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Old 04-20-2015, 05:08 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post
Guess he thinks GM is going to make the same mistake Ford did with the new Mustang. Over promise and under deliver.
I would rather see under promise and over deliver myself.
The difference is Ford never came out publicly and said there was a weight loss of XXX amount. GM is publicly stating the 6th gen will lose at least 200 lbs curb weight.
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:29 PM   #296
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The difference is Ford never came out publicly and said there was a weight loss of XXX amount. GM is publicly stating the 6th gen will lose at least 200 lbs curb weight.
You nailed it. Ford just said that some components lost weight, but never said the whole car like Chevy did. Ford also didn't say other components gained weight. Funny how they mention one yet not the other.
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:42 PM   #297
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I'm gonna say as crazy as it sounds until we have one on the scales you have to at least entertain the idea of him being some what right. I honestly think gm is comparingntye heaviest 5th gen to the lightest 6th gen to get those numbers. I hope dearly that I'm wrong but I doubt a 5th and 6th gen will weigh 200lbs difference when having the same options. Maybe 50-100lbs at best.
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:51 PM   #298
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The difference is Ford never came out publicly and said there was a weight loss of XXX amount. GM is publicly stating the 6th gen will lose at least 200 lbs curb weight.
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You nailed it. Ford just said that some components lost weight, but never said the whole car like Chevy did. Ford also didn't say other components gained weight. Funny how they mention one yet not the other.
I didn't say they said it would lose weight, I said they over promised and under delivered. In many performance areas the new Mustang was not superior to the old Mustang in performance.
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:58 PM   #299
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I'm gonna say as crazy as it sounds until we have one on the scales you have to at least entertain the idea of him being some what right. I honestly think gm is comparingntye heaviest 5th gen to the lightest 6th gen to get those numbers. I hope dearly that I'm wrong but I doubt a 5th and 6th gen will weigh 200lbs difference when having the same options. Maybe 50-100lbs at best.
More likely the weight is direct comparison to previous model excluding any options. Think 1SS with no options. I'm betting our option packages will look similar to the C7. A lot of people are expecting the interior updates and features to weight a lot. The Malibu proves they can build a nice modern interior and still save weight. But at the same I fully expect a loaded (3SS?) with MRC to weight at least 3900-4000lbs still.
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:40 PM   #300
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I'm gonna say as crazy as it sounds until we have one on the scales you have to at least entertain the idea of him being some what right. I honestly think gm is comparingntye heaviest 5th gen to the lightest 6th gen to get those numbers. I hope dearly that I'm wrong but I doubt a 5th and 6th gen will weigh 200lbs difference when having the same options. Maybe 50-100lbs at best.
Your diplomacy is noted, but the guy who wrote that on the Mustang board is clearly scraping at the ground trying to deny reality. The post has NO merit.

Allow me to...hrm..."counter" his argument:

Firstly...GM, specifically the Camaro team and Al Oppenheiser, does not over-promise and under-deliver. There's no history of this, because they get crucified for every hiccup, and they know it. They also don't tweak numbers to make a good story - because they don't have to. Al and his engineering team take a ton of pride in building a car that backs up what they say.

Secondly, look at a Cadillac ATS V6 vs a Camaro 2LT V6 weight. The ATS coupe is the closest chassis setup to compare to the new Camaro. It's a coupe...it's on the alpha platform...it's RWD...and it uses the same engine.

Cadillac ATS coupe RWD: 3530lbs
Camaro V6 2LT coupe RWD: 3802lbs.

Difference in weight is approximately 272 lbs.

Thirdly, don't forget: Al and his team have also spec'd 70% new components for SIX vs existing company cars, including aluminum and composite suspension components. And they are well aware of the weight issue.

The new car will weigh at least 200 pounds less than the existing car, trim for trim - mark my words. Don't let any skurrt Mustang postings convince you otherwise.

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Old 04-20-2015, 07:30 PM   #301
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I firmly believe the lower trims will lose close to the 200 number while the performance variants will see higher weight loss numbers. The composites will be used on the SS and above whereas the lower cars will get the cheaper to produce parts. Not interpreted lesser quality, but heavier cast parts that are cheaper to produce.
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:55 PM   #302
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To be clear, anyone that thinks an SS won't be 200 pounds less spec for spec is just being a pessimist.

The man said the car would weigh 200 pounds less. He didn't say "some models could weigh 200 pounds or more less".

This is going to be a very small car, ladies and gentlemen. And for all the aluminium and composites they are talking about for Gen6????? They are also already in the ATS and CTS.

For those of you that keep telling yourselves that the car won't be small and will actually be built on the larger CTS variant???? The CTS V-Sport with the 3.6 TT making the same HP as my Zeta based SS weighs what???? 4,000 pounds. And that is with hugely expensive aluminium doors all around.

So take the Alpha coupe/ Gen 5 coupe comparison Dragaonerrrrrrrrrr Mr. Wyndham referemced. Now take that car and add the LT1 and V8 level of drivetrain enhancements and you will add around 125 to 150 pounds minimum. But that gets you around 3,700 pounds for an SS give or take.

I can't imagine GM has CF or aluminium panels in a $22,000 car. Now will they make alternate constructions for an SS? Maybe. For an ZL1, more likely. A Z/28? Quite probably.

The car is going to lose the weight across the board simply because it's smaller. It will also be better in almost every other way.

Interior remains the mystery. 1 month to go.

And as usual......JMO
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:48 PM   #303
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To be clear, anyone that thinks an SS won't be 200 pounds less spec for spec is just being a pessimist.

The man said the car would weigh 200 pounds less. He didn't say "some models could weigh 200 pounds or more less".

This is going to be a very small car, ladies and gentlemen. And for all the aluminium and composites they are talking about for Gen6????? They are also already in the ATS and CTS.

For those of you that keep telling yourselves that the car won't be small and will actually be built on the larger CTS variant???? The CTS V-Sport with the 3.6 TT making the same HP as my Zeta based SS weighs what???? 4,000 pounds. And that is with hugely expensive aluminium doors all around.

So take the Alpha coupe/ Gen 5 coupe comparison Dragaonerrrrrrrrrr Mr. Wyndham referemced. Now take that car and add the LT1 and V8 level of drivetrain enhancements and you will add around 125 to 150 pounds minimum. But that gets you around 3,700 pounds for an SS give or take.

I can't imagine GM has CF or aluminium panels in a $22,000 car. Now will they make alternate constructions for an SS? Maybe. For an ZL1, more likely. A Z/28? Quite probably.

The car is going to lose the weight across the board simply because it's smaller. It will also be better in almost every other way.

Interior remains the mystery. 1 month to go.

And as usual......JMO
Well i suppose "very small" is objective.
6amaro will be in between ats and cts size IMO, and i hope there was enough a$$ on the 5th Gen that they were able to keep interior dimensions if not increased them in the "right" ways. The car certainly doesn't look very small.
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:16 PM   #304
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3. Alpha-Platform Awesomeness

We already know how spectacular GM’s Alpha platform translates to driving dynamics, as seen in the Cadillac ATS and CTS. The platform was engineered from the beginning for sublime driving feel, light weight and can support a variety of engine specifications, including forced-induction. The current Camaro’s Zeta bones are simply too bulky, but we’ve seen what clever engineering can make out of it. Just look at the 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28. The platform has been specifically adjusted for the 2016 Camaro to fit the car’s proportions, and features a unique dash-to-axle to support the car’s iconic profile. With the 2016 Camaro riding on Alpha, expect superior driving dynamics, and most importantly, for the car to go on a much needed diet.

From the list of 10 things to expect....^^^^^^^^^^^

Sounds like they adjusted things to keep it looking the same as the 5thGen, but were still able to lose weight....Just sayin' it doesn't sound like the Camaro will appear"very small"....rather more the same size we are familiar with...
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:26 PM   #305
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Well i suppose "very small" is objective.
6amaro will be in between ats and cts size IMO, and i hope there was enough a$$ on the 5th Gen that they were able to keep interior dimensions if not increased them in the "right" ways. The car certainly doesn't look very small.
Ohhhh there won't be any increases. There won't be many ways to somehow make the Chevy roomier than the same Cadillac.

If you guys keep poking at this I'll take that picture in my garage of an ATS and Zeta sedan. Huge difference.

Keep in mind Alpha doesn't really have 2 sizes. It has 2 wheel bases. The other difference in CTS vs ATS are done with track adjustments in the chassis and making the body wider. Pretty sure the front floor pan is common for both. But that is what common architecture means.
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:29 PM   #306
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What do you call Very Small? I don't think it's going to be as small as you are thinking based on the pictures I have seen.
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:30 PM   #307
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Well i suppose "very small" is objective.
6amaro will be in between ats and cts size IMO, and i hope there was enough a$$ on the 5th Gen that they were able to keep interior dimensions if not increased them in the "right" ways. The car certainly doesn't look very small.
Proportions can be deceiving in pictures. If you zoom in on an object that is scaled down proportionally from another, identically-shaped object...they will look the same.

If they're using Alpha, they're using short-wheelbase Alpha, otherwise it'd be a behemoth, and no chance of weight savings as number 3 alluded to. If it's short wheelbase Alpha, then it's the size of an ATS. Which is noticeably smaller than a gen 5 Camaro. A mere inch or two can make a car feel smaller or larger than another.

We'll see in May. But all signs point to smaller. Just like we (as a group) asked for...
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:33 PM   #308
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Ohhhh there won't be any increases. There won't be many ways to somehow make the Chevy roomier than the same Cadillac.

If you guys keep poking at this I'll take that picture in my garage of an ATS and Zeta sedan. Huge difference.

Keep in mind Alpha doesn't really have 2 sizes. It has 2 wheel bases. The other difference in CTS vs ATS are done with track adjustments in the chassis and making the body wider. Pretty sure the front floor pan is common for both. But that is what common architecture means.
What if we start with the idea that the 5th gen is a fat pig

Ok...hypothetical: could the 6amaro keep same wheelbase and still get smaller?

anyway, i predict a 110.5 in wheelbase, 182 in overall.

I still don't get the whole architecture thing...can the cts-v and ats-v have different overall length's? If so, how is it not a different size?
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