[Black Hole]

Goals: Effective street performance, meaning more concerned with 0-60 than top speed; effective drag strip performance, leaning toward 1/8 mile ET. Low mileage daily driver who likes to go straight; not worried about "twisties."

Question: Does anyone have experience using 20" drag radials AND 17" or smaller Drag Pack for comparison so I can learn the following -
1. For a bone stock vehicle, are the 20's up to the task of holding full throttle off the line or do I need a smaller diameter wheel?
2. For a slightly modded vehicle (+50 hp), are the 20's up to the task of holding full throttle off the line, or do I need a smaller diameter wheel?

I currently run Toyo R888R comp tires but they are not meeting my needs. I am looking at the MT ET Street in the 285/30/20 or picking up 17" or smaller wheels (the Weld 15's look especially nice, though pricey) and MT ET Streets to match.

Let's assume track prep and DA conditions are "average." I appreciate your insights. Thanks in advance!

[Snowblind]

I have 10 second timeslips from both, a 20" DR and a 17" DR. I currently run the 17 for weight savings and more sidewall. I swear by the Mickeys but only track them.

How each of them would perform on the street,traction wise, I have no idea.

A 15" Weld wheel would require the aftermarket small brake package.

[Drsagacity]

I have been trying to get to the bottom of this exact same conversation and haven’t really been able to quantify the difference.

Was also told that switching to 17’s on backnwithout doing something similar on front would probably not be worth the effort.

I am disappointed to hear the Toyo’s aren’t cutting it...it seems like the best option on paper.

@snowblind, did you see a difference in trap speed with the 17’s?

[ULTRAZLS1]

17x4.5 front wheels will drop a tenth compared to full size stock fronts.

I actually have some for sale in the classifieds

[danhr]

for the rear, both will give you sufficient traction, buuuttttt

a) you will be faster with the 17s

b)you will have more tire selection with 17s

c)tires will be cheaper with 17s

d)you will have the luxury of having "track dedicated" wheels/tires.

e)skinnies are not NEEDED to run 17's, or 15s in the back. but they help and get you some easy ET

[Snowblind]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

17x4.5 front wheels will drop a tenth compared to full size stock fronts.

I actually have some for sale in the classifieds

I thought you sold them, I must have had a brain fart. Their is a guy on FB looking for a set, I'll shoot him a PM.

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

I have been trying to get to the bottom of this exact same conversation and haven’t really been able to quantify the difference.

Was also told that switching to 17’s on backnwithout doing something similar on front would probably not be worth the effort.

I am disappointed to hear the Toyo’s aren’t cutting it...it seems like the best option on paper.

@snowblind, did you see a difference in trap speed with the 17’s?

Traps were about the same.
For the cost of the Welds and the conversion it doesn't make sense, especially being stock. If it were me, I would buy the 20" MT DR and take the dough you saved to start modding. When the 20's can't keep up then step up to a smaller wheel.

Edit; I just saw your mod list Drsagacity and I was commented on the OP's situation, you def need to get into a smaller wheel/larger sidewall. That PD must be a monster from the hit.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Snowblind

I thought you sold them, I must have had a brain fart. Their is a guy on FB looking for a set, I'll shoot him a PM.



Traps were about the same.
For the cost of the Welds and the conversion it doesn't make sense, especially being stock. If it were me, I would buy the 20" MT DR and take the dough you saved to start modding. When the 20's can't keep up then step up to a smaller wheel.

Edit; I just saw your mod list Drsagacity and I was commented on the OP's situation, you def need to get into a smaller wheel/larger sidewall. That PD must be a monster from the hit.

I sold a set of front tires without wheels. That’s probably the confusion. These come with 26 tall bias fronts. It’s all in the classifieds

Thanks man!

[Black Hole]

Appreciate the responses.

Snowblind - would you happen to be able to pinpoint the exact ET difference between the 20s and the 17s on your 10-sec passes, assuming your other mods were the same for both? Also curious as to how much of an improvement the 3.73s gave you.

My ultimate build would be to follow a path similar to the Chevy performance 10-sec recommendation, which would include the Welds, small rear brake kit, headers, high stall converter, tune, etc. In the interim, wondering if it made sense to use the 20s until I have the full build ready, likely 6 months away.

In case someone wonders, we want to steer clear of power adders (supercharger/ N2O) and have been warned by local tuners against e85.

[danhr]

Originally Posted by Black Hole

have been warned by local tuners against e85.

You will probably find that 90% of the members on here, to include tuners, would strongly disagree with your local tuners on this.

E85 is by far, the best bang for your buck bolt on modification.

Unless there is something weird in the e85 in your neighborhood, I would take that as a sign to look at other tuners or maybe a remote tuner from here.

[Trackman]

From the weight reduction and improved 60' you'll gain a tenth with skinnies on the front and maybe another 2 tenths with 17's on the back.

[Chevy71]

Originally Posted by danhr

You will probably find that 90% of the members on here, to include tuners, would strongly disagree with your local tuners on this.

E85 is by far, the best bang for your buck bolt on modification.

Unless there is something weird in the e85 in your neighborhood, I would take that as a sign to look at other tuners or maybe a remote tuner from here.

I could not agree with this more. E85 produces more power, burns cooler and cleaner. cost to HP gain ratio with E85 is towards the top and the ability to go back to stock is the easiest. I would be very leery of any tuner telling you to steer clear, especially if they know you want a fast N/A car.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Yep. E85 is tits. End of story

[Black Hole]

The tuner was very adamant regarding the e85 - indicating his problem with it was that the flex fuel sensor would not adjust timing, only the fueling, so detonation (and subsequent "blown" motor) was not only possible - he had seen it happen many times. Perhaps those folks are the remaining 10% @danhr alluded to.


Every time I check on the ship status of the new MTs, they are delayed even further. I wonder if anyone has even been able to get a set yet; i.e. are they delayed in entirety or is it that MT can;t keep up with demand.

[Chevy71]

Originally Posted by Black Hole

The tuner was very adamant regarding the e85 - indicating his problem with it was that the flex fuel sensor would not adjust timing, only the fueling, so detonation (and subsequent "blown" motor) was not only possible - he had seen it happen many times. Perhaps those folks are the remaining 10% @danhr alluded to.


Every time I check on the ship status of the new MTs, they are delayed even further. I wonder if anyone has even been able to get a set yet; i.e. are they delayed in entirety or is it that MT can;t keep up with demand.

Man, I can tell you I have never seen a flex sensor do half its job. I have seen them do nothing at all, but even that is rare.

I have never had an issue getting my Mickeys, but I have not ordered any since last summer. I hope they aren't slowing up or going away. This has been my go to tire for some time now.