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Old 05-11-2016, 10:44 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by mjk3888 View Post
Viper did it with the ACR granted it took 512 cubic inches.
Right! And, that engine is a monster for sure.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:45 AM   #240
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THIS ^ Yes the Voodoo is proof you can still get over 500HP N/A, but look how they had to do it, it revs to over 8K with its FPC. they had to make it rev to the moon to get the power they wanted. Over 500HP N/A is getting harder and harder to do.
That is because Ford uses a modular engine design, so the engine had to share a bore spacing and deck height. Short story is, they couldn't go much higher in displacement, and FI was out of the questions, so revs are the only thing left.

In GM's case, they are already starting out at a larger 6.2L, and the small block can go up to at least 7.0L, so it won't need as many revs.

And, the LTx is now DI, which means you can go higher compression as well.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:49 AM   #241
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Why do you guys keep getting stuck on a 7.0? You don't need an engine that size to make over 500hp n/a.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:50 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001 View Post
That is because Ford uses a modular engine design, so the engine had to share a bore spacing and deck height. Short story is, they couldn't go much higher in displacement, and FI was out of the questions, so revs are the only thing left.

In GM's case, they are already starting out at a larger 6.2L, and the small block can go up to at least 7.0L, so it won't need as many revs.

And, the LTx is now DI, which means you can go higher compression as well.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:52 AM   #243
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Why do you guys keep getting stuck on a 7.0? You don't need an engine that size to make over 500hp n/a.
Yep, and I 100% agree. I don't think you will see 7.0 displacement again but that's just my opinion.

If anything, you will see smaller displacement in the years ahead.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:56 AM   #244
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just throwing it out there, I don't know enough CAFE and the regulations, but isn't it like a company average MPG that they have to meet?

Why is it that companies like Lamborghini make cars with only V10's and V12's that get an absolute max of about 20mpg? And were trying to figure out a V8 in a limited production car? wouldn't the mileage of both the V6 and I4 offset the impact of something large for the Z28?
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:57 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001 View Post
That is because Ford uses a modular engine design, so the engine had to share a bore spacing and deck height. Short story is, they couldn't go much higher in displacement, and FI was out of the questions, so revs are the only thing left.

In GM's case, they are already starting out at a larger 6.2L, and the small block can go up to at least 7.0L, so it won't need as many revs.

And, the LTx is now DI, which means you can go higher compression as well.

I was just playing devils advocate, as a lot of people in here make it sound like it would be super easy to do another 7.0 and have it make 550+

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Originally Posted by Denis View Post
just throwing it out there, I don't know enough CAFE and the regulations, but isn't it like a company average MPG that they have to meet?

Why is it that companies like Lamborghini make cars with only V10's and V12's that get an absolute max of about 20mpg? And were trying to figure out a V8 in a limited production car? wouldn't the mileage of both the V6 and I4 offset the impact of something large for the Z28?

I think some peopel have thrown CAFE out there, but it is more on the emissions standards IIRC
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:01 AM   #246
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I think some peopel have thrown CAFE out there, but it is more on the emissions standards IIRC
ooooh I got ya.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:09 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis View Post
just throwing it out there, I don't know enough CAFE and the regulations, but isn't it like a company average MPG that they have to meet?

Why is it that companies like Lamborghini make cars with only V10's and V12's that get an absolute max of about 20mpg? And were trying to figure out a V8 in a limited production car? wouldn't the mileage of both the V6 and I4 offset the impact of something large for the Z28?
Ahh, that's the shitty part of CAFE. Boutique manufacturers get a pass based on low enough sales volume so the same rules doesn't apply to them.

As mentioned...most of the problem with the big-displacement V8 that Chevy says is tough to make has to do with startup emissions.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:12 AM   #248
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:13 AM   #249
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People are hung up on 7.0L/427CI because that was the standard bearer in the GM world for N/A performance motors, and in general the NA market.

Motors in general are *expensive* to produce, certify, test, develop, etc...it's easy for the keyboard warriors to just say "hey just punch out the LT1 block, stroke it out, put a hotter cam in and BAM..550 HP!"...but they don't realize that it has to meet MPG requirements both within GM and trying to avoid a GG tax outside, has to meet long term durability standards, minimum warranty concerns, emissions, ease of manufacture, etc

Just because a speed shop can do it for $10,000...doesn't mean an OEM can do that. What might cost a speed shop $10,000...might cost GM $10 million.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:14 AM   #250
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People are hung up on 7.0L/427CI because that was the standard bearer in the GM world for N/A performance motors, and in general the NA market.

Motors in general are *expensive* to produce, certify, test, develop, etc...it's easy for the keyboard warriors to just say "hey just punch out the LT1 block, stroke it out, put a hotter cam in and BAM..550 HP!"...but they don't realize that it has to meet MPG requirements both within GM and trying to avoid a GG tax outside, has to meet long term durability standards, minimum warranty concerns, emissions, ease of manufacture, etc

Just because a speed shop can do it for $10,000...doesn't mean an OEM can do that. What might cost a speed shop $10,000...might cost GM $10 million.
Very well said.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:19 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife View Post
People are hung up on 7.0L/427CI because that was the standard bearer in the GM world for N/A performance motors, and in general the NA market.

Motors in general are *expensive* to produce, certify, test, develop, etc...it's easy for the keyboard warriors to just say "hey just punch out the LT1 block, stroke it out, put a hotter cam in and BAM..550 HP!"...but they don't realize that it has to meet MPG requirements both within GM and trying to avoid a GG tax outside, has to meet long term durability standards, minimum warranty concerns, emissions, ease of manufacture, etc

Just because a speed shop can do it for $10,000...doesn't mean an OEM can do that. What might cost a speed shop $10,000...might cost GM $10 million.

Exactly.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:25 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife View Post
People are hung up on 7.0L/427CI because that was the standard bearer in the GM world for N/A performance motors, and in general the NA market.

Motors in general are *expensive* to produce, certify, test, develop, etc...it's easy for the keyboard warriors to just say "hey just punch out the LT1 block, stroke it out, put a hotter cam in and BAM..550 HP!"...but they don't realize that it has to meet MPG requirements both within GM and trying to avoid a GG tax outside, has to meet long term durability standards, minimum warranty concerns, emissions, ease of manufacture, etc

Just because a speed shop can do it for $10,000...doesn't mean an OEM can do that. What might cost a speed shop $10,000...might cost GM $10 million.
100% right. A speed shop can do anything because they don't have to warranty them or make them last 300k miles. Where as an OEM has to do all of this reliably.
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