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Old 01-28-2018, 07:07 AM   #29
Need4Camaro

 
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Originally Posted by mekirk2 View Post
These systems will keep improving and, like seat belts, will save more lives than they harm as they do.
Cool videos and all but some of those stops were unreasonably dangerous and could have been potentially hazardous to vehicles around you.. You might come to a full stop and not hit a dog but get plowed into by a 18 Wheeler behind you who can't stop as quickly as you can. I personally would have been pissed had my car stopped to avoid a animal when I could easily steer around one as I personally have before.

Recorded from my dashcam:



All the Emergency Brake system is required to do is stop you before collision and it MAY do that but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're out of danger.

I still stand by my original argument, My argument is not about the safety of others but rather their driving habits and their skill is insufficient to be piloting an automobile in the first place if one most rely on a system such as this. In every one of those situations, a fully attent driver could have made the same if not more reasonable accommodations. If you NEED the car to drive for you, you don't need to have a license, simply put. If less idiots were on the road we wouldn't have these safety concerns to begin with.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:25 AM   #30
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There are a lot of assumptions in this thread. I happen to be with Glen on this one.

These systems aren’t a substitute for an attentive driver.

Also, like most systems when they’re launched, they will get better. At some point the sensors and cameras will take into consideration their surroundings, road condition and weather. We shouldn’t assume that the current state won’t improve over the next few years especially as data is collected and feedback is gathered from the vehicles that are already equipped.

In my opinion, these systems should be welcomed because there’s a wide swath of drivers who simply do not pay attention. And yes, they most certainly should pay attention and shouldn’t be on the road if they aren’t but the reality is that they will be on the road, not only with you but your children, friends and family, and all the attentiveness in the world won’t stop one from plowing into me, so if their vehicles can be equipped with these systems then I’m all for it, even if the byproduct is the same system being equipped in mine.


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Old 01-28-2018, 08:33 AM   #31
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Like anyone, I am capable of the usual blunders, blinded by the a pillar, or missing that one angle backing out, but not very often.

These systems are just a sign of the times. We insist on having cars with "connectivity", our phones have become so much more than just a communication device, and our mentality is every text, post, comment, or smiley face demands and instant response.

I once saw a car plow into stopped traffic at full highway speed. I don't know what the outcome was, or what the driver was doing, but they weren't watching the road. Hit the last car in line at least doing 65, no brake lights, nothing.

So, while I don't feel a real need for it myself, I really hope the idiot behind me checking their facebook has it.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:34 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by ecko04 View Post
There are a lot of assumptions in this thread. I happen to be with Glen on this one.

These systems aren’t a substitute for an attentive driver.

Also, like most systems when they’re launched, they will get better. At some point the sensors and cameras will take into consideration their surroundings, road condition and weather. We shouldn’t assume that the current state won’t improve over the next few years especially as data is collected and feedback is gathered from the vehicles that are already equipped.

In my opinion, these systems should be welcomed because there’s a wide swath of drivers who simply do not pay attention. And yes, they most certainly should pay attention and shouldn’t be on the road if they aren’t but the reality is that they will be on the road, not only with you but your children, friends and family, and all the attentiveness in the world won’t stop one from plowing into me, so if their vehicles can be equipped with these systems then I’m all for it, even if the byproduct is the same system being equipped in mine.


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Exactly.....the chest beaters/real men had the same lame argument about not wanting ABS when it came out “ I know how to brake....” Sheesh.......right now the Rolex 24 hour is going on, and every car on the track, in every class, is a PADDLE SHIFT DCT auto of some sort....so much for “real men drive a manual”....LOL
strides in technology are never accepted by hobbyist/enthusiasts at first.....

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Old 01-28-2018, 08:47 AM   #33
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THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF YOU CAN'T PAY ATTENTION AND DRIVE, YOU DONT BELONG BEHIND THE WHEEL!!!!!!!!

I'm all for things like backup sensors, backup cameras, anything that makes it easier to see in areas where it can be difficult. I don't even mind the blindspot annoyances on my mirrors..... but lane assist, brake assist, park assist, these are all babysitting tools for people who can't drive, who shouldn't drive, or worst case, are too busy doing other crap but driving...

Keep in mind, I do understand that there are a very select group of people who are disabled or have injuries that these types of things are beneficial to have. I am not including these individuals in my comment.

I also am not against these being available to a vehicle, as long as they can be disabled.
With all the electronics that seems like everyone wants to have in the car , GPS, SELF MESSAGING response , phones , etc etc , it's just a matter of time until one , even you could find yourself just a little off pace , and that's when those self guiding , pace keeping ,change lane warnings , or even on some models the car pulls you into your lane if you cross or get too close to the white lanes demarking another lane
Keep in mind that you have the option to turn those systems OFF if you want
However , do NOT really on those systems alone , they are there NOT to drive anyone home
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:53 AM   #34
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I don't see automatic emergency braking technology working on a road course without a lot of false positives.

My wife's Explorer has this and it's nearly caused her to get rear-ended a few times. It seems the system will panic if you accelerate behind a vehicle just before turning to go around a it. Also oncoming traffic has tripped it up a couple times.

With all of the regulation for fuel economy, safety, etc., vehicles are getting too expensive. I saw a stat the other day that said something like people are financially upside down on a third of all vehicle trades.

We can't only look at the benefits of technology. We have to start paying more attention to the cost before we have new technolgies mandated.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:00 AM   #35
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These systems will keep improving and, like seat belts, will save more lives than they harm as they do.





No it didn't , it just warned ( buser ) and probably applied the brakes because the cars where crossing his path at a certain distance in front of the car ( Tesla )
It was not telling that the other cars were about to crash into each other at the intersection and or on the other lanes of traffic
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:30 AM   #36
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No it didn't , it just warned ( buser ) and probably applied the brakes because the cars where crossing his path at a certain distance in front of the car ( Tesla )
It was not telling that the other cars were about to crash into each other at the intersection and or on the other lanes of traffic
Ive been in the Model S, the car is actually way beyond anything that the other manufacturers have today. While it doesnt 'predict' an accident, it does 'see' past the car in front of you. I believe it bounces radar under the car in front of you. One of its displays shows all the traffic around you that the car 'senses.' It can recognize the car to your right or left (how it caught those vehicles drifting into your lane in that one video and steered away from it - the car actually did that and not the driver). In one of the videos, it recognized that the car two cars ahead was braking - the car in front of it didnt and rear ended the car that was braking but the Tesla was already decelerating when that happened.

Someone said the car cant drive you home - the Tesla is there but I think its still in the testing phase. Its cruise (autopilot) will stop at lights and then proceed when the light changes.

So far crashes involving a Tesla have been investigated by the NTSB and Ive only read of one that was related to the car and not a driver issue - the cars radar had a 'blind spot' that they have since fixed.

Im with others on the fact that, even if I am 110% attentive when driving (I admit Im not), if these systems keep someone else from plowing into me at full speed while Im stopped at a light then they are worth having in a vehicle.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:45 AM   #37
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For those interested, check out this video. It shows the car running through its paces in autopilot. It shows the computer working in the background to recognize its surroundings - if you look closely you can see it identifying street signs, people, other vehicles entering the intersections, etc. This is the future of driving unfortunately. It wont be here in 5 years but I say 10 - 15 with it mainstream in 25.

https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopil...ghborhood-long
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Old 01-28-2018, 10:06 AM   #38
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Cool videos and all but some of those stops were unreasonably dangerous and could have been potentially hazardous to vehicles around you.. You might come to a full stop and not hit a dog but get plowed into by a 18 Wheeler behind you who can't stop as quickly as you can. I personally
Bogus argument. At any time there may be someone behind you following too close and you may have to emergency-stop. If it's a kid on a bike or a moose around here, having someone rear-end you is preferable to the alternative, but it'll be their fault for following too close. With these systems, you can usually "overpower" them, add gas, etc, at least that's the way mine worked.

BTW, my system wouldn't brake for a dog, kid, or stationary car, the only thing it would slow down for is moving targets, so if someone pulls into your lane/in front of you, it recognizes this and slows down, especially if they do it suddenly. There's a video on this site of a guy in a nice camaro doing what has to be a lot over the speed limit and then someone pulls out in front of him from an entrance, he t-bones the car pulling out. Both of their faults, but mostly the fault of the car pulling out for misjudging speed/not making sure it was clear, but it's highly likely the system in my BMW would have saved the day, as it detects that movement well in advance (before it's actually in the lane) and would have been slowing. The only part about the system that was kind of annoying was while on adaptive cruise, it "freaks out" a bit if the car in the NEXT lane goes into your lane and waits for what seems like an eternity to make sure your lane is clear again, however, this is the exact behavior/programming that would have saved that T-bone accident.
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Old 01-28-2018, 11:25 AM   #39
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Bogus argument. At any time there may be someone behind you following too close and you may have to emergency-stop.
This is no excuse, a fully attentive driver KNOWS to leave more space between yourself and anything infront of you if anyone is tailgating you or potentially does not have the same stopping capacity as yourself. This is so that should an emergency occur, YOU have more stopping distance, more time to avoid, and the car behind you has more time to realize you're stopping.. and yes...I DO abide by this.

Also in most cases there are more than one way to avoid an accident because if you're paying attention to your surroundings you can generally get an idea as to where you can move, (if you'll have the space) by typically keeping a lane clear (not riding on someone's side) should an emergency happen, and you can also get an idea by watching the way a vehicle is veering (watch their tires) to detect a potential impact.

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If it's a kid on a bike or a moose around here, having someone rear-end you is preferable to the alternative, but it'll be their fault for following too close. With these systems, you can usually "overpower" them, add gas, etc, at least that's the way mine worked.
If you are anywhere where there are children, such as what I posted in this video taken from my personal dashcam earlier:



.. you should NEVER be driving so fast that should a surprise occur due to a child that you have to PANIC stop to avoid it... Thats a driver error.

Also, if you're at speed and someone rear ends you while you're panic breaking for a kid please be mindful that the vehicle behind you weighs at the bare minimal of 2 tons and that your brakes are NOT going to over power that, your tires will lose grip and you are going to skid into the obstacle you were initially trying to avoid.

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BTW, my system wouldn't brake for a dog, kid, or stationary car, the only thing it would slow down for is moving targets, so if someone pulls into your lane/in front of you, it recognizes this and slows down, especially if they do it suddenly. There's a video on this site of a guy in a nice camaro doing what has to be a lot over the speed limit and then someone pulls out in front of him from an entrance, he t-bones the car pulling out. Both of their faults, but mostly the fault of the car pulling out for misjudging speed/not making sure it was clear, but it's highly likely the system in my BMW would have saved the day, as it detects that movement well in advance (before it's actually in the lane) and would have been slowing. The only part about the system that was kind of annoying was while on adaptive cruise, it "freaks out" a bit if the car in the NEXT lane goes into your lane and waits for what seems like an eternity to make sure your lane is clear again, however, this is the exact behavior/programming that would have saved that T-bone accident.

Yeah but the guy in the Camaro was driving too fast for conditions (a road of which has cross streets where a several unpredictable circumstances can occur) ... The car may have panic stopped and saved the collision (depending of circumstances as well... there is never a gauruntee your brakes will save you from an accident, they only reduce the odds by a large margin so long as the only obstacle you face is one thats infront of you.) Thats really no excuse either.. Had he not have been speeding and had he have been paying attention there is a good chance he could have saved himself from the collision.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:58 PM   #40
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Yeah but the guy in the Camaro was driving too fast for conditions (a road of which has cross streets where a several unpredictable circumstances can occur) ... The car may have panic stopped and saved the collision (depending of circumstances as well... there is never a gauruntee your brakes will save you from an accident, they only reduce the odds by a large margin so long as the only obstacle you face is one thats infront of you.) Thats really no excuse either.. Had he not have been speeding and had he have been paying attention there is a good chance he could have saved himself from the collision.
But reducing the accidents is the goal with the least amount of intrusive "control". Would you rather a car that can not exceed speed limits?
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:32 PM   #41
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First, I agree with the posts on improved driver training and paying attention for improved driving overall. At least until we don't get to drive anymore. Most people drive while texting, eating, changing radio stations, day dreaming or sight seeing.

2nd everyone on here that thinks they are paying attention 100% of the time and don't have a single moment of distraction while behind the wheel, I think you are kidding yourselves. Just because you haven't rear ended anyone (I never have in 40 years) doesn't mean you've never had to put on the brakes hard because someone stopped suddenly or pulled out in front of you. Or opened the door in parked car or a pedestrian stepped out of nowhere. If you've never had that happen good for you.

This is just like all the people that think they are better than ABS and Traction Control and Active Handling technology. For the most part you and I aren't. Randy Probst probably is and guys that actually track their cars regularly might have a claim. But GM changed their procedures for Z06s and up a few years ago. You need to have your SCCA license to be on the captured test fleet. Too many people turned off the "nannies" and and wrecked some pretty expensive cars.

And if nothing else and you are fully attentive driver 100% of the time, this will help you from getting rear ended by the kid in the Toyota texting behind you.

Oh, and as an engineer, I can also come up with a million ways this could fail, too. But this becomes how many odd ball cases can you come up with where it's a detriment.

Say for example your car hits the brakes and you are on ice (one example above). That's what ABS is for.

Say for example you have a false alarm and the car brakes and there is someone behind you. If that results in an accident then the person behind you either wasn't paying attention or did not have any FCA/AFB. In either case that car also having this feature would help.

Sorry to say guys, but the electronics and software are faster than we will ever be. We may want to believe it's all skill related, but for most of us on this site that don't race for our living, the computer is faster. And with the advent of Level 4 autonomy coming, Lidar will make the cars even that much better.
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Old 01-28-2018, 03:20 PM   #42
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My 2017 Impala has a lot of "Driver Assistance Systems"...So far none have caused any problems for me....Adaptive Cruise Control, Forward Collision Alert, Lane Departure Warning, Side Blind Zone Alert, Lane Change Alert, Forward Automatic Braking...lol...I think that's all...lol....I believe all can be turned off, if desired, with either a switch of some kind, or in Vehicle Personalization.

Never had a vehicle with any of these features before, except for good old fashioned cruise control....I'm not 100% familiar with all of them yet, but I'll take 'em. If any of them keep me from an accident, especially rear ending someone else, I'll take it. I'm not too proud to say they may help in an emergency or brain-fart on my part....lol...

What if I drop dead behind the wheel from a heart attack, or get shot dead by another driver?...At least I know the car will likely safely stop and not hurt anyone else...lol..

My driving record is stellar...no tickets or accidents in over 40 years of driving. Yet, so far I'm getting a kick out of some of these features....Back up camera, rear cross traffic alert, for example are something I never thought I'd have in a car of mine, yet now they are, plus a lot more. They are not an affront to my "driving skills", rather more as they are described..."to Assist"...

However, once a whole generation of drivers get on the road that have always had these features, I can see where a less than 100% attention to driving will become more tolerable and/or taken for granted by new drivers....

Everyone these days is used to power steering and power brakes....Imagine the total shock from a driver that always had them, but they suddenly stop working. I doubt many of them would realize what to do, or how to drive without them. I think in the future these safety features will become more than an assist, but will be a taken for granted as an unseen crutch. This will only create the need for more improved technology assistance, rather than more practical driver education or driver safety habits.

Just my $.02
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