Whipple HELP

OnThr3 · 05-08-2020, 12:53 PM

Preface: 2018 SS A8 MODS: Axleback exhaust only

I recently installed a whipple with my father (who built cars/engines his whole life) and had nothing but issues. The install itself wasn't terrible. We followed all the directions and took our time so install took around 25 hours to complete. Biggest thing we had trouble with was putting the AC belt on but we had the dealership do it and they got it on for us. Now for the most frustrating part.... the tune. It has been a little over a month since the car has had the whipple on first start was great let it idle for a long time (all on the whipple supplied tune.) It was late so the next day we go for the first drive. Drive the car barely cruising around and once I gave it any throttle ANY throttle... spark blowout car sounds like its 2 stepping with any throttle at all. We changed the plugs during the install and gapped them to .035 just as the instructions had told us to do. Ok no big deal right? Contacted the whipple "engineer" that had done my tune and whom was assigned to my case and he told me to change the gap from the plugs from .035 to .027. Ok no big deal. We did so loaded his new tune with the appropriate gap that was expected same problem probably worse. The "engineer" has sent me over 10 revisions to the same tune and nothing will work still 2 step backfires under any load at all. Finally the guy finds "the problem." Tells me to go to the dealership and have my Operating System updated and tells me that will fix it. Call the dealership, schedule an appointment for the next day, costs about 200 dollars to have the OS updated, get the car back, load the new tune with the updated OS. DOESN'T WORK. SAME ISSUE. The engineer gives me another 3 more revised tune files and none of them fixes the problem. At this point we are pissed. I called whipple and asked if I could speak to a higher up to take my case and see what's going on with the car. They tell me no you have an engineer assigned to your case only thing you can do is correspond with him. It was the weekend at this point and I needed a break. Finally when Monday comes the "engineer" tells me "we have never had luck running plugs with that low of gap. Change it back to .035". NICE TUNE WHIPPLE $7,000 dollars worth for sure. Call a local tuner looks at the tune for 5 minutes and tells me everything wrong with it tells me i'm still getting spark blowout. We decide to go with BRISK silver plugs and gap them to .022 fixes the spark blowout car runs 90% better than it did. It still missfires at 4th and 5th gear around 5,500 rpm on up. This has been an absolute hell of a ride to go on and I'm still looking for feedback on what could be causing this issue. We did a smoke test on the supercharger itself and know its not leaking. We are getting 3 codes. The first code at this point is a throttle position sensor code, the second is a catalyst code (we aren't too worried about this one as we know it is getting messed up from having boost), and a MAF sensor code. Has anyone experienced cutting out at high rpms almost like a stutter with a supercharger? PLEASE HELP.

edit: My tuner and I took a long look through the logs and found I'm running above average boost at almost 8.5 pounds.... note: 3.625 upper Whipple pulley. Could this be causing that cutout in high rpm's under WOT??? I know with longtubes and a full exhaust it'll drop my boost a bit so could that solve the issue??

laynlo15 · 05-08-2020, 01:39 PM

Hopefully Kinglt1 will know whats going on, he is pretty experienced with the Whipple's. I've always had good luck with the NGK and gapped mine at 28. Lots of guys are running the Brisk and really like them. Wish I could help but just now sure what you have going one. Do you have HP Tuners? If not you should get it and you can log when ever you have issue. Mpvi2 is the best one and you should consider buying an Afr gauge from AEM and then with the MPvi2 you can add another 02 bung and hook that up so you can log your AFR also. Good luck

Joshinator99 · 05-08-2020, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laynlo15

Hopefully Kinglt1 will know whats going on, he is pretty experienced with the Whipple's. I've always had good luck with the NGK and gapped mine at 28. Lots of guys are running the Brisk and really like them. Wish I could help but just now sure what you have going one. Do you have HP Tuners? If not you should get it and you can log when ever you have issue. Mpvi2 is the best one and you should consider buying an Afr gauge from AEM and then with the MPvi2 you can add another 02 bung and hook that up so you can log your AFR also. Good luck

Same here, running a Whipple 2.9 with the Whipple-recommended NGK LTR6IX-11 plugs gapped at .035". No issues at all.

KingLT1 and others have said it since day one: don't use canned tunes. I went custom right out of the box and it made the process so much better.

Good advice by Laynlo: get yourself HP Tuners and the AEM wideband. Then you can see what's up.

OnThr3 · 05-08-2020, 02:12 PM

I am no longer on a canned tune and I do have HP tuners MPVI2 thats how I was data logging for the whipple "engineer." my tuner is using a dyno and a wideband at this point. Could dirty valves be causing cutouts like this up top? I guess another point of failure right now is at 1100 rpm and 1400 rpm when I am barely touching the throttle it feels jerky almost like a misfire but not... I am logging misfires on all 8 cylinders btw just hard to find the source of the problem...

LT1ornothing · 05-08-2020, 03:28 PM

I am no whipple expert at all, however, I have experienced similar symptoms on an older 90s automatic v8 that was bone stock. It turned out to be completely clogged catalytic converters. The car was trying to exhale through a pinched coffee straw. I had part throttle issues as well as complete choking 1500 rpm below redline. Well, I took a hammer and a spike, gutted both cats, put the pipe back on, started it up and all was cured. I've heard of forced induction clogging cats before, and a bad tune can definitely do it. Whatever the problem turns out to be, hope you fix it soon, I'd be devastated in this situation.

OnThr3 · 05-08-2020, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1LEornothing

I am no whipple expert at all, however, I have experienced similar symptoms on an older 90s automatic v8 that was bone stock. It turned out to be completely clogged catalytic converters. The car was trying to exhale through a pinched coffee straw. I had part throttle issues as well as complete choking 1500 rpm below redline. Well, I took a hammer and a spike, gutted both cats, put the pipe back on, started it up and all was cured. I've heard of forced induction clogging cats before, and a bad tune can definitely do it. Whatever the problem turns out to be, hope you fix it soon, I'd be devastated in this situation.

Im gonna give it a try guess I have a good excuse to buy headers and an X pipe.

trust me I gave whipple a good scream very unsatisfied with their service and product so far.. ty again for the input and ill keep everyone updated.

OnThr3 · 05-09-2020, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heater

are maf, throttle sensor on the same harness that is throwing the catalyst code too?

Have you checked all your grounds?

If i am not mistaken there is a ground on the front of the block right under the maf area/ throttle sensor, by the AC pulley. I would make sure it is clean because i think it gets removed during install for the pulley too, so if you installed it and does not have a clean surface it might be causing issues. I would check all the sensors for that matter. Dialectic grease on the plugs too, check for spark jumping at night or with water.

Is it possible to show a picture of the ground you are talking about? Also, what do you mean by "are the maf and throttle sensor on the same harness"? We decided to buy a brand new MAF sensor and put that in still the same problems. In the whipple kit a new MAF adapter is provided. I am interested in this ground perhaps... If you could send a picture where its located ill look into it.

UPDATE: Bought headers and X pipe to REMOVE the pesky cats once and for all.... 2 codes to go..

KingLT1 · 05-09-2020, 01:23 PM

Sorry to hear you are having issues. Without seeing your tune it's hard to say what is wrong. I doubt it's the plugs. I run NGK 7 heat range with no issue. I also doubt you ruined the cats that fast unless you were running really rich and doing wot pulls. I would suggest a competent Gen 5 tuner. Ted Jenetty, EFX tuning, GPI...etc. Don't think Pray Performance will remote tune FI cars anymore unless they have forged pistons.

That being said the codes are the reason it's running the way it's. Just have to figure out why they are popping up. Could be the harness that breaks the IAT sensor out of the Maf so can read Manifold air temp?

Tim M · 05-10-2020, 02:47 AM

I don't have a Whipple either, but recently added an LT4 supercharger to my stock LT1.

I can't help you with the codes, but...

I remote tuned with Jannetty and as much skepticism I had of doing a tune from another continent - he zeroed me in after just 7 logs/programs - obviously following his profile and sneaking up on the final tune to preserve the engine.

With that financial investment, certainly should cut your losses and go with a known quantity on Gen V LT's or else experience (more) damage.

I'm running one heat range cooler plug gapped at .040 (LTR6IX-11). Absolutely no issues to 6800 rpm.

OnThr3 · 05-10-2020, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Sorry to hear you are having issues. Without seeing your tune it's hard to say what is wrong. I doubt it's the plugs. I run NGK 7 heat range with no issue. I also doubt you ruined the cats that fast unless you were running really rich and doing wot pulls. I would suggest a competent Gen 5 tuner. Ted Jenetty, EFX tuning, GPI...etc. Don't think Pray Performance will remote tune FI cars anymore unless they have forged pistons.

That being said the codes are the reason it's running the way it's. Just have to figure out why they are popping up. Could be the harness that breaks the IAT sensor out of the Maf so can read Manifold air temp?

I don't believe it is the plugs either... but I don't think its the tune. It has to be something mechanical at this point. The problem areas are cruising/maintaining speed at 1100 rpms and 1400 rpms and above 5500 rpms in 3rd gear on... I got headers and the x pipe to eliminate the cat codes... I do believe that from my grade A whipple engineer telling me to do WOT after WOT on a misfiring car from spark blowout could definitly cause the cats to overheat and melt. I shouldv't ditched the whipple guy as soon as he said are you sure your not losing traction??? GOD HELP ME. "no you dumbass I know what traction cutout is that's not the problem... "ooo well just go datalog some more WOT pulls with a misfiring car"

I do believe that the TPS code and the MAF code are causing something to go out of whack. waiting on the pipes to get in before I start searching for the problem and getting more headaches

OnThr3 · 05-10-2020, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heater

The ground is coming off the harness on the drivers side with the injector plugs. I would also any sensor/plug removed to confirm it is fully seated. For the ground, if debris got between the ground and block or it has a bad connection issues could occur.

The other thing that might help is checking to make sure all your spark is conducted properly, because if their is spark jump you will get random misses.

Also a less likely thing to check is if used any plugs on any ports around the car during the install, and forgot to remove said plug or somehow something got in a line without you noticing.

Good luck, small issues can cause headaches but once found they can easily be forgotten

Thank you Heater I will definitely look at that and make sure its clean/placed properly and securely. I appreciate your pictures as well and taking the time. I will keep you guys updated...

OnThr3 · 05-10-2020, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

I don't have a Whipple either, but recently added an LT4 supercharger to my stock LT1.

I can't help you with the codes, but...

I remote tuned with Jannetty and as much skepticism I had of doing a tune from another continent - he zeroed me in after just 7 logs/programs - obviously following his profile and sneaking up on the final tune to preserve the engine.

With that financial investment, certainly should cut your losses and go with a known quantity on Gen V LT's or else experience (more) damage.

I'm running one heat range cooler plug gapped at .040 (LTR6IX-11). Absolutely no issues to 6800 rpm.

No offense man... I will NEVER EVER do another remote tune in my life again. If whipple can't tune their own product on a stock car plus with the insult to injury of not helping a customer out $7 grand later I have no faith in remote tuning. I believe in my tuner's ability and he has gone above and beyond to make the car right.

Tim M · 05-10-2020, 12:55 PM

Don't believe you ought to lump all remote tuners in with Whipple who specializes in making superchargers for various cars.

I would always search out the expert on that particular model vice a local especially with the current direct injection offerings. Admittedly, I also insisted in using a dyno vice just street tune.

Likely you have more of an installation or car issue than a tune issue. A tuner won't fix codes - I even had that when I didn't connect my EVAP and had an error. Jannetty insisted that I correct before continuing - I wasn't going to argue.

Good luck on your project.

OnThr3 · 05-25-2020, 02:08 PM

UPDATE: The MAF code is fixed and the cats are fully gone with the help of the longtubes and x pipe 2/3 codes have been solved. In addition the little stutter at 1100rpm and 1400rpms were being caused by the car switching into v4 mode

TOTALY FORGOT ABOUT THAT. Anyways we disabled the AFR and solved that problem as well. WE HAVE ONE MORE CODE and CANT figure it out guys :C

P0121 trottle position sensor code! symptoms: hesitation/stutter when given heavy throttle. If anyone has any input as to what this could be please let me know!!!!

05-08-2020, 12:53 PM	#1
OnThr3 Drives: 2018 Chevy Camaro ss Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Missouri Posts: 28	Whipple HELP Preface: 2018 SS A8 MODS: Axleback exhaust only I recently installed a whipple with my father (who built cars/engines his whole life) and had nothing but issues. The install itself wasn't terrible. We followed all the directions and took our time so install took around 25 hours to complete. Biggest thing we had trouble with was putting the AC belt on but we had the dealership do it and they got it on for us. Now for the most frustrating part.... the tune. It has been a little over a month since the car has had the whipple on first start was great let it idle for a long time (all on the whipple supplied tune.) It was late so the next day we go for the first drive. Drive the car barely cruising around and once I gave it any throttle ANY throttle... spark blowout car sounds like its 2 stepping with any throttle at all. We changed the plugs during the install and gapped them to .035 just as the instructions had told us to do. Ok no big deal right? Contacted the whipple "engineer" that had done my tune and whom was assigned to my case and he told me to change the gap from the plugs from .035 to .027. Ok no big deal. We did so loaded his new tune with the appropriate gap that was expected same problem probably worse. The "engineer" has sent me over 10 revisions to the same tune and nothing will work still 2 step backfires under any load at all. Finally the guy finds "the problem." Tells me to go to the dealership and have my Operating System updated and tells me that will fix it. Call the dealership, schedule an appointment for the next day, costs about 200 dollars to have the OS updated, get the car back, load the new tune with the updated OS. DOESN'T WORK. SAME ISSUE. The engineer gives me another 3 more revised tune files and none of them fixes the problem. At this point we are pissed. I called whipple and asked if I could speak to a higher up to take my case and see what's going on with the car. They tell me no you have an engineer assigned to your case only thing you can do is correspond with him. It was the weekend at this point and I needed a break. Finally when Monday comes the "engineer" tells me "we have never had luck running plugs with that low of gap. Change it back to .035". NICE TUNE WHIPPLE $7,000 dollars worth for sure. Call a local tuner looks at the tune for 5 minutes and tells me everything wrong with it tells me i'm still getting spark blowout. We decide to go with BRISK silver plugs and gap them to .022 fixes the spark blowout car runs 90% better than it did. It still missfires at 4th and 5th gear around 5,500 rpm on up. This has been an absolute hell of a ride to go on and I'm still looking for feedback on what could be causing this issue. We did a smoke test on the supercharger itself and know its not leaking. We are getting 3 codes. The first code at this point is a throttle position sensor code, the second is a catalyst code (we aren't too worried about this one as we know it is getting messed up from having boost), and a MAF sensor code. Has anyone experienced cutting out at high rpms almost like a stutter with a supercharger? PLEASE HELP. edit: My tuner and I took a long look through the logs and found I'm running above average boost at almost 8.5 pounds.... note: 3.625 upper Whipple pulley. Could this be causing that cutout in high rpm's under WOT??? I know with longtubes and a full exhaust it'll drop my boost a bit so could that solve the issue?? Last edited by OnThr3; 05-10-2020 at 10:51 AM.

05-08-2020, 01:39 PM	#2
laynlo15 Drives: 2022 Lt1 A10 Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: clark, mo Posts: 8,860	Hopefully Kinglt1 will know whats going on, he is pretty experienced with the Whipple's. I've always had good luck with the NGK and gapped mine at 28. Lots of guys are running the Brisk and really like them. Wish I could help but just now sure what you have going one. Do you have HP Tuners? If not you should get it and you can log when ever you have issue. Mpvi2 is the best one and you should consider buying an Afr gauge from AEM and then with the MPvi2 you can add another 02 bung and hook that up so you can log your AFR also. Good luck __________________ 2022 Lt1 6.2 A10, Maggie 2300, THPSI Port Inj/10 rib, Rotofab, E, Nickey, SCOL, Griptech, RC Bandits, Hoosiers/MT 9.80@142.96 1.44 60ft, 6.34@112 707/669 RWHP/TRQ. 16SS Maggie 2650 9.41@147 1.35 60ft, 5.99@119. 16 C7 A8 10.90@128 Bolt on stuff

05-09-2020, 01:23 PM	#8
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,797	Sorry to hear you are having issues. Without seeing your tune it's hard to say what is wrong. I doubt it's the plugs. I run NGK 7 heat range with no issue. I also doubt you ruined the cats that fast unless you were running really rich and doing wot pulls. I would suggest a competent Gen 5 tuner. Ted Jenetty, EFX tuning, GPI...etc. Don't think Pray Performance will remote tune FI cars anymore unless they have forged pistons. That being said the codes are the reason it's running the way it's. Just have to figure out why they are popping up. Could be the harness that breaks the IAT sensor out of the Maf so can read Manifold air temp? __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8 Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA

05-10-2020, 02:47 AM	#9
Tim M Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 807	I don't have a Whipple either, but recently added an LT4 supercharger to my stock LT1. I can't help you with the codes, but... I remote tuned with Jannetty and as much skepticism I had of doing a tune from another continent - he zeroed me in after just 7 logs/programs - obviously following his profile and sneaking up on the final tune to preserve the engine. With that financial investment, certainly should cut your losses and go with a known quantity on Gen V LT's or else experience (more) damage. I'm running one heat range cooler plug gapped at .040 (LTR6IX-11). Absolutely no issues to 6800 rpm. __________________ 2018 SS 1LE German Based Nurburgring Visit #19 Ring Laps: 77

05-10-2020, 12:55 PM	#13
Tim M Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 807	Don't believe you ought to lump all remote tuners in with Whipple who specializes in making superchargers for various cars. I would always search out the expert on that particular model vice a local especially with the current direct injection offerings. Admittedly, I also insisted in using a dyno vice just street tune. Likely you have more of an installation or car issue than a tune issue. A tuner won't fix codes - I even had that when I didn't connect my EVAP and had an error. Jannetty insisted that I correct before continuing - I wasn't going to argue. Good luck on your project. __________________ 2018 SS 1LE German Based Nurburgring Visit #19 Ring Laps: 77

05-08-2020, 02:12 PM	#4
OnThr3 Drives: 2018 Chevy Camaro ss Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Missouri Posts: 28	I am no longer on a canned tune and I do have HP tuners MPVI2 thats how I was data logging for the whipple "engineer." my tuner is using a dyno and a wideband at this point. Could dirty valves be causing cutouts like this up top? I guess another point of failure right now is at 1100 rpm and 1400 rpm when I am barely touching the throttle it feels jerky almost like a misfire but not... I am logging misfires on all 8 cylinders btw just hard to find the source of the problem...

05-08-2020, 03:28 PM	#5
LT1ornothing Drives: 2020 LT1 M6 Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: South, the DEEP south Posts: 1,114	I am no whipple expert at all, however, I have experienced similar symptoms on an older 90s automatic v8 that was bone stock. It turned out to be completely clogged catalytic converters. The car was trying to exhale through a pinched coffee straw. I had part throttle issues as well as complete choking 1500 rpm below redline. Well, I took a hammer and a spike, gutted both cats, put the pipe back on, started it up and all was cured. I've heard of forced induction clogging cats before, and a bad tune can definitely do it. Whatever the problem turns out to be, hope you fix it soon, I'd be devastated in this situation.

05-25-2020, 02:08 PM	#14
OnThr3 Drives: 2018 Chevy Camaro ss Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Missouri Posts: 28	UPDATE: The MAF code is fixed and the cats are fully gone with the help of the longtubes and x pipe 2/3 codes have been solved. In addition the little stutter at 1100rpm and 1400rpms were being caused by the car switching into v4 mode TOTALY FORGOT ABOUT THAT. Anyways we disabled the AFR and solved that problem as well. WE HAVE ONE MORE CODE and CANT figure it out guys :C P0121 trottle position sensor code! symptoms: hesitation/stutter when given heavy throttle. If anyone has any input as to what this could be please let me know!!!!

User Name		Remember Me?
Password