[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

I'll say again: You'll find most quality data lies behind pay walls. This is how the industry operates. It's part of their business model. I'm sorry you don't like it.



Publicize licensed content? No, I won't steal for you. I probably shouldn't have even posted specific numbers in my earlier post, just the broader relationship.




There is an entire PDF you can download at KBB addressing methodologies. I'm not going to distribute their content. Log-in and see for yourself.




The same way you vet ANY information - go to the source. No one ever promised data would be free however.



Next you'll want me to scan next months issue of Car&Driver and post it for your cheap ass.

Every rental lot is obviously different and varies even hour to hour so our anecdotal experience is irrelevant. Bulk data tracking fleet sales (governement, commercial and rental) are available from several vendors but as a far as I know it's not free to the public anymore than WSJ's content is. It's part of their business model and I respect it.

So what you are saying is, you have no way to corroborate your data for all of us non-paying mortals. Got it. Convenient no?

FYI, paraphrasing their data collection methodology does not violate copyright laws, nor does paraphrasing their data as long as you cite the source. How exactly was their data collected by the way?

[detltu]

Thanks Medisin for posting the data. Don't let these bozos bother you. If it is important enough to them they can pay for it themselves. Posting screenshots is a good way to get your paid subscription revoked.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

2017 Retail ATP's YTD (KBB KarPower)
Camaro: $38,861
Challenger: $36,958
Mustang: $35,755

2017 Fleet Sale % YTD
Camaro: 2%
Challenger: 36%
Mustang: 31%

When you then look at retail sales YTD, the Mustang maintains a narrow lead.

2017 Retail Sales YTD
Mustang: 15,501
Camaro: 14,992
Challenger: 10,064

Yes. Thank you MEDISIN!

Interesting to consider that for its retail sales, Chevy transacted $46,565,152 more than Ford for the same volume of cars.

[KungFuHamster]

Originally Posted by samurai

Interesting how grown up man fight like the kids who argue if xbox or playstation is the better console

Who cares about the pure numbers, there are so many things behind those numbers, that we can't see. 7.000 sold camaros in march sounds pretty good to me. As long as we don't have to fear that they stop making a 7th gen, everything is all right.

Mustang really hit the right spot with the 6th Gen, the sales were absolutely incredible for the first to years. But now we have to see how good the facelift will sell, especially if they increase the price but still can't fix the bad body alignment.

Also remember that Transformers was the biggest and best marketing they did for the 5th Gen. Let's see if the next Transformers will have an impact on bumblebee sales again

Pure numbers do matter...need I remind folks what happens when a car doesn't sell well?
I think most people have moved on from the Transformers/Camaro thing. There may be a small spike in sales after the next Transformers, but I wouldn't expect anything big.

[DjsBadger]

Do they ever show the breakdowns of the various models?
How many V6s, vs V8 or even 1LEs?

[IMadeYouReadThis]

Originally Posted by DjsBadger

Do they ever show the breakdowns of the various models?
How many V6s, vs V8 or even 1LEs?

That would be interesting as well my money would be on most of the sales coming from 4 cylinder automatic most of the dealerships in the greater Toronto area stock that exact model and it's crazy some of them were so loaded up trying to sell them for over $50,000 that's what's hurting sales Crazy Prices this generation my 2002 Z28 stripper was under 30,000 Canadian in fact I think it was closer to 25,000 the prices have really skyrocketed I have a V6 with a few options on order right now and for what I paid for it I could have got a 2015 SS

[90503]

How about retail sales/fleet percentage of all three for the entire year of 2016?...

It would be nice to end all the speculation of fleet, rental, etc. to compare numbers....Chevy's general policy statements of small fleet participation is never Camaro specific.....

Isn't that really what we'd like to see are "retail" sales? Doesn't that speak more to each one's popularity with the car buying public for this segment of cars? It could also render moot all the guessing about "profits" each manufacturer brings in....

I never recall fleet/rental mentioned with the 5thGens....but it would be nice to see all the "retail only" total numbers for all the previous years....Yet month after month fleet is used to justify or explain high/low sales numbers...

P.S. Thanks Medisin.....you can be a hero and end all the speculation and arguing over which make has sold more "retail"!...

[F1FTY]

In a previous life, PIN data was what was used for transaction pricing and vehicle splits.

That's not to say KBB isn't accurate, just not familiar with it.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

So what you are saying is, you have no way to corroborate your data for all of us non-paying mortals. Got it. Convenient no?

I suspect hundreds of thousands of people subscribe to their services - I'm not the only one. I would love to see what profit margin exists with these vehicles, but I can't justify the expense of what that would cost...if it's even legally available outside of GM volunteering it.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

FYI, paraphrasing their data collection methodology does not violate copyright laws, nor does paraphrasing their data as long as you cite the source. How exactly was their data collected by the way?

Yet that data has "value" associated with it even if the source is cited. I don't own the data. Could I post the contents of today's WSJ free for all to read as long as I cite the source?

In brief, data comes from aligned fleet managers, mfr sales data, dealerships, data aggregators, government purchasing, etc. Different parts of the user site pulls from different sources (e.g. ATP's vs ROI vs Buyer Age and the like).

Originally Posted by F1FTY

In a previous life, PIN data was what was used for transaction pricing and vehicle splits.

That's not to say KBB isn't accurate, just not familiar with it.

JDPin makes it easier to sort and filter for a quick look at ATP's. KBB has a convenient "export to Excel" tool that can put ATP's side-by-side vs looking up each individual model and jotting it down in JDPin.

Originally Posted by detltu

Thanks Medisin for posting the data. Don't let these bozos bother you. If it is important enough to them they can pay for it themselves. Posting screenshots is a good way to get your paid subscription revoked.

It's good to ask questions and discuss results. No harm in vetting data from ANY source. I often cross check searches across two or three sources just to be sure what I'm seeing is accurate. A lot of data is parsed and made public but some is behind a pay wall. Just the world we live in.

Originally Posted by 90503

How about retail sales/fleet percentage of all three for the entire year of 2016?...

2016 Fleet Percentage:
Mustang: 28%
Challenger: 24%
Camaro: 6%

The reason Camaro was even 6% was mostly selling of 2015's at the beginning of the year. The only 6th gen Camaro sales to fleet appear to be SS models to Enterprise "Exotic Collection" lol and Hertz "Adrenaline Collection". The "typical" fleet percentage historically is ROUGHLY:
Mustang 20-25%
Challenger 15-20%
Camaro 10-15%

[90503]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

2017 Retail ATP's YTD (KBB KarPower)
Camaro: 38,861
Challenger: 36,958
Mustang: 35,755



2017 Fleet Sale % YTD
Camaro: 2%
Challenger: 36%
Mustang: 31%

When you then look at retail sales YTD, the Mustang maintains a narrow lead.

2017 Retail Sales YTD
Mustang: 15,501
Camaro: 14,992
Challenger: 10,064

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

2016 Fleet Percentage:
Mustang: 28%
Challenger: 24%
Camaro: 6%

Thanks, Medisin...

For 2016 I come up with RETAIL sales of

Mustang..............76,271

Challenger...........49,004

Camaro...............68,342


Perhaps the actual retail sales numbers from the car buying public will help ease some of the fears of "doom and gloom, Camaro is overpriced, Camaro's design is a failure, things better change or they will quit making them"...... etc.,
Sales with fleet removed shows Mustang and Camaro a lot closer than previously thought....



Totals from 2016 (including fleet):

Mustang.............105,932

Challenger...........64,478

Camaro...............72,705

[KMPrenger]

It didn't take me, but 1 minute to google "2016 fleet vs retail car sales" to come up with this:

https://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA10602977.PDF

This site has many other PDFs of this data.

If this is true, what it basically says is that for June 2016:
37% of Ford sales were to fleet
18% of GM sales were to fleet.

I quickly glanced at a few other similar documents from this site, and they reflect similar numbers.

When I go to the main site and to the page that seems to have the clickable links to these documents, it wants a paid membership. I'm guessing some of these PDFs are not properly secured which is why I am able to pick them up using Google.

http://www.autonews.com/section/datalist22

[90503]

I would just suggest Ford and GM fleet percentages don't translate straight across to Mustang and Camaro fleet percentages....

Good job KMP. It looks like Medisin's info went deeper into fleet details for Mustang and Camaro....

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by 90503

I would just suggest Ford and GM fleet percentages don't translate straight across to Mustang and Camaro fleet percentages....
....

Agreed. Not saying what I found is "proof" Not at all. But it seems to jive with the other claims thus far. I was able to find their PDF on January 2017 data, and in that, Ford was about 30% fleet while GM was around 20%....so not quite the gap that was shown for June 2016

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

I'll say again: You'll find most quality data lies behind pay walls. This is how the industry operates. It's part of their business model. I'm sorry you don't like it.



Publicize licensed content? No, I won't steal for you. I probably shouldn't have even posted specific numbers in my earlier post, just the broader relationship.




There is an entire PDF you can download at KBB addressing methodologies. I'm not going to distribute their content. Log-in and see for yourself.




The same way you vet ANY information - go to the source. No one ever promised data would be free however.



Next you'll want me to scan next months issue of Car&Driver and post it for your cheap ass.

Every rental lot is obviously different and varies even hour to hour so our anecdotal experience is irrelevant. Bulk data tracking fleet sales (governement, commercial and rental) are available from several vendors but as a far as I know it's not free to the public anymore than WSJ's content is. It's part of their business model and I respect it.

Nah I ditched all my subscriptions to the magazines years ago. They put all the noteworthy articles and info on their websites anyways lol. I'll take your word for it though.