[13vertss]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

We've already talked about why I feel it won't hit those numbers. I'm sure many have doubts but are to proud to admit it because they don't want someone to be correct. I personally don't care what it weighs I love it so far I just don't like being lied to. It's a bad move on gm's behalf. But like I've stated before I have my spoon ready and im willing to gladly eat crow if Im wrong. I don't mind being wrong when the outcome is better. Do you?

But your acting like you have been lied to even tho weights have not been released. Your paying way to much attention to the pills propaganda. Wait for the weights to be posted, then give us your reponse.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

We've already talked about why I feel it won't hit those numbers. I'm sure many have doubts but are to proud to admit it because they don't want someone to be correct. I personally don't care what it weighs I love it so far I just don't like being lied to. It's a bad move on gm's behalf. But like I've stated before I have my spoon ready and im willing to gladly eat crow if Im wrong. I don't mind being wrong when the outcome is better. Do you?

I won't be wrong or need to admit I was wrong, because I didn't make the promises. Al O. did. So he will be the one who is wrong and who has lied because for months they have reiterated and chosen plain words to the effect that the V6 and T4 will be close to 300lbs lighter than the previous gen model to model and the SS will be at least 200lbs lighter than the previous gen model to model. There is no wiggle room in the statements he has made. We have seen in press releases, videos, and interviews. It will be the greatest lie in recent memory to have a 1SS that is less than 200lbs lighter than a '15 1SS or a V6/T4 that only lost <250lbs (because >250lbs is close to 300lbs in any math approximation).

There's being cautious and there's pessimism. We have been given no reason to be pessimistic about Al's promises, unlike how evasive Ford has been about addressing the GT350's weight. Those two should stand a stark contrast.

[90503]

I'll go with the weight loss predicted and what is stated by the man (Al O.) who is the most familiar and knowledgeable about this topic.

If anyone, for whatever reason, wants to believe he is "lying", go ahead. It's not up to me to argue with anyone who doesn't know what the car weighs.

[ULTRAZLS1]

I don't see what's so special about his predictions or anything else he ever talks about. It is all predictions extrapolated from information anyone can get ahold of.

In this situation we have a car on the same platform and know what it weighs. We know a lot of the different parts it will have and not have in comparison to the ats-v.... Etc etc. his price predictions... Wrong again but bragged he was close...anyone could get close on a price prediction when it's only a few thousand either way. Any idiot could predict it could be tough to hit the weight mark. It's just that he beats it to death and talks about every little thing. Picks everything apart. He needs a new hobby and a life.

As far as who is wrong or who is right. We can't help if we've been lied to. Its no dumber than when a lot of them thought the new gt was dropping weight from random rumors and loose statements on weight loss nowhere close to what we have been told about the camaros weight. They did and would do the same thing we are doing. Hell the car was gaining irs and they still had hope. Why can't we have hope?

I'm just ready for all this to be over and get the reviews rolling in. And I want to drive one. All the childish bickering going on about what will probably be an extra 50-100 lbs worst case scenario is fricking retarded and a waste of life. Let birth control waste all his days sitting on the internet picking apart everything and beating it to death. Nothing wrong with bringing issues to light or making predictions/guesses but my god enough is enough.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

Two extra radiators,a trans cooler,diff cooler and a oil cooler with lines,mounting hardware and fluids add a good chunk of weight.

I never said it would be 300lbs " v6" lighter or implied that anyone else did either. I used the exact same words they did." Close to 300lbs" not "300lbs". See it now? So no its not a statement made by other sites its a statement made by Al O himself. Take a second to reread what I wrote and what's been said by GM.

Unless it's a loss of 275+lbs then the total weight lose is closer to 250. Simple math we all learned very early in life. He also said the SS is over 200lbs lighter. Sorry but its not gonna be 200lbs lighter even if you compare a 2015 1SS with no options to a 2016 1ss with no options. Once that is seen they will say its because the 2016 1SS offers so much more than the last gen and that's why it didn't hit those numbers.

Why do you assume GM is rounding to the nearest 50? If all they've given so far is numbers in 100s, my first thought would be that they're going to the nearest 100. Why 50, why not 25 or 10 or 5? Based on available information they would all be equally valid rounding targets.

And I'd like to see your reasoning for 1SS vs 1SS not being 200 lbs lighter. Because I haven't seen anything that would suggest that so far.

[LesserO2Evils]

Im going to trust what Al.O. said. No reason not to. Love ya, Nasty... But I think you are letting the Doomsday Boys get to ya, man! They dont believe ANY manufacturer. But who can really blame them!? 99 Cobra, anybody? Lol

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

But your acting like you have been lied to even tho weights have not been released. Your paying way to much attention to the pills propaganda. Wait for the weights to be posted, then give us your reponse.

Originally Posted by SuperSound

I won't be wrong or need to admit I was wrong, because I didn't make the promises. Al O. did. So he will be the one who is wrong and who has lied because for months they have reiterated and chosen plain words to the effect that the V6 and T4 will be close to 300lbs lighter than the previous gen model to model and the SS will be at least 200lbs lighter than the previous gen model to model. There is no wiggle room in the statements he has made. We have seen in press releases, videos, and interviews. It will be the greatest lie in recent memory to have a 1SS that is less than 200lbs lighter than a '15 1SS or a V6/T4 that only lost <250lbs (because >250lbs is close to 300lbs in any math approximation).

There's being cautious and there's pessimism. We have been given no reason to be pessimistic about Al's promises, unlike how evasive Ford has been about addressing the GT350's weight. Those two should stand a stark contrast.

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

I don't see what's so special about his predictions or anything else he ever talks about. It is all predictions extrapolated from information anyone can get ahold of.

In this situation we have a car on the same platform and know what it weighs. We know a lot of the different parts it will have and not have in comparison to the ats-v.... Etc etc. his price predictions... Wrong again but bragged he was close...anyone could get close on a price prediction when it's only a few thousand either way. Any idiot could predict it could be tough to hit the weight mark. It's just that he beats it to death and talks about every little thing. Picks everything apart. He needs a new hobby and a life.

As far as who is wrong or who is right. We can't help if we've been lied to. Its no dumber than when a lot of them thought the new gt was dropping weight from random rumors and loose statements on weight loss nowhere close to what we have been told about the camaros weight. They did and would do the same thing we are doing. Hell the car was gaining irs and they still had hope. Why can't we have hope?

I'm just ready for all this to be over and get the reviews rolling in. And I want to drive one. All the childish bickering going on about what will probably be an extra 50-100 lbs worst case scenario is fricking retarded and a waste of life. Let birth control waste all his days sitting on the internet picking apart everything and beating it to death. Nothing wrong with bringing issues to light or making predictions/guesses but my god enough is enough.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Why do you assume GM is rounding to the nearest 50? If all they've given so far is numbers in 100s, my first thought would be that they're going to the nearest 100. Why 50, why not 25 or 10 or 5? Based on available information they would all be equally valid rounding targets.

And I'd like to see your reasoning for 1SS vs 1SS not being 200 lbs lighter. Because I haven't seen anything that would suggest that so far.

Originally Posted by LesserO2Evils

Im going to trust what Al.O. said. No reason not to. Love ya, Nasty... But I think you are letting the Doomsday Boys get to ya, man! They dont believe ANY manufacturer. But who can really blame them!? 99 Cobra, anybody? Lol

I love how just because I don't buy the weight prediction's its because I'm picking up what the pill is putting down. I've read all of the stuff on this forum along with others and any other info I can so my opinion isn't based upon one man. Sorry fellas. I know y'all love to hate him but you can't blame him for this one. Like I've stated before I would love to be wrong but I think GM /Al O. is using a play on words to lead us to think the overall final curb weight will be that low. Had the car been on soley ats parts/chassis then yes i d say it could do it even thought the ats-v couldn't. But its not it shares cts parts which is a heavier car. The new SS also comes with more safety equipment and nicer amenities which also add weight. But have no fear I will lay out enough spoons for all of you so y'all can eat(crow)together if Im correct. If not then I'll only need one spoon for myself. Only time will tell.

[ilirg]

Oh no you will be getting more than one spoon full of crow pal

[jaymsu]

Since people are making random predictions, I'll make one too.

I believe 1LT will come in about 285 lbs lighter than 2015, and 1SS 205 lbs lighter.
If that is wrong and 1SS will be "only" 180 lbs lighter than 2015 1SS, would I cancel my order? Nope.
I'll still pick up my 2SS and beat Mustangs on the track.
I highly doubt many of us will feel the 30-50 lbs difference on a car.

I know, I know.... we hate being lied to... Let's get upset if/when it turns out to be lie indeed.
Until then, stop listening to negative fortune teller and be happy.

[Number 3]

Some of you guys are getting wayyyyyy off track here.

First NO ONE made any "promise" of any weight reduction. You were given status numbers for comparison. That was it.

Stating a program status and not delivering is NOT lying to anyone. You guys were clamoring for weight numbers to salivate over and you got them. So now we have posts on how that can't possibly happen, you were lied to and promises were broken??? I am sitting here laughing as I type this.

The car is off a smaller architecture. It will weigh less.

The car has the LT1 vs the LS3. It has more HP.

The car has a MUCH better interior. It will be more enjoyable to be in.

The car has more technology. It will fit your lifestyle.

It could weigh the same and it would be an awesome car.

Is there a possibility that GM is comparing apples to apples when the Gen 6 doesn't really have an apple to compare to? Maybe. The engines are all different, transmissions are mostly new to the Camaro. MR adds some weight. etc., etc.,

But please stop saying promises were made. They weren't. And please stop saying you were lied to. You weren't. You were given exactly what was asked for. How much less will the Camaro weigh.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

Don't worry I'll have plenty of cream for everyone that's butthurt about the weight being to high like the price is.

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

But have no fear I will lay out enough spoons for all of you so y'all can eat(crow)together if Im correct. If not then I'll only need one spoon for myself. Only time will tell.

Staying with your original theme. We won't be serving crow...

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Some of you guys are getting wayyyyyy off track here.

First NO ONE made any "promise" of any weight reduction. You were given status numbers for comparison. That was it.

Stating a program status and not delivering is NOT lying to anyone. You guys were clamoring for weight numbers to salivate over and you got them. So now we have posts on how that can't possibly happen, you were lied to and promises were broken??? I am sitting here laughing as I type this.

The car is off a smaller architecture. It will weigh less.

The car has the LT1 vs the LS3. It has more HP.

The car has a MUCH better interior. It will be more enjoyable to be in.

The car has more technology. It will fit your lifestyle.

It could weigh the same and it would be an awesome car.

Is there a possibility that GM is comparing apples to apples when the Gen 6 doesn't really have an apple to compare to? Maybe. The engines are all different, transmissions are mostly new to the Camaro. MR adds some weight. etc., etc.,

But please stop saying promises were made. They weren't. And please stop saying you were lied to. You weren't. You were given exactly what was asked for. How much less will the Camaro weigh.

They have stated 200 lbs model for model.

How else can that be taken ?

How is that not a promise ?

That's about as specific as you can get without releasing the weights themselves.
You lost me... Or are you just saying we haven't been lied to yet?

If and when the m6 1ss and 2ss weigh more than 3708 or 3738 respectively with each trims standard options it will in fact be a lie... Period.

And like some have said I'm not sure what crow I will be eating or others. I've just chosen to believe those statements for now. Never made a guarantee or 100s of pages breaking down every part of the car and giving an estimate. If it's heavier... That's annoying and weak sauce on GMs part. I may or may not still buy. I have been thinking corvette more and more lately.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

They have stated 200 lbs model for model.

How else can that be taken ?

How is that not a promise ?

That's about as specific as you can get without releasing the weights themselves.
You lost me... Or are you just saying we haven't been lied to yet?

If and when the m6 1ss and 2ss weigh more than 3708 or 3738 respectively with each trims standard options it will in fact be a lie... Period.

And like some have said I'm not sure what crow I will be eating or others. I've just chosen to believe those statements for now. Never made a guarantee or 100s of pages breaking down every part of the car and giving an estimate. If it's heavier... That's annoying and weak sauce on GMs part. I may or may not still buy. I have been thinking corvette more and more lately.

Seriously? A promise? You really have to be joking.

These are not lies. And we aren't 12 years old. No one promised, guaranteed or in any way made assurances of final numbers.

If you want to have serious technical discussions fine. But even before seeing numbers you want to make this some type of emotional commitment from father GM to the consumer/enthusiast children then WOW is all I have to say.

There were no guarantees, AO did not say, "and I promise to you.....". These were statements made to give you guys what you wanted, general weight numbers for comparison.

If they come in at 189 pounds you are really going to go on a tirade about being "lied to and misled"? Or are you going to go buy the best performing Camaro yet? Unless you are trolling your answer would be B.

Unless you are a Mustang owner butt-hurt about the Camaro being lighter, better, stronger, faster, then this is a non-issue.

Tapping out on this one. Too emotional.

[90503]

This whole debate reminds me of the "prediction/promise" that Chevy made about the Z/28 before it was for sale...."It will weigh 300lbs less than the ZL-1..."....

"Experts" came out to the wood-work that it wasn't enough, it couldn't be done, it can't be done....here's why....etc., etc.,...

Guess what? It came out right at 300lbs lighter...."as promised"....

I see the same thing happening here with the "promised" 200lb model for model loss....a lot of interest, disagreement, debate, "emotion", etc...

When they come out 200lbs less "as promised" all this will be forgotten....


The poor 5thGen took a lot of criticism from many points of view as being much too heavy for a performance/muscle-car/pony-car/track car....The 6thGen was going to be a quantum leap forward/improvement over the 5thGen, including the much needed over-all weight reduction department....Was this a promise? I would think so....and it was continued and verified with Al O's subsequent statements regarding the 200lb model for model weight loss...


Al O's interview regarding weight loss...He even states they went beyond what Caddie was doing for weight loss....Skip to around 6:00 min mark, and then @24 min mark, if you don't want to watch the whole thing (it's a good interview overall)...