03-17-2024, 09:47 AM | #1 |
Drives: 2023 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Ohio
Posts: 19
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Boost Limit on 93 with Stock Blower
Here’s a bit of a run down. My 2023 ZL1 shot a rod out because of fuel pressure failure and I decided to completely build my motor out. Because of my bad previous experiences with e85 I decided I want to do 93 first and then ease into some modifications for e85 later. I want somewhere around 750-770 WHP.
Here’s the setup: Kong Stage X Ported LT4 Blower and rebuild 103 MM TB 2 Inch Kooks Headers Catless Roto Fab Big Gulp Griptech 2.3 Upper Pulley, Stock Lower Stage 1 FI interchiller DSX Aux Pump OEM heads ported Massive cam (wasn’t given a stage, custom grind) Circle D TQ Converter Thompson engines LT1 416 Short Block rated for 1200 Crank HP Any help would be greatly appreciated. Do I need to change up my mod list to run 93 safely? Is my target WHP number aiming to high? Whatever needs to be changed please let me know, don’t want to run into this expensive issue again!! Last edited by Daler; 03-17-2024 at 10:13 AM. |
03-17-2024, 10:06 AM | #2 |
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,800
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That setup should make 750 easy on 93. The larger cam bleeding off dynamic compression should allow 93 to go a little further. I would say you can get close to 800 on good pump 93.
What issue have you had with E85? I have experienced none and have been running it for years. Your setup would pick up a lot of power on even a E50 blend.
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2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA |
03-17-2024, 10:18 AM | #3 |
Drives: 2023 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Ohio
Posts: 19
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To explain it more in depth, basically prior to all of this I had an intake, catback, 2 inch kooks headers, and a 2.3 Pulley. It was tuned on e50 with my DSX flex fuel sensor and literally the second day it started misfiring multiple times on pulls and blew up. At that time it was at e35 when it blew because I filled more 93 in it because it was cold that day. It was working very well on be Dyno and when I took it right from the shop it was running perfect. Once it got cold then it seemed to start having this fuel pressure issue. Tuner told me fuel pressure dropped to 300-500 every time I did a pull which is a very big no no. But the thing is when I sent to to my buddy’s shop go get built there was so much damage in the bottom end the at he said it wasn’t a HPFP issue, he says maybe too much boost or bearing blew out and then cause a rod to get shot and screw the motor up completely, nothing was salvageable except for the heads surprisingly. What do you think the issue was, defective motor or some sort of part maybe??
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03-17-2024, 04:45 PM | #4 |
Snackbar Tuning
Drives: 2023 SGM ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,117
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Cold weather increased the demand of fuel volume and you were likely already on the edge in warmer weather. Cold weather tanked the fuel pressure and your EOI went into the land of detonation and blew your motor. I've seen this before when people don't know what their real limits of Ethanol are for their build.
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03-17-2024, 05:01 PM | #5 | |
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,800
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Quote:
__________________
2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA |
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03-17-2024, 05:50 PM | #6 |
Drives: '20 ZLE Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Mile High
Posts: 3,562
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You didn't describe the dyno/ logging/ studying/tuning in detail so I'll add that it has to be carried out in small increments. We made nine pulls over a day a week ago to get it done. Understanding a log takes 30 min
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'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650. 100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O. 2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel. 4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes). 2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next. |
03-17-2024, 11:48 PM | #7 | |
Drives: 2023 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Ohio
Posts: 19
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Quote:
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03-17-2024, 11:50 PM | #8 | |
Drives: 2023 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Ohio
Posts: 19
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Quote:
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03-17-2024, 11:53 PM | #9 |
Drives: 2023 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Ohio
Posts: 19
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My tuners pretty good, best in my city, he’s known for doing all the super high hp cars down here in my state and he’s trusted among many so it was a no brainer to go to him cause he’s done high HP lt4’s all the time. He showed me the logs when he was tuning it on the hub Dyno and there was literally nothing wrong at all. When I took it out of the shop to give it a ride after he was done it was running perfect. When I went home to drop my car off and come back to pay and pick up the car is when it got a little colder and then it started to drop fuel pressure and misfire. It’s just very odd to me what happened.
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03-18-2024, 08:01 AM | #10 | |
Snackbar Tuning
Drives: 2023 SGM ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,117
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Quote:
E35 on the stock fuel system with a Kong X port, a 2.3 upper and cold weather is not well below the limit of the stock fuel system. I tune a lot of these cars with Flex Fuel. Unless you live somewhere in a high altitude zone, you're already on the edge with E35 in decent weather. Let it get cold and the demand goes way up and the fuel pressures will fall off a cliff. It's not a gradual drop when you're on the edge, its more like falling off the cliff. I could be wrong, I wasn't there. But if I had to bet, I would still bet a loss of fuel pressure was the cause. I only offer the advice so that you don't make the same mistake twice.
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03-18-2024, 09:24 AM | #11 |
Having FUN in the SUN...
Drives: 2022 M6 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 1,052
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Great thread and learning experience for all... To the OP, so sorry this happened.
Question to all; is there no way to safeguard this event from happening with the tune? I thought the KR sensors were suppose to kick in and save us in those instances? Perhaps an AFR gauge in your face is the best safeguard? or... maybe a Banks iDash with rail or low side pressure posted for constant monitoring?
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2022 M6 ZLE: Katech CNC Ported Blower + Ported Heads + 103mm TB + Oil Pump + C5R Chain + Valve Covers + Coil Relocation
TSP VVT and DoD Delete Covers + LME Chain Guide + DSX Billet Lid + ATI Damper + 9.17" Lower + 2.4" Upper + MM Wild CC Coated ARH + AWE Touring + Magnaflow Center X + E85 + MSD Coils + Banks iDash + JMS Booster + Synergy Fender Tank ALL the RED Rear End BMR Goodies + JRE Terminator Cam Package + Remote Tuning and Moral Support from TED @ JRE BMR Motor Mounts + DMS Front HX + FIC 30's + APEX SM.10's + 305/345 R888R's = 770rwhp 785rwtq @E50 13.5psi |
03-18-2024, 10:21 AM | #12 | |
Drives: 2015 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Clinton Twp, Michigan
Posts: 249
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Also why I'm not a fan of running blends. They really need to be baby sat and most of my customers do not want the hassle of consistently logging. |
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03-18-2024, 10:34 AM | #13 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 63
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03-18-2024, 10:38 AM | #14 | |
Having FUN in the SUN...
Drives: 2022 M6 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 1,052
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Quote:
But would someone not have the same issue running straight E85? or, are you tuning the car based on the coldest anticipated weather they might see?
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2022 M6 ZLE: Katech CNC Ported Blower + Ported Heads + 103mm TB + Oil Pump + C5R Chain + Valve Covers + Coil Relocation
TSP VVT and DoD Delete Covers + LME Chain Guide + DSX Billet Lid + ATI Damper + 9.17" Lower + 2.4" Upper + MM Wild CC Coated ARH + AWE Touring + Magnaflow Center X + E85 + MSD Coils + Banks iDash + JMS Booster + Synergy Fender Tank ALL the RED Rear End BMR Goodies + JRE Terminator Cam Package + Remote Tuning and Moral Support from TED @ JRE BMR Motor Mounts + DMS Front HX + FIC 30's + APEX SM.10's + 305/345 R888R's = 770rwhp 785rwtq @E50 13.5psi |
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