[doc7000]

In defense of the GT350R VIR lap time the Z/28 and GT350R wasn't run on the same day and probably not with the same driver.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Common sense says a GT PP won't beat a GT350.. Please show me another vehicle that outperforms a higher trim.

[DFW1LE]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

So, GT350 continuing to sell at over msrp is a bad thing? Doesn't that show that the demand/desire for the car is still very high? I would have more of an issue if it needed discounting/incentives to move metal.

It is if you are a Ford fan and want to buy one. Dealer gouging is not a good practice regardless of manufacturer.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by DFW1LE

It is if you are a Ford fan and want to buy one. Dealer gouging is not a good practice regardless of manufacturer.

Not to mention non R GT350's can be had for under msrp. My friend got his for a few grand under...

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

It also lost at the Lightning Lap. A course where it should have won soundly. I never said it hasn't defeated it either. Just the published tests have not been all victories.

I wasn't aware that Z/28 and GT350R ran LL in the same year, link?

Originally Posted by DFW1LE

It is if you are a Ford fan and want to buy one. Dealer gouging is not a good practice regardless of manufacturer.

That's the rub. Its shady dealers that are gouging, not Ford. But those dealers only get away with it because people will pay it, again due to demand/desire.

Do I like it? No. From a business paradigm, can I understand it? Yes.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by doc7000

In defense of the GT350R VIR lap time the Z/28 and GT350R wasn't run on the same day and probably not with the same driver.

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I wasn't aware that Z/28 and GT350R ran LL in the same year, link?

Not going to nick pick with you since the point of my original post was Ford over hyping many of their estimates. I mean really if you want to get down to it if the cars aren't running at exactly the same time then there are variables. But when a car has a sizeable weight advantage, more power especially on the top end which VIR has some decent straights, there should have been a larger gap in their times. Here's what C&D said about it:

"On corner exits, it proves easier to get on the power sooner and harder without having to worry about overwhelming the rear tires.
But in Turn 1, the GT350 can’t match the Z/28’s grip, ceding a little bit of time to the Chevy. The Ford’s deficit grows in each subsequent sector, a couple of tenths here and there. The GT350 may be easier on the driver than the Z/28, but its Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires can’t match the grip of the Z/28’s Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R rubber. Unlike the Chevy Corvette Grand Sport’s Cup 2s, the Ford-spec Michelins seem to have more consistent grip from the first lap to the last, but they never deliver the race-rubber-like initial grip of the Vette’s tires, which tapers off after a couple of laps."


Also wasn't VIR repaved after the Z/28 ran and it is a smoother (faster) track now?

[Broman16-2SS]

Looks wise, I would say that the 2018 is a downgrade. I have a sneaking suspicion that they will look better in person (God, I hope so!) The gauges look pretty awesome and seem to have more customization options. I used to own a 2015 Mustang GT 6 speed manual(non-pp). The only thing that I feel that the S550 has over the Camaro 5G/6G is storage space(which is a non-issue to me). The rest of the cars aren't really comparable as far as performance and feel to me. My Mustang was softer and more usable for the average person that wants one. But the Camaro is far and away the best driver's car for it "competition". Coming from a previous Ford owner, from a Ford family. I without a doubt say that my Camaro is a better car by a mile, in almost every way.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by doc7000

In defense of the GT350R VIR lap time the Z/28 and GT350R wasn't run on the same day and probably not with the same driver.

True, but you can bet your left nut that if the 350r won, the Ford boys would be all over it.

[gameovergt]

the 2018 is just not good looking & I love 'Stangs. Performance can't always compensate for looks. It needs to be a package that represents everything. Pretty sure in 2 or 3 years I will be getting the Camaro this time!

[Sweet Zness]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I wasn't aware that Z/28 and GT350R ran LL in the same year, link.

Wasn't aware they ran the same day at the ring either, yet you weren't so quick to point out that flawed logic.

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Not going to nick pick with you since the point of my original post was Ford over hyping many of their estimates. I mean really if you want to get down to it if the cars aren't running at exactly the same time then there are variables. But when a car has a sizeable weight advantage, more power especially on the top end which VIR has some decent straights, there should have been a larger gap in their times. Here's what C&D said about it:

"On corner exits, it proves easier to get on the power sooner and harder without having to worry about overwhelming the rear tires.
But in Turn 1, the GT350 can’t match the Z/28’s grip, ceding a little bit of time to the Chevy. The Ford’s deficit grows in each subsequent sector, a couple of tenths here and there. The GT350 may be easier on the driver than the Z/28, but its Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires can’t match the grip of the Z/28’s Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R rubber. Unlike the Chevy Corvette Grand Sport’s Cup 2s, the Ford-spec Michelins seem to have more consistent grip from the first lap to the last, but they never deliver the race-rubber-like initial grip of the Vette’s tires, which tapers off after a couple of laps."


Also wasn't VIR repaved after the Z/28 ran and it is a smoother (faster) track now?

This is the only same day, professional driver comparison that I'm aware of. Skip to minute 16 to see track results.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Sweet Zness

Wasn't aware they ran the same day at the ring either, yet you weren't so quick to point out that flawed logic.

The GT350 never ran a timed lap at the Ring. Al O called Ford out saying timed laps are only allowed during a narrow window of time each day, they were there and the GT350 didn't run.

AO: We did, but the way that Nürburgring works during industry pool weeks, which are a few times a year, is, all manufacturers go and you get to do all your testing closed to the public. One of the gentlemen’s agreements is they don’t allow cameras during the day, because while we might have production Z/28s over there, Mercedes or Range Rover or Porsche, they might have something camouflaged. Everyone is sharing the track. To do a fast hot lap, you really need the track cleared, so what they do is every day at 5:10 p.m., they shut the track entrance down. It takes on average, 9 to 10 minutes to get around the track. So if you’re going to do a hot lap, you’ve got from 10 after 5 to about 5:30 p.m. and then they open the track up to the public. During the day, sometimes you get these periods where there’s not a lot of activity on the track and you can run laps, but no cameras. We’ve actually run Z/28 times that are significantly faster than the one we published in the video, but we respect the gentlemen’s agreement, and to protect our integrity, we don’t publish a time that we can’t verify with a video. We could have easily done that. Unfortunately, when we were there, it rained, literally every day at 5 o’clock. You’d see the clouds roll in at 5 o’clock. The day Adam ran that [for the video], I wasn’t even aware it was raining on his side of the track and when he came back in and we watched the video, our jaws dropped. But the fact of the matter is, we’ve run much faster times, we just don’t have the video to stand behind it publically. Hypothetically, if someone wanted to lay claim that they ran a 7.32 at the Nürburgring ring, um, the fact that we were there at the same time and we know who ran at 10 after 5 every day, it might put it into question if that was real. Especially if the manufacturer didn’t stand behind it. Just sayin’.[Editor’s note: If you didn’t catch that little jab, rumors have been circulating online that the Mustang GT350R ran a 7:32.19, uncomfirmed by Ford.]

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/features/1506-take-five-with-al-oppenheiser/#ixzz3c2w9UshF

[enzia35]

I would love to test them against each other.

[enzia35]

Originally Posted by Ian SS

If I was buying a car for looks I'd go lease a Lexus.

I bought the SS because it was and continues to be the best performing vehicle in its class. I don't see that changing as long as Ford is just doing a facelift and suspension tweaks.

Lexus for looks? Lol, maybe if you like that ugly Predator grill.



I actually like the Lexus looks, just busting your chops.