[Baldilocks01SS]

These same old arguments were around when power steering came into prominence over manual steering. Luckily there weren't online forums then.... I'm glad we've moved mostly away from manual steering.

[rocket403]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I wouldn't buy a 75+K car to go drag racing. I would buy a dedicated strip car for 20K and run MUCH faster than these new heavy platforms.

I went to one of the tracks outside of Toronto 2 weeks ago just happened to be Mopar Day, there was a huge selection of Hellcats (Charger/Challenger) along with some nice TrackHawks. There was a huge group of what looked like factory drag cars from the 60's as well. From the races that I was there for the fastest car was a 2018 Hellcat Challenger that ran a 9.25 there was nothing that I saw run that day run faster other than a Snowmobile that ran a 8.40.

There were no 20k drag cars that were running 9.25 and the Drag Cars were all 50K plus and any car build North of the border would cost much more than it would in the US.

TrackHawks were running 11.2 stock and one was well into the 10's

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

BTW, why is the GT500 soo heavy? It has all that CF and shit. Why is that thing over 4000 pounds to begin with? And after all this time they couldn't manage to distribute the weight more evenly?

Basically, from what I have read and heard and a little guessing on my part is this.

The Base GT500 is fully loaded (save for premium audio and Nav) so theres weight from that stuff. Supercharger obviously adds weight, massive brakes, and supposedly and hopefully more than enough sufficient cooling. I'll try to find the article, but one of the main goals was to make sure the GT500 can go all out all the time. That to me, is probably why it's so heavy and so expensive. Things Ford cut out of it's other cars had to be thrown in learning from all the mistakes they have made so far with the S550. Those things add cost and weight.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

If you really want to compare apples to apples, then you really should add the Recaros. I think at 4225, we can safely assume the base will need all it can get to keep up with the ZL1, so lets add the handling pack in there too.

Now the cost(not including 1500 discount on chevy) is:
ZL1 w/A10 = 66,690
GT500 Base w/Recaros and H.P. = 77,090

That is a $10,400 difference trying to be justified without performance numbers.

Will the Handling pack really have much of an improvement? It is gurney flaps and splitter wickers... I don't know enough to say yes or no.

But yeah the GT500 is for sure more expensive, better bring the performance to back up that price tag.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Basically, from what I have read and heard and a little guessing on my part is this.

The Base GT500 is fully loaded (save for premium audio and Nav) so theres weight from that stuff. Supercharger obviously adds weight, massive brakes, and supposedly and hopefully more than enough sufficient cooling. I'll try to find the article, but one of the main goals was to make sure the GT500 can go all out all the time. That to me, is probably why it's so heavy and so expensive. Things Ford cut out of it's other cars had to be thrown in learning from all the mistakes they have made so far with the S550. Those things add cost and weight.



Will the Handling pack really have much of an improvement? It is gurney flaps and splitter wickers... I don't know enough to say yes or no.

But yeah the GT500 is for sure more expensive, better bring the performance to back up that price tag.

It was a rhetorical question. Mainly because GM did all of that with the ZL1 and no CF and still came in under 4000 pounds. The GT500 in any configuration will need a selective track that favors it to pull off a win. And at that point it is still a $74K that nobody can actually get for $74K going up against a $64K car. It really won't (or shouldn't) matter to the Ford guys because only a select few of them will ever get one anyway. I certainly wouldn't brag about a car that I don't have the means or opportunity to own. Anyway, if they can keep it on a track with long straights then the GT500 might have a shot.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So an extra $7K for a trans, lol!! Ok.

Ha; you missed the part where I said an additional 110 hp (and the DCT).

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

BTW, why is the GT500 soo heavy? It has all that CF and shit. Why is that thing over 4000 pounds to begin with? And after all this time they couldn't manage to distribute the weight more evenly?

What is CF on the base GT500? It is a heavy beast no doubt. Didn't you look up the weight of the DCT a while back and it's something like 100 lbs heavier than an M6? I would guess it's about 40-50 lbs heavier than the ZL1's beefed up A10.

I am still baffled as to why they couldn't keep the weight closer to 4,000 lbs, or at least under 4,100 lbs in the base GT500.

That said, similar to the ZR1 being around 100 lbs heavier than the Z06, an LT5 powered ZL1 would be about 100 lbs heavier than the LT4 ZL1. Which would put the auto LT5 ZL1 at around 4,050 lbs.

It would also be more expensive than the LT4 powered ZL1, most likely in-line with the base GT500. If you think GM would put the LT5 in the ZL1 and not increase the price significantly, and if you think an LT5 powered ZL1 wouldn't also be heavier than the LT4 ZL1, I have some ocean front property in AZ I could sell you.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It was a rhetorical question. Mainly because GM did all of that with the ZL1 and no CF and still came in under 4000 pounds. The GT500 in any configuration will need a selective track that favors it to pull off a win. And at that point it is still a $74K that nobody can actually get for $74K going up against a $64K car. It really won't (or shouldn't) matter to the Ford guys because only a select few of them will ever get one anyway. I certainly wouldn't brag about a car that I don't have the means or opportunity to own. Anyway, if they can keep it on a track with long straights then the GT500 might have a shot.

Didn't seem rhetorical when you asked lol.

Basically to me is it looks like the result of bandaids, and having to put stuff in that maybe they never anticipated having to do due to how good the Alpha Camaro is. Basically, ford short sightedness catching up with them again

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Will the Handling pack really have much of an improvement? It is gurney flaps and splitter wickers... I don't know enough to say yes or no.

But yeah the GT500 is for sure more expensive, better bring the performance to back up that price tag.

WOW, is that all that comes with the handling pack? No stiffer springs or anything?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

What is CF on the base GT500? It is a heavy beast no doubt. Didn't you look up the weight of the DCT a while back and it's something like 100 lbs heavier than an M6? I would guess it's about 40-50 lbs heavier than the ZL1's beefed up A10.

I am still baffled as to why they couldn't keep the weight closer to 4,000 lbs, or at least under 4,100 lbs in the base GT500.

That said, similar to the ZR1 being around 100 lbs heavier than the Z06, an LT5 powered ZL1 would be about 100 lbs heavier than the LT4 ZL1. Which would put the auto LT5 ZL1 at around 4,050 lbs.

It would also be more expensive than the LT4 powered ZL1, most likely in-line with the base GT500. If you think GM would put the LT5 in the ZL1 and not increase the price significantly, and if you think an LT5 powered ZL1 wouldn't also be heavier than the LT4 ZL1, I have some ocean front property in AZ I could sell you.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Didn't seem rhetorical when you asked lol.

Basically to me is it looks like the result of bandaids, and having to put stuff in that maybe they never anticipated having to do due to how good the Alpha Camaro is. Basically, ford short sightedness catching up with them again

I think Ford is pulling another gimmick with the GT500. I think they built it just well enough to claim a nice looking 0-100-0 and just well enough so it can just barely beat the ZL1 but only on long straight tracks and just to be able to say they did it. Kinda like when they threw those tires on the PP2 just so they could say they could keep up with the SLE even if it was just for 1 lap.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

WOW, is that all that comes with the handling pack? No stiffer springs or anything?

According to the build and price site yes

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think Ford is pulling another gimmick with the GT500. I think they built it just well enough to claim a nice looking 0-100-0 and just well enough so it can just barely beat the ZL1 but only on long straight tracks and just to be able to say they did it. Kinda like when they threw those tires on the PP2 just so they could say they could keep up with the SLE even if it was just for 1 lap.

time will tell with that. We will see when it finally hits the streets for reviews.

The car has been delayed enough and is expensive enough that I think they actually went all in trying to make the best car they can. Not undertired, massive brakes, proper cooling. All things in the past ford has cut short on, not on this one which is why I think it's so expensive

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by shaffe

The car has been delayed enough and is expensive enough that I think they actually went all in trying to make the best car they can. Not undertired, massive brakes, proper cooling. All things in the past ford has cut short on, not on this one which is why I think it's so expensive

...and heavy.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Yup. They have their uses, I would love a 2013 e90 M3 with a DCT for my daily driver.

Edit: The M3 in my profile has been sold. If it were a manual, I would still have it.

I love the E92 M3s, but mine would be manual and I wouldn't sell it either

Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS

These same old arguments were around when power steering came into prominence over manual steering. Luckily there weren't online forums then.... I'm glad we've moved mostly away from manual steering.

Weird logic...in this way of thinking, DCT is inferior old tech and you should be hailing Tesla's - got yours yet?

Originally Posted by rocket403

I went to one of the tracks outside of Toronto 2 weeks ago just happened to be Mopar Day, there was a huge selection of Hellcats (Charger/Challenger) along with some nice TrackHawks. There was a huge group of what looked like factory drag cars from the 60's as well. From the races that I was there for the fastest car was a 2018 Hellcat Challenger that ran a 9.25 there was nothing that I saw run that day run faster other than a Snowmobile that ran a 8.40.

There were no 20k drag cars that were running 9.25 and the Drag Cars were all 50K plus and any car build North of the border would cost much more than it would in the US.

TrackHawks were running 11.2 stock and one was well into the 10's

Plenty of built racecars with certified cages for sale in the 20-25 range that run single digits. Racing Junk, and lots of FB groups...a little search would show you this. Again, I want a dedicated strip car, not a 4500 lb 75+K Mopar that is built for the street and is quick at the strip. Saw plenty of them on Saturday - none were fast except the Trackhawk which interests me less.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I love the E92 M3s, but mine would be manual and I wouldn't sell it either

That is really my only regret in my car choices over the years, not sure wtf I was thinking not buying a manual HAHAHAHA

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

That is really my only regret in my car choices over the years, not sure wtf I was thinking not buying a manual HAHAHAHA

Lol, that's why no matter that the N54 is notoriously issue prone - I am keeping ours as it is manual and I love daily driving it. I will just do the major issue fixes ahead of time.