[m6-lt1]

If Chevy ever drops the LT2 in a Camaro, you can sign me up as a customer for it. I don't care what they call it. If they call it a Z/28 I'm fine with it and I'm fine with it not being the top Camaro. My preference would be LT2, SS 1LE body/similar setup (ZLE is just too extreme for the street imho) and some suspension tweaks to assist with the extra power. Make it a good drivers car on the street, then focus on the track. The majority of people buying these cars are not tracking them and a 6th gen SS 1LE with an LT1 is already good enough on track, the 40 extra horsepower would just be icing on the cake. I think this version of a Camaro would be a great swan song for the Camaro/6th gen.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

If Chevy ever drops the LT2 in a Camaro, you can sign me up as a customer for it. I don't care what they call it. If they call it a Z/28 I'm fine with it and I'm fine with it not being the top Camaro. My preference would be LT2, SS 1LE body/similar setup (ZLE is just too extreme for the street imho) and some suspension tweaks to assist with the extra power. Make it a good drivers car on the street, then focus on the track. The majority of people buying these cars are not tracking them and a 6th gen SS 1LE with an LT1 is already good enough on track, the 40 extra horsepower would just be icing on the cake. I think this version of a Camaro would be a great swan song for the Camaro/6th gen.

You must be channeling me

[s346k]

they only problem with putting an LT2 in a camaro is it wouldn't be an LT2, it would be a variant because the *real LT2 won't fit in anything but a vette. if 40 crank hp excites you that much, cai, headers and a tune will get at least much that for you.

the LT2 appeal stops with the camaro. won't be dry sump, won't have the good intake manifold and won't have the good exhaust.

the LT2 uses the exact same rotating assy as the LT1. it appears the cyl heads are almost identical, if not, as well. different camshaft, that honestly would not work (*as advertised in a vette) in a camaro because of the intake/exhaust restrictions.

so basically an LT2 camaro won't happen and if it ever could it would be an LT1.5 with performance easily surpassed by minor bolt on LT1 cars.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by s346k

they only problem with putting an LT2 in a camaro is it wouldn't be an LT2, it would be a variant because the *real LT2 won't fit in anything but a vette. if 40 crank hp excites you that much, cai, headers and a tune will get at least much that for you.

the LT2 appeal stops with the camaro. won't be dry sump, won't have the good intake manifold and won't have the good exhaust.

the LT2 uses the exact same rotating assy as the LT1. it appears the cyl heads are almost identical, if not, as well. different camshaft, that honestly would not work (*as advertised in a vette) in a camaro because of the intake/exhaust restrictions.

so basically an LT2 camaro won't happen and if it ever could it would be an LT1.5 with performance easily surpassed by minor bolt on LT1 cars.

It will be a LT3, basically an LT2 for the Camaro. There is also the potential for a LT3, basically a direct injection version of the LS7 (Z/28). Both are feasible. I like the cam in cam idea and then we are talking 530 ish HP.... problem solved.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I, for one, am not criticizing it. I think it is the most properly put together non-Shelby Mustang on the S550 platform (as far as I can tell, so far, obviously we need more data). The only thing I think that may screw this up is pricing and ADMs. If it is priced right, this is the non-Shelby to buy.



I think that the Mustang crowd is a bit upset because some believed the fake news about extra HP. That's on them.



Now as far as a Z/28(or Z28): the extension of the the Gen6 program makes a Z/28 possible. IF the Z06 comes with the rumored 5.5L N/A FPC engine that may be a candidate for the Z/28 engine (if it fits, obviously). The Z06 could be a 2022 model year, which would mean there COULD be a Z/28 with that same engine in 2023. If there was no Gen6 program extension, there would be no Gen6 Z/28. Again, those are a lot of if's, and obviously, pricing has to be right as well...

I second the Z/28 idea. Give it a FPC DOHC screamer like the GT350. Get it to be distinctively different engine-wise and it can shut all the "ew pushrod" people up.

Doesn't mean I will buy one, but IMO it will set itself to be different from other Camaros to be unique.

Sent from toaster or something

[oldman]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I second the Z/28 idea. Give it a FPC DOHC screamer like the GT350. Get it to be distinctively different engine-wise and it can shut all the "ew pushrod" people up.

Doesn't mean I will buy one, but IMO it will set itself to be different from other Camaros to be unique.

Sent from toaster or something

Heck no, FPC DOHC = needless complication, a simple cam in cam can give all the 6th gen Camaro needs for a Z/28 like image. Even Ford has stepped back from FPC due to (assume) reliability and cost issues.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by oldman

Heck no, FPC DOHC = needless complication, a simple cam in cam can give all the 6th gen Camaro needs for a Z/28 like image. Even Ford has stepped back from FPC due to (assume) reliability and cost issues.

Agree. Not to mention the cost and how the heck do you suppose this FPC mess would slide into a Camaro engine bay? No thanks.

[oldman]

Next time you set past a C7, look at the hood and you realize there is a V8 under there. Walk past a Mustang and realize that under that hood and the complete engine bay is filled with an engine... no thanks.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by oldman

It will be a LT3, basically an LT2 for the Camaro. There is also the potential for a LT3, basically a direct injection version of the LS7 (Z/28). Both are feasible. I like the cam in cam idea and then we are talking 530 ish HP.... problem solved.

it would be difficult to hold a DI 427 to only 530 crank. at bare minimum it would make 575 assuming gm didn't use a left over small bore cyl head and cam profile. i don't think the hp:cid math works directly as displacement grows. a factory DI 427 would require a lot of work on the cyl head and intake manifold front. both of which are weak on the LT1.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by LESS1

Agree. Not to mention the cost and how the heck do you suppose this FPC mess would slide into a Camaro engine bay? No thanks.

Let me start with the cost aspect first. Chevy is already rumored to be developing an 5.5L N/A FPC engine for the C8 Z06. If this rumor is true, that engine is already developed, so cost would only be for the intake/exhaust modifications to fit the Camaro and getting the emissions/economy certified.

AND, since the Gen6 Camaro program has been extended, there is time for the Z06 to come out in MY22 and a Z/28 in MY23. As for fit, going to a lower displacement means it would probably fit, but we can't be sure at this point. This would help keep the Z06 and Z/28 true to their N/A history.

Now, as for the oldman's idea of developing a new 7.0L engine would mean developing a whole new engine for just the Camaro (as I don't see this engine going into a Corvette). While possible, I think this idea is extremely unlikely for this reason alone. Personnaly, I LOVE the idea, but I just don't see it happening. Even a 5.5L FPC Z/28 is a long shot.

If there is one more big Hi-Po Gen6 Camaro, I think they will just put the LT5 in the ZL1 and call it a day (which I would love to see as well). But, they should stick to the ZL1 name if they do...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by LESS1

Agree on the price however when released the Z/28 was more car for the dollar than either of the current GT500s. LS7 motor, DSSV, carbon brakes, and sub 7:38 second Nurburgring lap on very wet sections of track. Which was faster than the following cars (tested on a dry track) Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG, Ferrari 430 Scuderia, and Lexus LFA. Pretty damn impressive in my mind. Current GT500s are a fail when compared to their competition at anything but going fast in a straight line. I can see why Frod won't officially run these at the ring given their propensity for the tires to go off after a lap or two. The ring would really expose the GT500s chassis and weight issues. Don't believe it? Well, Gen 5 Z/28 ran a better Ring lap (again with wet sections) than 662HP 2013 Shelby GT500 on a dry track. Same Frod recipe as today's GT500s... big HP and compromised chasis, sometings never change do they?

Not really disagreeing with any of what you said other than AFAIK the 5th gen GT500 was never run at the ring. Ford doesn't release lap times, hasn't for the last 20 years. The only times I can find for Fords at the Ring are from 3rd party testers.

I do believe in a head to head match up done by one of the mags the Z/28 was faster around the track and I believe its faster around Laguna Seca jsut looking at old BDC data.

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Let me start with the cost aspect first. Chevy is already rumored to be developing an 5.5L N/A FPC engine for the C8 Z06. If this rumor is true, that engine is already developed, so cost would only be for the intake/exhaust modifications to fit the Camaro and getting the emissions/economy certified.

AND, since the Gen6 Camaro program has been extended, there is time for the Z06 to come out in MY22 and a Z/28 in MY23. As for fit, going to a lower displacement means it would probably fit, but we can't be sure at this point. This would help keep the Z06 and Z/28 true to their N/A history.

Now, as for the oldman's idea of developing a new 7.0L engine would mean developing a whole new engine for just the Camaro (as I don't see this engine going into a Corvette). While possible, I think this idea is extremely unlikely for this reason alone. Personnaly, I LOVE the idea, but I just don't see it happening. Even a 5.5L FPC Z/28 is a long shot.

If there is one more big Hi-Po Gen6 Camaro, I think they will just put the LT5 in the ZL1 and call it a day (which I would love to see as well). But, they should stick to the ZL1 name if they do...

The 5.5 DOHC FPC would be a very interesting option to make a Gen 6 Z/28. The only problem I see with that is where does it fit in the line up cost wise and performance wise. Would have to imagine it's a fairly expensive engine and then they would have to add some other go fast goodies to optimize it's potential.

Obviously it would outperform the SS 1LE, but how does it stack up performance wise/price wise to the ZL1. That is where I see the biggest hold up.

Also I don't think we will ever see another 7.0L performance engine. IIRC that was the route they originally wanted to go for the C7Z06. They could get the power but couldn't pass cold start emissions so they went boost. Or at least that was the rumor floating around

[oldman]

Originally Posted by s346k

it would be difficult to hold a DI 427 to only 530 crank. at bare minimum it would make 575 assuming gm didn't use a left over small bore cyl head and cam profile. i don't think the hp:cid math works directly as displacement grows. a factory DI 427 would require a lot of work on the cyl head and intake manifold front. both of which are weak on the LT1.

I assumed GM would not do "a lot of work", so I estimate 530. I personally think only cam in cam would get near 575 HP. But would love to be wrong.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Let me start with the cost aspect first. Chevy is already rumored to be developing an 5.5L N/A FPC engine for the C8 Z06. If this rumor is true, that engine is already developed, so cost would only be for the intake/exhaust modifications to fit the Camaro and getting the emissions/economy certified.

Please, a LT3 engine from mild say 6.2 480 HP to wild 7.0 cam in cam 570 HP maybe feasible as the last OHV harah and actually be used in the Vette and Camaro.

But a DOHC is a completely new engine for the Camaro and there is NO cost justification for it as the chassis is already traction limited. Plus I'm still not buying this smaller size DOHC engine that "fits" in the Camaro. Ford had decades of turkey SOHC and DOHC engine designs and arguably the latest 5.0 is not any "better" vs the LT1 / LT2 / LT5 / LT5. Ford (which should be no surprise) did what Yamaha has been doing for 50 years now, raise the intake port to make power NA and that means the engine gets EVEN BIGGER. So if GM goes with a "small" external dimension 5.5 DOHC it will have a extremely compromised port design and that means it will ONLY be good under FI where boost makes up for port flow (still got 4 valves and variable valves timing). But is makes for a shizznet NA engine.... just ask Ford going back to what 1994 ish??? Just about the time they contracted with Yamaha to build their SHO V6 and V8s, heck they could have hired me for pennies on the tens of thousands of dollars, I've been porting and racing Yamaha heads since the Toyota 2TG and 3TG engines (early 70s). You want a DOHC to flow? raise the port.... not "easy" on a V engine, especially if you now have a hot valley and the intake is now down by the fenderwells. Look at the new GM hot valley V engines, the intake manifold looks like an exhaust manifold (no surprise there) it must breath like an two pack a day 90 year old great grand pa, the engine has two turbos and in fact the smaller intake volume is not a bug it is a feature as the velocity hence response is REALLY good. But to pretend that you going to get this thing to breath like a Ferrari just because of the DOHC moniker belies a lack of engineering appreciation.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/03...lly-announced/

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

AND, since the Gen6 Camaro program has been extended, there is time for the Z06 to come out in MY22 and a Z/28 in MY23. As for fit, going to a lower displacement means it would probably fit, but we can't be sure at this point.

What part of a 5.0 Mustang's completely filled engine compartment don't you get????? I mean really? It has been going on 3 decades now that Ford's answer is UNWORKABLE given the Camaro and upto the C7's hood lines. Here a Ford: (caution GM folks as this may burn your eyes as well as dull your wits an no A/C and no warranty and a hideous hood bulge. )

[oldman]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Also I don't think we will ever see another 7.0L performance engine. IIRC that was the route they originally wanted to go for the C7Z06. They could get the power but couldn't pass cold start emissions so they went boost. Or at least that was the rumor floating around

Well there was also the Obama CAFE standards that meant building a "gas hog" car forces payments in the form of carbon offsets to Tesla. Even though a SUV which is a truck got far poorer MPG... but I digress. There are still smog laws and even though the Feds are walking back the 50 state / i.e. California standards it does have a big effect on V8 engines with performance camshafts and no variable overlap. Will these be walked back? We will know in November won't we. It is a hard grind from ULEV to PZEV