[Zack46]

The camaro celebrated its fifty birthday last year..To me, thats a big deal. Not one TV AD. You could poll 100 people and i guarantee you Not one would have any idea what your talking about. Thats very upsetting to me. And with the unveiling of the 2019 refresh, Yikes!

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by CamaroSS50

See this post: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=117

And this one: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=147

And this one: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=147

You are forgetting a whole bunch of other consideration sets that I posted earlier in this thread.

Subaru BRZ / Toyota GT86, Mazada MX-5 Miata, etc.

The other issue is that ads, and this is not about simply TV, regionally or otherwise, has never been cheaper to produce. The buys have never been cheaper. And the life extension of a spot exists digitally, but it affects many.

1- The prospective / aspirational consumer
2- The current owners who may be looking to upgrade their year / model
3- Reinforce new buyers that the brand they have is relevant
4- Internally. Pride comes from great ads that highlight good benefits
5- Dealership, it cuts through the analytical and to the emotion (ie. Customer, so this really can go 0-60-0 in 9 seconds?).

There is no downside (other than having McCann as an agency) to create content to address the above).

There IS a downside to NOT doing it, if GM's intent is to turn their dealerships into parking lots for model years 2 years prior.

Guess I am not clear on why I needed to go back to the posts that you linked. I saw them before and I’m pretty clear on what you were saying.

The Camaro team does not consider the BRZ / GT86 / Mazda Miata as direct competitors. Indirect at best. I’ve seen the 2nd Choice data and the Conquest data. There is very little interaction between Camaro and any of those cars in either deck. Money is not gonna get spent advertising to compete with indirect competitors.

Camaro (and Corvette) have developed marketing strategies that place the car(s) where people who are most likely to aspire to purchase that type of car will be, both physically and virtually. As Number 3 pointed out, pace cars draw a lot of interest, be they Grand Prix (this weekend) Indy (last weekend), NASCAR (Daytona) or other regional races. Camaro and Corvette dominate in presence at those events. Sporting events are another favorite venue and lately I’ve been seeing Camaros featured in special jackpot events at casinos.

As much as I would like to see Camaro TV advertisements, I understand why Camaro has chosen to focus their marketing strategy in different channels. Kinda tracks with what my colleague in Market Research told me a couple years ago. The biggest value in Camaro / Corvette commercials would be in entertaining current owners and making them feel better about their purchase.

[CamaroSS50]

Counter the arguments here, is that through 2016, GM's ad spend has increased.
(see below attachment).

The ridiculous focus group ads for Chevy (real people, not actors) is fine to supplement a real campaign, maybe regionally, but it is sheer laziness on the CMO & agency's part to broadcast this tripe.

I am not going to go into a full critique, but if you are increasing ad spend and still not moving product, there is an issue.

[CamaroSS50]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Guess I am not clear on why I needed to go back to the posts that you linked. I saw them before and I’m pretty clear on what you were saying.

The Camaro team does not consider the BRZ / GT86 / Mazda Miata as direct competitors. Indirect at best. I’ve seen the 2nd Choice data and the Conquest data. There is very little interaction between Camaro and any of those cars in either deck. Money is not gonna get spent advertising to compete with indirect competitors.

Camaro (and Corvette) have developed marketing strategies that place the car(s) where people who are most likely to aspire to purchase that type of car will be, both physically and virtually. As Number 3 pointed out, pace cars draw a lot of interest, be they Grand Prix (this weekend) Indy (last weekend), NASCAR (Daytona) or other regional races. Camaro and Corvette dominate in presence at those events. Sporting events are another favorite venue and lately I’ve been seeing Camaros featured in special jackpot events at casinos.

As much as I would like to see Camaro TV advertisements, I understand why Camaro has chosen to focus their marketing strategy in different channels. Kinda tracks with what my colleague in Market Research told me a couple years ago. The biggest value in Camaro / Corvette commercials would be in entertaining current owners and making them feel better about their purchase.

With all due respect, if market researchers ran the world, nothing would get sold.

The cars I cited ARE part of the CONSIDERATION SET. Whether directly or indirectly.

NO this is not working for GM.

NO you do not create ads to simply ENTERTAIN (did you read my post?).

I have provided actual information, including their ad spend increasing every year, yet the results are not there for the Camaro brand.

So, if it is simply ego that prevents you from understanding that, there is nothing more to discuss.

Facts are facts.

#3 Brand
#1 in 2017 inventory
#1 in 2018 inventory

GM needs a new marketing head, new agency as opposed to holding onto insanely incorrect research like a child holds a Teddy Bear at night.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Seriously?

GM has worked with the biggest and best ad agencies for years and years on top of having all the data they need to give them confidence that they don't need TV commercials to sell Camaros.

Lack of TV commercials is not why the car isn't selling in bigger numbers.

Again, Corvette has had zero commercials and is doing just fine.

Oh, and just look at the other thread on the Hot Wheels Camaro pacing the race in Detroit. That's how this car is being marketed.

Yes, seriously.

First off, Corvette is not comparable to Camaro. And only comparable to Ford’s GT or Dodge’s now defunct Viper. You know what I mean. You have no argument on that.

You can sit there all high and mighty that you know everything about advertising and we’re idiots because we don’t have marketing degrees but I challenge you to explain how Camaro’s lack of sales compared to Mustang and Challenger is NOT related to the disproportionate lack of advertising.

Explain that. I’ll wait.

[DrkPhx]

I've seen a few Mustang commercials and quite honestly they're not that good. Certainly not enough to make we want head to a Ford dealer to check one out; yet it continues to sell well even with the higher price of the MY 18. I do like the new Mustang design especially the GT350. Great looking car imo.

The biggest value in Camaro / Corvette commercials would be in entertaining current owners and making them feel better about their purchase.

That's the real truth when it comes to advertising for the current Camaro. No amount of advertising is going cause sales to increase. The Camaro needs a complete exterior and interior redesign like the C7 Corvette. That was a home run from the base model up.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by CamaroSS50

With all due respect, if market researchers ran the world, nothing would get sold.

The cars I cited ARE part of the CONSIDERATION SET. Whether directly or indirectly.

NO this is not working for GM.

NO you do not create ads to simply ENTERTAIN (did you read my post?).

I have provided actual information, including their ad spend increasing every year, yet the results are not there for the Camaro brand.

So, if it is simply ego that prevents you from understanding that, there is nothing more to discuss.

Facts are facts.

#3 Brand
#1 in 2017 inventory
#1 in 2018 inventory

GM needs a new marketing head, new agency as opposed to holding onto insanely incorrect research like a child holds a Teddy Bear at night.

What Market Researchers do (among many other things) is measure the edfectiveness of marketing campaigns. Say what you want about the real people ads, but the data shows that sales of Chevrolet’s have increased due to these ads. One of the reasons they keep using variations of them. Sure, they don’t speak AT ALL to Camaro customers, but that’s not who they are aimed at. GM just announced record profits, based primarily on Chevrolet sales. Go figure.

Another thing Market Researchers do is study WHY people bought the cars they bought, and which other cars they considered, but didn’t buy. When I look at that data of vehicles that was considered by people who actually bought a Camaro, BRZ shows up near the bottom of the list. HR86 and Miata not at all. They also look at disposal data. When someone turns in a Camaro off-lease or thru a trade and don’t get another Camaro, what do they get? Mustang is on the list. Challenger is on the list. BRZ is not. Miata is not. Also, when I led the Competitor Intel team and one of my guys presented information on BRZ.....crickets. Because they know the vast majority of customers who consider a Camaro do not consider. BRZ.

Mustang doesn’t advertise nationally. Neither does Camaro. Advertising is not the silver bullet answer to the sales disparity.

[90503]

If Camaro did a ton of advertising on TV, the howl would be to stop wasting money on expensive tv ads, so they could lower the price of the cars, regardless of good or bad sales numbers....lol

[CamaroSS50]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

What Market Researchers do (among many other things) is measure the edfectiveness of marketing campaigns. Say what you want about the real people ads, but the data shows that sales of Chevrolet’s have increased due to these ads. One of the reasons they keep using variations of them. Sure, they don’t speak AT ALL to Camaro customers, but that’s not who they are aimed at. GM just announced record profits, based primarily on Chevrolet sales. Go figure.

Another thing Market Researchers do is study WHY people bought the cars they bought, and which other cars they considered, but didn’t buy. When I look at that data of vehicles that was considered by people who actually bought a Camaro, BRZ shows up near the bottom of the list. HR86 and Miata not at all. They also look at disposal data. When someone turns in a Camaro off-lease or thru a trade and don’t get another Camaro, what do they get? Mustang is on the list. Challenger is on the list. BRZ is not. Miata is not. Also, when I led the Competitor Intel team and one of my guys presented information on BRZ.....crickets. Because they know the vast majority of customers who consider a Camaro do not consider. BRZ.

Mustang doesn’t advertise nationally. Neither does Camaro. Advertising is not the silver bullet answer to the sales disparity.

Market Research IDENTIFIES. It does not speak to the consumer. It does not know how to speak to the audience, that is what a strategist does. Research looks at what exists, not how to influence behavior. It is barely a fingernail on the hand of a fist.

Regardless, please provide actual facts. Not conjecture.

Like the one below, which is counter to your statement about record sales. Additionally, GM reports Quarterly, so the last information available, for Chevrolet, is 1Q only.

As you can see they saw +6,777 y/y in January (Colorado 0%/ 60mos, Lease promo $299 per month & Silverado, 0% / 72Mos & $3K back promo),

February saw their lowest sales since 2011, -14,490 units y/y. Their promos were for the Colorado, and the Silverado 2500HD

March +26,909 y/y, best month they have had since before 2010.

(April 2018, early report is the lowest since 2016 with 164,439 units sold (2016 = 183,442).

Q1 2018 = 490,919
Q1 2017 = 471,723

Much of the gain has been due to heavy discounts to the Silverado 1500 & Chevrolet Equinox.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by CamaroSS50

Market Research IDENTIFIES. It does not speak to the consumer. It does not know how to speak to the audience, that is what a strategist does. Research looks at what exists, not how to influence behavior. It is barely a fingernail on the hand of a fist.

Regardless, please provide actual facts. Not conjecture.

Like the one below, which is counter to your statement about record sales. Additionally, GM reports Quarterly, so the last information available, for Chevrolet, is 1Q only.

As you can see they saw +6,777 y/y in January (Colorado 0%/ 60mos, Lease promo $299 per month & Silverado, 0% / 72Mos & $3K back promo),

February saw their lowest sales since 2011, -14,490 units y/y. Their promos were for the Colorado, and the Silverado 2500HD

March +26,909 y/y, best month they have had since before 2010.

(April 2018, early report is the lowest since 2016 with 164,439 units sold (2016 = 183,442).

Q1 2018 = 490,919
Q1 2017 = 471,723

Much of the gain has been due to heavy discounts to the Silverado 1500 & Chevrolet Equinox.

Ok. So when I have lunch Wednesday with my Market Research friends who conduct clinics with customers that they talk to I’ll tell them they they should be talking to customers. See what I did there?

You might also notice I said record PROFITS based largely on Chevrolet sales. GM has been in record since the start of the Mary Barra era in stating profit is priority over sales. Profits are at a record level. Chevrolet sales are growing, but I never said they were at record levels.

[CamaroSS50]

Originally Posted by 90503

If Camaro did a ton of advertising on TV, the howl would be to stop wasting money on expensive tv ads, so they could lower the price of the cars, regardless of good or bad sales numbers....lol

It is not either extreme (none vs blanket).

It is simply DO SOMETHING.

You have over 5,000 2017 Camaro's sitting on dealer lots.

Your brand has more cars from 2017 & 2018, sitting on dealer lots.

You are #3 behind Mustang & Challenger.

So, even one halo spot, highlighting the vehicle would be expected.

Some out of the box thinking, events, experiential, etc. would be expected.

It says to both the current ownership and future owners, WE BELIEVE IN THIS BRAND.

With a $3.77 billion spend in 2016 (I do not have 2017 nor what the expected spend is for 2018), even a $3-$5M budget to Camaro would be enough (not for McCann as they need budgets no lower than $10M, which mostly gets spent on a bunch of AE's who hand hold middle marketing management hand's and come up with Hey, lets do a focus group ad campaign, ah, garbage).

To give you an indication, Mini spent $25M all in to launch the brand in 2002 in the US. That spend has increased to $35.5M for 2018 (it is the exact same amount as 2002, adjusted for inflation).

[CamaroSS50]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Ok. So when I have lunch Wednesday with my Market Research friends who conduct clinics with customers that they talk to I’ll tell them they they should be talking to customers. See what I did there?

You might also notice I said record PROFITS based largely on Chevrolet sales. GM has been in record since the start of the Mary Barra era in stating profit is priority over sales. Profits are at a record level. Chevrolet sales are growing, but I never said they were at record levels.

There in lies the issue, focus groups provide bad communications.

See focus groups are used to give CYA to the marketing managers and the bad ad agencies. That creates middle of the road work which attempts to speak to everyone and speaks to no one.

Nothing good came out of a focus group.

Profits are being driven by Buick & Chevrolet's SUV's. But the profits, some are coming at the expense of the dealerships.

GM Financial also saw a huge rise, going from $400M to $1.2 Billion in 2017.

They have cut production costs, hopefully not short cuts, to get this record profit.

That is how you manage a declining brand.

That said, enjoy your lunch.

[fastball]

Focus groups brought us the Pontiac Aztec. Bob Lutz notoriously fought them every second he was with GM.

He led BMW and brought the Dodge Viper to the world. Neither of which used focus groups.

I think BMW does now. Their cars reflect it.

[CamaroSS50]

Originally Posted by fastball

Focus groups brought us the Pontiac Aztec. Bob Lutz notoriously fought them every second he was with GM.

He led BMW and brought the Dodge Viper to the world. Neither of which used focus groups.

I think BMW does now. Their cars reflect it.

Focus groups killed the Scion brand as well.

The quirky xB, which was the face of the brand, was focused grouped to the xB2.

Brand died shortly thereafter.

Still waiting for the Lutz's V16 Cadillac. Created in 2003.



Or the 2004 Hummer H4 under Lutz:



And he delivered the Pontiac Solstice



It was Lutz who turned Chrysler into an innovative car company in the 90's with:

The Plymouth Prowler



The Dodge Viper



The Chrysler Phaeton



Unfortunately Bob Lutz sees the death of the automotive industry whereby, like software (SaaS) as a service, the same is seen for transportation