[chaospiece]

Originally Posted by RageWorx

They aren't ramblings its right there in the torque rating Also the times seen so far there is more torque management at play with the A10 vs the A8 in the SS .... A8 - 8L"90" and A10 SS 10L"80" or A10 GT 10R"80". Actually its said the torque handling on the 8L90 is 1000Nm but the for safety rating they list it as 900Nm.

The only A10 that has an equal rating or close to the A8 is the ZL1 A10 as its the 10L"90".

But so far all the fastest times for the 6th gen Camaro platform and the C7 Vette platform have been the A8 - 8L90 and not the 10 speed cousins but the 10L90 could achieve that at some point but not sure its proven to be stronger than the A8 either.

I know everyone loves these 10 speeds and they are great units(and drive way nicer than the A8 especially at low speed driving) but they are not bullet proof and have been starting to fail unfortunately.

The A8 the main issue is the Shudder so with a fluid change/tuning its helps that or solves it completely so other than that the A8 is a great "Performance transmission" ... Drive-ability is not great but as far as power/torque handling and performance the A8 has Not been a disappointment.

However the new 10 speeds are the future and what we currently have so it really doesn't matter but I'm in no rush to dump my A8 for an A10 as its been good to me lol.

-Jon

Thank you for explaining that! I learned something today.

[Balzdeep]

I have owned a 15 c7 A8 Vette and a 18 GT pp1 a10 at the same time. The stock vette would run 12.2-12.3’s @ 116 mph in track mode at my track which is 1500’ above sea level and faces west. The mustang with just a base E85 tune ran 11.9’s @ 118. With more tuning, ported 88mm tb, and Flowmaster axle back it now traps 121-122 mph on factory tires. Corrected for sea level it is 123-124 mph trap car. It would take an LT1 camaro heads,cam, longtubes, and tuning to run with or pull a decent E tuned a10 gen3 coyote.

[RageWorx]

Originally Posted by Balzdeep

I have owned a 15 c7 A8 Vette and a 18 GT pp1 a10 at the same time. The stock vette would run 12.2-12.3’s @ 116 mph in track mode at my track which is 1500’ above sea level and faces west. The mustang with just a base E85 tune ran 11.9’s @ 118. With more tuning, ported 88mm tb, and Flowmaster axle back it now traps 121-122 mph on factory tires. Corrected for sea level it is 123-124 mph trap car. It would take an LT1 camaro heads,cam, longtubes, and tuning to run with or pull a decent E tuned a10 gen3 coyote.

Thats moving no doubt I really like the Coyote engines always have the new gen 3 is no exception (from a performance stand point I won't get into durability/issues).

I think what you are seeing is an example of is just how much a higher revving, higher peak hp/torque, lower displacement V8 like the Coyote can benefit from aggressive trans programming and close ratio advantages of the A10 to keep the RPMs high and into that killer upper end power band that the Coyotes are known for. Drag mode anyone those things fly surprisingly quick. But then put that same engine behind an M6 with its gearing and its kind of a dog really even the newer GTs sorry LT1 cars have usually been quicker in that case.

On the other hand the LT1 , while a great engine in its own right, is not the high rpm screamer the Coyote is. So keeping the rpms and shift points super high in the powerband doesn't really benefit stock cam LT1s like the Coyotes ... see LT1 A8 vs A10 times negligible diff and no aggressive tq management cutting dragmode on the LT1 A10 A8 seems a tick quicker so far on the LT1. Also where the LT1 shines is low end tq and that meaty mid range power love it so why shift above that no need.

However I haven't seen that kind of a discrepancy in my track time between well running LT1 cars and the Gen 3 Coyotes (didn't say GT because even the F150 5.0s can be really fast lol). And it certainly wouldn't take all that to equal out theres many bolt on SS cars on this forum in the 10s.

I agree with the majority of your post just don't think the LT1 is quite that far behind or at least this hasn't been my experience.

-Jon

[Balzdeep]

Originally Posted by RageWorx

Thats moving no doubt I really like the Coyote engines always have the new gen 3 is no exception (from a performance stand point I won't get into durability/issues).

I think what you are seeing is an example of is just how much a higher revving, higher peak hp/torque, lower displacement V8 like the Coyote can benefit from aggressive trans programming and close ratio advantages of the A10 to keep the RPMs high and into that killer upper end power band that the Coyotes are known for. Drag mode anyone those things fly surprisingly quick. But then put that same engine behind an M6 with its gearing and its kind of a dog really even the newer GTs sorry LT1 cars have usually been quicker in that case.

On the other hand the LT1 , while a great engine in its own right, is not the high rpm screamer the Coyote is. So keeping the rpms and shift points super high in the powerband doesn't really benefit stock cam LT1s like the Coyotes ... see LT1 A8 vs A10 times negligible diff and no aggressive tq management cutting dragmode on the LT1 A10 A8 seems a tick quicker so far on the LT1. Also where the LT1 shines is low end tq and that meaty mid range power love it so why shift above that no need.

However I haven't seen that kind of a discrepancy in my track time between well running LT1 cars and the Gen 3 Coyotes (didn't say GT because even the F150 5.0s can be really fast lol). And it certainly wouldn't take all that to equal out theres many bolt on SS cars on this forum in the 10s.

I agree with the majority of your post just don't think the LT1 is quite that far behind or at least this hasn't been my experience.

-Jon

Jon,

For sure the torquier LT1 at lower rpm feels great on the street. The gen3 once E85 tuned picks up a ton of timing down low (12 to 1 compression) plus the 3.55 gears on the a10 is super punchy. Yes, the rpm spread on gear changes on the stang goes from 7500 rpm shift point down to 6400 rpms (back up again) through the gears in drag mode. It is right in the meat of the powerband (very efficient) and throws all the torque into the wot shifts. The car accelerates on the shifts (rear wheels spinning faster than the car mph) pretty good 2-5th gear. From a roll they are strong. Just my thoughts.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Balzdeep

I have owned a 15 c7 A8 Vette and a 18 GT pp1 a10 at the same time. The stock vette would run 12.2-12.3’s @ 116 mph in track mode at my track which is 1500’ above sea level and faces west. The mustang with just a base E85 tune ran 11.9’s @ 118. With more tuning, ported 88mm tb, and Flowmaster axle back it now traps 121-122 mph on factory tires. Corrected for sea level it is 123-124 mph trap car. It would take an LT1 camaro heads,cam, longtubes, and tuning to run with or pull a decent E tuned a10 gen3 coyote.

What did your C7 A8 run with an E85 tune?

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Balzdeep

I have owned a 15 c7 A8 Vette and a 18 GT pp1 a10 at the same time. The stock vette would run 12.2-12.3’s @ 116 mph in track mode at my track which is 1500’ above sea level and faces west. The mustang with just a base E85 tune ran 11.9’s @ 118. With more tuning, ported 88mm tb, and Flowmaster axle back it now traps 121-122 mph on factory tires. Corrected for sea level it is 123-124 mph trap car. It would take an LT1 camaro heads,cam, longtubes, and tuning to run with or pull a decent E tuned a10 gen3 coyote.

That last statement about the LT1 Camaro needing heads, cam, etc to run with a Gen3 Coyote is way off from what I have seen on the dragstrip. My observations at the dragstrip are the opposite, the Coyote Mustang runs slower ETs than the LT1 Camaro, and therefore they would need more work done to them than the LT1 has just to keep up with an SS in NA form. Best '18 Coyote A10 (NA) similar to what you described was 11.70sec here with mods that he admitted to being E85 tune, CAI, catback exhaust, and drag radials on back. Compare that to my '17 Camaro SS A8 with E85 tune, v-max ptb and drop-in air filter (neither helped but they are mods so I'm disclosing them), and drag radials on back, which ran 11.34sec at the same track. Conclusion is that the SS beat the '18 Coyote on the dragstrip handily from what I've seen.

[gmcvt]

Originally Posted by RageWorx

Thats moving no doubt I really like the Coyote engines always have the new gen 3 is no exception (from a performance stand point I won't get into durability/issues).

I think what you are seeing is an example of is just how much a higher revving, higher peak hp/torque, lower displacement V8 like the Coyote can benefit from aggressive trans programming and close ratio advantages of the A10 to keep the RPMs high and into that killer upper end power band that the Coyotes are known for. Drag mode anyone those things fly surprisingly quick. But then put that same engine behind an M6 with its gearing and its kind of a dog really even the newer GTs sorry LT1 cars have usually been quicker in that case.

On the other hand the LT1 , while a great engine in its own right, is not the high rpm screamer the Coyote is. So keeping the rpms and shift points super high in the powerband doesn't really benefit stock cam LT1s like the Coyotes ... see LT1 A8 vs A10 times negligible diff and no aggressive tq management cutting dragmode on the LT1 A10 A8 seems a tick quicker so far on the LT1. Also where the LT1 shines is low end tq and that meaty mid range power love it so why shift above that no need.

However I haven't seen that kind of a discrepancy in my track time between well running LT1 cars and the Gen 3 Coyotes (didn't say GT because even the F150 5.0s can be really fast lol). And it certainly wouldn't take all that to equal out theres many bolt on SS cars on this forum in the 10s.

I agree with the majority of your post just don't think the LT1 is quite that far behind or at least this hasn't been my experience.

-Jon

Just an example of your point here and it doesn't have heads or cam:

[OneSlowV]

Originally Posted by Balzdeep

I have owned a 15 c7 A8 Vette and a 18 GT pp1 a10 at the same time. The stock vette would run 12.2-12.3’s @ 116 mph in track mode at my track which is 1500’ above sea level and faces west. The mustang with just a base E85 tune ran 11.9’s @ 118. With more tuning, ported 88mm tb, and Flowmaster axle back it now traps 121-122 mph on factory tires. Corrected for sea level it is 123-124 mph trap car. It would take an LT1 camaro heads,cam, longtubes, and tuning to run with or pull a decent E tuned a10 gen3 coyote.

My A8 lt1 trapped 127mph in 1400 da with just bolt ons a cam/heads LT1 would murder a A10 5.0 with those mods not even close in a race

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Balzdeep

I have owned a 15 c7 A8 Vette and a 18 GT pp1 a10 at the same time. The stock vette would run 12.2-12.3’s @ 116 mph in track mode at my track which is 1500’ above sea level and faces west. The mustang with just a base E85 tune ran 11.9’s @ 118. With more tuning, ported 88mm tb, and Flowmaster axle back it now traps 121-122 mph on factory tires. Corrected for sea level it is 123-124 mph trap car. It would take an LT1 camaro heads,cam, longtubes, and tuning to run with or pull a decent E tuned a10 gen3 coyote.

You're smoking crack buddy... unless you have stock times for your 5.0 or e85 numbers for the vette to compare your numbers are irrelevant... there are plenty of bolt on lt1s in the 10s trapping 125+ and heads cam cars in the 9s trapping over 140, even a manual one in the 9s. There are about two or three 5.0s in the 9s NA and they're tin cans and none of them manual.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by gmcvt

Just an example of your point here and it doesn't have heads or cam:

Is that your car? I know pray mentioned that was with less mods than the 5.0 and no trans tuning if its the post I'm thinking of.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

That last statement about the LT1 Camaro needing heads, cam, etc to run with a Gen3 Coyote is way off from what I have seen on the dragstrip. My observations at the dragstrip are the opposite, the Coyote Mustang runs slower ETs than the LT1 Camaro, and therefore they would need more work done to them than the LT1 has just to keep up with an SS in NA form. Best '18 Coyote A10 (NA) similar to what you described was 11.70sec here with mods that he admitted to being E85 tune, CAI, catback exhaust, and drag radials on back. Compare that to my '17 Camaro SS A8 with E85 tune, v-max ptb and drop-in air filter (neither helped but they are mods so I'm disclosing them), and drag radials on back, which ran 11.34sec at the same track. Conclusion is that the SS beat the '18 Coyote on the dragstrip handily from what I've seen.

This is what actually happens in reality. The fact that he thinks it takes a heads cam car to beat an e85 5.0 proves he has know idea what he's talking about or has limited knowledge/experience on the matter. I mean how many bolt on only 10 second cars does pray have alone vs the handful of 10 second NA 5.0s.

I do think the 5.0s respond very well to an e85 tune, probably better than the lt1 does, but the lt1 has more bolt on potential with more bolt on mods available and definately way more NA potential period.

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

M6 vs m6 is not even close (relatively speaking), I regularly race my cousin in his m6 GT pp1 in my ss 1le and smoke him. Yes even high speed rolls to 115-130mph... though the GT does a lot better at 50-60 mph starting speeds, usually I get the hit and keep the lead at those speeds... Obviously drivers matter in m6 cars but we've ran that race every possible way and I always pull. I'll even start in 3rd on a 50 roll to give him the hit and still pass.

I was at Bradenton this week and all us in muscle cars were running crap times, prep just wasn't there. There were a few mustangs there and beat them both, I lost to a c7 and another ss 1le lol. One 5.0 was on e85 tune with a jlt, he should have pulled on me at the end and passed but his crappy mt82 m6 trans locked him out of gear long enough for me to stay ahead.

I think auto vs auto it's a lot closer... mustang probably has the edge on a high speed roll and camaro from a dig and slower rolls but I've seen it go either way.

There’s something wrong with his car

No way

1000 hours of seat time in a 2011 coyote auto, and about 100 hours of seat time in a base SS auto.

Camaro would crush it off the line, like murder it, but in a roll race, there is no way

[FarmerFran]

It is quite proven the 5.0 is faster up top and the 6.2 is faster down low. Go drive a 5.0 - had one. Was fast up top, not really fun on the street down low - too revvy. The good ole push rod is always more fun on the street.

IMHO

[FarmerFran]

Good video