to expect like a Nav system, backup camera, decent stereo, digital dash, etc. With the GT350R Ford lets buyers choose how tracked out they want to be. Want to delete some of those things to save 15 pounds? Go ahead. However of the 526 made in 2016 a whopping 462 kept all the goodies...consumers want options and most want a car to be more versatile, not less. I want my car to rule the track when I'm out there running my session but when I'm making the two and a half hour ride home, I'd like to have my AC blasting right along with my music and see a text message pop up on the LCD when my wife calls.

Chevrolet can sell a ton of track kings if they spec it right and price it in the low 60's.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Folks said the same of this ZL1. I am being a bit optimistic...

Last generation, they pulled 4 seconds off of the ZL1s time, and that included rain for the latter 25% of the lap. I think if that rain wasn't an issue, the 7:37, would have been more like a 7:32-7:34, which is approximately 9 seconds quicker.

I also think they drove the Z/28 a second or two harder than they drove the ZL1...

And, if a Z/28 borrowed aero work from the GT4.R car...it'd be in another class altogether than any track Camaro we've seen before...

But that's alllllll conjecture and speculation on my part.

Yes that is true.

I just see that time range your hoping for (Sub 7:20) and I think to myself, that is last gen ZR1(7:19) to Viper ACR(7:12) territory. Now tests between the current Z07/Z07 can't keep up with the Viper ACR on a race track(granted not on the ring, we don't know what the Z07 did on the ring), how is a Camaro going to get in that range? Based off of your guesstimate of 510-530 HP

After seeing the ZL1 there is no doubt to me it can be a mid to low 7:20 car but a sub 7:20 to me seems out of reach

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Mark114

I wonder if the "Z/28" car we saw in spy shots at the Nurburgring was actually a prototype for the GT4.R?

Nah, look at the lower front fascias, they're very different.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I disagree. GM can't just put a premium on their engines. The 5.8 Trinity outdid the LS9 and the 5.2 Voodoo outdid the LS7 but both ended up in cars much cheaper than their GM counterparts. The LT4 seems to be heading in that direction, so hopefully a hot LTx won't be too expensive.

I was just talking about the costs involved just getting the engine into production. R&D, casting parts, contracting parts from outside suppliers, tooling, testing, training, all of those things that were in place and paid for long before the Z/28 was even drawn on a piece of paper. Keep in mind that before they rolled out the Z/28, the LS7 was an engine without a car, Corvette had moved on from it.