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Old 01-04-2021, 11:16 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by NYblack1le View Post
1le is a performance bargain. Best $7500 you can spend. Recaros,npp,ediff,mag ride,lt4 in tank pump,big brakes...... the list goes on.
Except that $7500 gets you hardly any better performance besides better handling on an already great handling car. And on the street, will hardly be noticeable.
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:19 AM   #30
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Should also be mentioned that 1LE wheel/tire size and type is not the best for comfort, it does tramline, tires wear quick and don't work optimally until they get warmed up. They also hydroplane easier vs other choices. They wouldn't be my 1st choice for street application so if you go 1LE you might end up replacing OEM wheels and/or tires anyways. I'd like a set of PS4S for street use over the GY SC3.
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:19 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Staves View Post
Except that $7500 gets you hardly any better performance besides better handling on an already great handling car. And on the street, will hardly be noticeable.
A bit more than "hardly" noticeable. Not disagreeing with the statement in general, but to mention as if it is such a slight difference, no, it is not.

Very noticeable and well worth 7K IMO. But, IMO, this is all about choice and opinion. I would make the same choice again in a heartbeat!
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:23 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
I'm looking to get rid of my Mustang here soon and pick up a Camaro but I'm having trouble deciding which trim to get. The car will most likely never see a track or drag strip, but there are a couple very tight and twisty backroads that I like to carve on the weekends. And of course the occasional highway roll.

In my area I'm seeing used 1LE's going in the high $39k range (which I find ridiculous but I digress), while I've found a couple 1SS trims around $32k. 2SS is somewhere in the middle but I don't really need the creature comforts and I'd like to keep the weight down.

So my question is, is the handling on the 1LE that much different compared to the 1SS that it justifies an extra $6k - $7k in the used market? If I bought a 1SS, got wider wheels, and did springs, bushings, and sway bar with the money I saved will the handling be better/comparable? Or should I just suck it up and get the 1LE?
You'll be happy with a 1SS with the above in mind. The SS 1LE, all together, is a great track value. But if you aren't going to track a lot, or you aren't caught on having a 1LE for the novelty, the regular SS will do you just fine.
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:38 AM   #33
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While that is true, having more capability that you aren't normally using equals a greater margin for dealing with at least some of the unexpected situations that may arise. That's a good thing.

Even at your normal level of driving enthusiasm, the car will be more composed, which will make you less tense or uneasy. That's another good thing.


Norm
Most don't come close to using the capability of the SS as is. The only thing it really needs is better tires. The brakes and suspension capability is far above what I believe most would consider normal driving enthusiasm. My SS is a 135+ mph car in the 1/4. Still stock suspension and brakes minus carbon ceramic pads. I have entered corners hot (80-90mph) after making a wot pull and had no trouble making the turn. That is with a 555r2 drag radial on the rear. Nothing about this car makes me tense or uneasy. It still handles the extra 250+ HP I have added in spades. Imo the 6th gen SS is built well above the power it makes in stock form. The 1LE is a better looking car and it has the best looking wheels of the 6th gen platform. That is why it many buy it...a small fraction of 1lE owners actually use them for their intended purpose.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:01 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
Should also be mentioned that 1LE wheel/tire size and type is not the best for comfort, it does tramline, tires wear quick and don't work optimally until they get warmed up. They also hydroplane easier vs other choices. They wouldn't be my 1st choice for street application so if you go 1LE you might end up replacing OEM wheels and/or tires anyways. I'd like a set of PS4S for street use over the GY SC3.
This is true. The PS4S is almost completely devoid of tramlining and hydroplaning on my 1LE wheels, though, at the cost of a bit of dry performance. Tire choice is a tough one no matter the wheel size IMO.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:29 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
Most don't come close to using the capability of the SS as is. The only thing it really needs is better tires. The brakes and suspension capability is far above what I believe most would consider normal driving enthusiasm. My SS is a 135+ mph car in the 1/4. Still stock suspension and brakes minus carbon ceramic pads. I have entered corners hot (80-90mph) after making a wot pull and had no trouble making the turn. That is with a 555r2 drag radial on the rear. Nothing about this car makes me tense or uneasy. It still handles the extra 250+ HP I have added in spades. Imo the 6th gen SS is built well above the power it makes in stock form. The 1LE is a better looking car and it has the best looking wheels of the 6th gen platform. That is why it many buy it...a small fraction of 1lE owners actually use them for their intended purpose.



Well said, King. If anyone finds themselves feeling tense or uneasy in a standard SS on the street, they're going WAYYY too fast. BTW: I would apply this statement to guys like Randy Pobst as well. After adding the 1LE/ZL1 handling bits in my sig, I can tell a difference on the track, but getting anywhere near the grip/handling limits of any 6th gen on the street is not smart to say the least. Guys who rave about how capable their 1LE's are are correct but they probably don't realize how close the SS comes with just a tire change. With all that said, I would have bought a 1LE had they been available when I got my car, I just don't think it's a wise use of the $7500 premium for everyone.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:35 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by FarmerFran View Post
Ok,

Welcome!

If you are not tracking, the SS will be more than enough to safely traverse any roads at a speed that will not kill you or others on the road.

If you need a 1LE you are going way too fast.
So you’re saying get a 1LE? The 1LE handles like it is on rails and sometimes gets squirrelly in the rear when cornering. I can’t imagine not having the suspension of the 1LE and would argue that it makes you a better driver than if you were in an SS. The steering, brakes, tires, and suspension work magically together. If anything, the car could use larger tires, because I still lose traction with the amount of torque being sent to them. I’m coming from AWD platforms (Evo X and Raptor). Broke my car in on mountain roads and rear was sliding with 305, but manageable. If I lived in an area with straight roads, then no point in getting 1LE, but the steering response is amazing in this car. Also the 6 speed doesn’t have any notchy feel and is amazing.

I would recommend taking both trims for a test drive and see which you could live with. Also recommend buying new if you can.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:39 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by NYblack1le View Post
1le is a performance bargain. Best $7500 you can spend. Recaros,npp,ediff,mag ride,lt4 in tank pump,big brakes...... the list goes on.
Agree!

Add the subjectively best looking wheels (forged) I've seen in the category.
Add front splitter.
Add lip spoiler.

the 1LE package makes the car a different animal visually.

I don't care to track the car (tons of advanced track days on motorcycles so im kinda over it) but I do like to engage certain areas on the street that do utilize the 1LE package.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:40 PM   #38
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All depends on how much you want to track......

Any SS is a track capable car.....
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:42 PM   #39
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So I have a convertible 1SS and added 295-30-19 tires square on 10.5" Apex wheels. That one change made a significant difference in the grip and feel of the car. I now have the GMPP lowering kit on order and will add that to get closer to a 1LE suspension. Granted the TC isn't optimized for the grip, the old school LSD isn't as good, and maybe the biggest improvement in the car hasn't been mentioned - the 1LE Recaro seats! I even thought about adding those to my vert, but looks like it would eat $5K which is just too much $ for seats - IMHO.

So to answer the question - I think the 1LE package is a no-brainer bargain for the $7500 and I would only get a 1LE if I was buying a coupe. Now - if you already have a SS is upgrading to a 1LE worth it? That's where it gets iffy. For me it would be a $15K upgrade over my convertible. And I rather like the convertible too. I no longer go to the track regularly, but I did for years and years and raced with NASA for awhile in the CMC series. So I would be able to appreciate the 1LE and would occasionally take it to the track if I got one.

I do think it's the best looking 6th gen out there - other than the ZL1 I guess. But I really don't need 650hp. 455 is plenty and matches the chassis very well. I have two other 500hp+ cars anyway.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:44 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ademarco View Post
So youíre saying get a 1LE? The 1LE handles like it is on rails and sometimes gets squirrelly in the rear when cornering. I canít imagine not having the suspension of the 1LE and would argue that it makes you a better driver than if you were in an SS. The steering, brakes, tires, and suspension work magically together. If anything, the car could use larger tires, because I still lose traction with the amount of torque being sent to them. Iím coming from AWD platforms (Evo X and Raptor). Broke my car in on mountain roads and rear was sliding with 305, but manageable. If I lived in an area with straight roads, then no point in getting 1LE, but the steering response is amazing in this car. Also the 6 speed doesnít have any notchy feel and is amazing.
It's hard to get traction when the pavement is so cold in the winter - summer driving will be very different!
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:45 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
I'm looking to get rid of my Mustang here soon and pick up a Camaro but I'm having trouble deciding which trim to get. The car will most likely never see a track or drag strip, but there are a couple very tight and twisty backroads that I like to carve on the weekends. And of course the occasional highway roll.

In my area I'm seeing used 1LE's going in the high $39k range (which I find ridiculous but I digress), while I've found a couple 1SS trims around $32k. 2SS is somewhere in the middle but I don't really need the creature comforts and I'd like to keep the weight down.

So my question is, is the handling on the 1LE that much different compared to the 1SS that it justifies an extra $6k - $7k in the used market? If I bought a 1SS, got wider wheels, and did springs, bushings, and sway bar with the money I saved will the handling be better/comparable? Or should I just suck it up and get the 1LE?
This is a great question and something I've been interested in myself, especially with the used car market the way it is. My 2017 SS (non-1LE) is almost 4 years old and I can get very close to what I paid for it new (about 90% or the original purchase price before taxes).

My initial thought on this was this: if the 'track' oriented tires on the 1LE require substantial heat before providing more grip than the regular SS, maybe the real world / street performance difference between the two is not all that much? So I decided to test drive both and get feedback from others to help make a decision -- of which I'm still undecided

After driving both back to back on back roads, here's my observations (disclaimer: ambient temp was ~60F):
  • "Sport" and "Track" mode on the SS 1LE is surprisingly comfortable. I was expecting a significantly firmer ride than my non-MRC SS.
  • Recaro seats are very supportive, but also surprisingly comfortable. I really like the base seats in the SS as well, but the bolstering on the Recaro seat is significantly beefier to hold you in place laterally.
  • The HUD shift light with the 1LE package has a nice shift light that I could see being useful at the dragsrip or track once you get used to how it's set up.
  • On the street and in cooler weather (it was around 60F during my test drive), I'm not sure the 1LE setup is significantly more capable than the regular SS. On a track or autocross where you can really reach the limits of the cars I think is where the 1LE benefits to braking and handling limits will be more obvious.
  • On a snap-throttle maneuver, there's a weird initial settling to the suspension that I don't recall being there on my passive damper regular SS. It's hard to describe.
  • The base SS is a really well sorted out car on the street. I'd say the steering feel is even better (probably due to skinnier front tires) and overall chassis tuning and braking capabilities feel well matched to the cars power levels.

Overall, after test driving both and after getting feedback from others that have owned both cars (see below), I think this is what it boils down to:
  • SS 1LE really doesn't provide much benefit on the street to justify the added ~$7k (if others disagree, I'm interested in hearing more feedback on this topic)
  • On track, with higher tire temps, SS 1LE capabilities will present themselves from a handling and braking standpoint. You'd need to decide if this added capability warrants the added cost.

Here's a summary of feedback that I got from two people on here that have owned both SS and SS 1LE. They had PMed me with their feedback, so I'm not listing their user names to protect the innocent

Forum member #1 (Owned/tracked SS; Now owns SS 1LE)
"I appreciate you asking me these kinds of questions! Keep in mind, I'm 49 years old and have had a boatload of "performance" types of cars through the years and my taste changes as I age.......
1. As far as street driving goes, I would venture to say there isn't a difference that justifies the cost of the 1LE package. I do believe I may have slid on that onramp due to tire temp as it's about 2 miles from work, but my other standard SS would take it a 5mph faster regardless of temp. These cars might also epitomize the saying "I'd rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow".
2. I have found that my SS 1LE seems to slide easier than my 2017 Camaro SS 6 speed non 1LE did, kind of shocked me on one of my favorite on ramps, not in a good way. See above, may have been tire temp or combination of 8000 mile Goodyears at the time and low temp tire. I also had an extra person in the vehicle, but I can't see that contributing to the rear breaking loose.
3. I have tracked my regular SS once or twice at Roebling Road Raceway, a very high average speed track. It performed quite well. Here's where specific 1LE differences would come into play and make a noticeable difference. I have yet to get it on track, but should be in Feb. 6 piston Brembos are night and day better than 4 piston. My 2015 Mustang GT PP car had the 6 piston and I tracked it at RRR, very noticeable lesser braking ability in the 17 SS 4 piston set up. I could brake much deeper with the 15 GT 6 piston car and have much more confidence doing it. Elsd- haven't experienced it yet, hear it's the bees knees. Recaro seats, dramatically better than standard SS seats at holding you in place. Tires would also have to make a dramatic difference over the standard SS runflat sizes. HUD makes no difference to me, I forget it's there most of the time. I felt like the standard SS suspension did me quite well. Keep in mind, I'm in the intermediate not advanced group HPDE, but I was the fastest guy in every session with the PCA group I ran in, so I'm not afraid to push it for what it's got (and what I feel comfortable with). I never even swapped the OEM pads out, which I know would make a significant difference on track.
I had to trade my Goldwing with my Camaro on this deal and could not find a standard 2020 SS that I liked the looks of as much as my white 17 with factory black 5 star wheels. I liked the standard suspension a little better on the street for the feel it gave, a little more forgiving. This car will literally change lanes depending on the ruts in the road, it's not forgiving and you can't be half asleep while driving it or you'll receive a rude awakening quickly! If I could have kept the regular SS, I would have. I had just done catted longtubes, Pray ported IM and 95MM TB, and E85 with the Pray tune. This car feels slow now........."


Forum member #2 (owned & tracked/{autocrossed} both SS and SS 1LE):
"this is exactly an issue i had with this car.

on the street, the mag ride is nice but its not that much different than the regular ss

autocross. different animal. its amazing compared to the ss. the extra wheel and tire, the mag ride, is amazing. the ediff is a little funky with autocross though. something that took some getting used to."


Quote:
Originally Posted by NYblack1le View Post
1le is a performance bargain. Best $7500 you can spend. Recaros,npp,ediff,mag ride,lt4 in tank pump,big brakes...... the list goes on.
While that may be true, $7000 is around ~20% of the purchase price of my 1SS.. that's a significant amount of money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
While that is true, having more capability that you aren't normally using equals a greater margin for dealing with at least some of the unexpected situations that may arise. That's a good thing.

Even at your normal level of driving enthusiasm, the car will be more composed, which will make you less tense or uneasy. That's another good thing.

Norm
I don't disagree, but I'd argue under certain conditions (like on my test drive of both cars in 60F weather), the SS 1LE tires were possibly less capable than the standard SS tires when neither have a chance to really heat up.

Also, if you aren't able to use the added capability (for street driving for instance), the larger brakes add rotational mass and may not necessarily provide much benefit on the street.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6sigma View Post
It's a legit question. If you are going to mod an SS to improve handling, then I'd go 1LE to start. The 1LE upgrades would cost a lot more than $7k on their own. If you are good with stock SS performance (except tires) then no need to spend the money for more 1LE performance.

As to your question of can you tell a difference with a 1LE vs an SS on the street - I'm not sure but would like to hear from people that have owned both. Does a 1LE offer an improved driving experience on the street or lively back roads? I tend to think it does, but have not owned one so don't really know.
I agree with this. Honestly, I'm still on the fence if I want to upgrade to an SS 1LE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing like an SS View Post
SS to 1LE is quite a difference, but you need to decide what you want and what you'll do with it.
1LE Better grip for acceleration, better in turns (duh!) better braking. Is the SS enough for the street? I would say yes (I drove 3 of them before buying the 1LE). Is the 1LE even better, even if just for street? YES!

Buy it because it's what you want, track or not, SS vs 1LE, only you can decide what makes you happy.

1LE every time for me!
Regarding better grip for acceleration, I beg to differ on this one. Magazine times are basically identical for the SS and SS 1LE and in my experience at the drag strip, the SS 1LE cars are not putting down better 60' or 1/4 mile times than my stock SS. Last time I checked the fast list, I don't recall any stock SS 1LEs running faster than my 12.2 on original tires - that may have changed.

Regarding outright grip on the street, I think it depends on the ambient temps and road conditions. See feedback from "forum member #1" above. On my test drive in 60F weather, I'd say it was pretty hard to tell much difference in capability between the two cars on back roads. Had my test drive been in hotter weather or on better roads, maybe the 1LE benefits would have been more obvious.
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Last edited by vtirocz; 01-04-2021 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:49 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by FarmerFran View Post
OK, this better...

Get the 1LE is is an awesome track weapon, go tear up those twisty roads!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ademarco View Post
So youíre saying get a 1LE? The 1LE handles like it is on rails and sometimes gets squirrelly in the rear when cornering. I canít imagine not having the suspension of the 1LE and would argue that it makes you a better driver than if you were in an SS. The steering, brakes, tires, and suspension work magically together. If anything, the car could use larger tires, because I still lose traction with the amount of torque being sent to them. Iím coming from AWD platforms (Evo X and Raptor). Broke my car in on mountain roads and rear was sliding with 305, but manageable. If I lived in an area with straight roads, then no point in getting 1LE, but the steering response is amazing in this car. Also the 6 speed doesnít have any notchy feel and is amazing.

I would recommend taking both trims for a test drive and see which you could live with. Also recommend buying new if you can.
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