[JamesNoBrakes]

Everything I've seen says the GT4 is not a good daily driver, significantly harsh and more akin to the ZL1 1LE. You'd have to drive them back to back to know for sure, but buying something harsh as hell makes you hate the car nearly all the time. Theoretically, they (SS 1LE and GT4) are close or equal in terms of outright performance, but the Cayman GTS doesn't give up much and that'd probably be my porsche pick. There are some light mods you can do to it to make it a little faster and aggressive, if you wish. If I got the Cayman, PDK, it's just matched for that car.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

If you don't drive the car, yes, the Porsche will keep its value well.

But you know what they say about not driving and keeping the mileage low for resale...



Also, since we are on the topic of ownership, I fail to see how Porsche is somehow cheaper to maintain than a Camaro, even if you don't drive it often. Parts and labour will both be more expensive. Insurance will also be more expensive for the more expensive car.

And really, if we are talking about depreciation, anyone who buys new is an idiot.



Porsche has nothing on Tesla in this regard.

NOTHING.

Sent from toaster or something

Yeah, I never understood that logic. If you tie up that much money and let it sit in the garage, that is just dumb.

If you finance it and let it sit in the garage, you are better off renting a supercar once every couple months from a exotic rental car place.

Either way, I do not get the logic of garage queen cars.

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Either way, I do not get the logic of garage queen cars.

Own multiple cars have a family and you’ll get it

Lots of sports car owners have a comfy and roomy DD and a nice sports car in the garage. Between being busy AF with a family and it not being practical, there just isn’t much time to drive the sports car no matter how much you want to.

I DD a gmc sierra, I have a restored manual e30 in my garage. You can imagine how much more fun to drive the e30 is than the truck. I literally try to take that e30 out as much as I can. I put like 2k miles a year on the damn thing.

Before I entered that life, I too thought these guys were just keeping their garage queens perfect because they are too cheap to drive them. It’s just not the case. They literally don’t have time to drive them.

The good part about this though....you can make your sports car totally balls to the wall uncompromising fun. Ariel atom? Sure. Gutted race car? Why not

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by joe944

That's because Tesla fanboys aren't car enthusiasts. They're far more like a cult.

I’m a tesla fan boy, i’m a super gear head.

I drove, launched, and took the handling limit while test driving the p100d and the model 3 performance.

I know you didn’t ask, but here’s my no bs review. Bonus - I happened to rent a camaro SS a few weeks before I drove them, so the camaro was my handling bench mark.

So camaro SS vs both fast tesla sedans.

Handling -
I have no idea what people are talking about when they say teslas handle well. The model S is a TANK and the model 3 handles like a honda accord with in insane corner exit. Words cannot describe how much better the camaro handled, I don’t care what the magazines say, they both handle like ass. They have such high traction that you can just wrench them into a corner like a lunatic and manhandle them. That precise and controlled feel you get from the camaro is the polar opposite of them.

Acceleration - p100d - damn. This is this cars pony trick. If you want to ride a roller coaster every single day, this is your car. We all know about this though. It doesn’t feel fast on the highway though.
Model 3 - awesome below 50-60 mph. After that, felt like a boring v6 sedan. Handling was way better than model S but still not great. Corner exit was incredible.

Fun to drive - the model S is not fun unless you are flooring it. Anything else is boring as hell. The model 3 however is a riot. The low speed handling and acceleration of it pretty much make it the most fun I’ve ever had skooting around the streets of suburbia. It’s way more fun than a camaro in that aspect, like miata levels of fun. It’s what the car was built for. If this is what you do, model 3 performance all the way.

You want to rip some rural roads with high speed sweepers, the teslas suck. The camaro is soooooo much better for this.

Oh and before you say electric is no fun. You’re right, sort of. They are less fun than gas because of the noise and feel. But they are still a riot.

In comparison to the auto ss camaro I drove. I would put the fun aspect of the acceleration of the model 3 performance as equal to the camaro. Meaning the m3p does it in 3.2 and the camaro 4.0. So just knock about a second off the teslas 0-60 time if you want to know about how much fun it is compared to a gas car.

[GuywithL86]

Fun fact - I was looking for a good place to launch to p100d, so i pulled to the shoulder on the highway. There was a tractor trailer coming up in the middle lane, doing what I guess about 70mph. I was stopped. I floored it when our front bumpers were equal.

I never saw the back of the tractor trailer, that’s how fast the tesla is

[Nothing like an SS]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

I’m a tesla fan boy, i’m a super gear head.

I drove, launched, and took the handling limit while test driving the p100d and the model 3 performance.

I know you didn’t ask, but here’s my no bs review. Bonus - I happened to rent a camaro SS a few weeks before I drove them, so the camaro was my handling bench mark.

So camaro SS vs both fast tesla sedans.

Handling -
I have no idea what people are talking about when they say teslas handle well. The model S is a TANK and the model 3 handles like a honda accord with in insane corner exit. Words cannot describe how much better the camaro handled, I don’t care what the magazines say, they both handle like ass. They have such high traction that you can just wrench them into a corner like a lunatic and manhandle them. That precise and controlled feel you get from the camaro is the polar opposite of them.

Acceleration - p100d - damn. This is this cars pony trick. If you want to ride a roller coaster every single day, this is your car. We all know about this though. It doesn’t feel fast on the highway though.
Model 3 - awesome below 50-60 mph. After that, felt like a boring v6 sedan. Handling was way better than model S but still not great. Corner exit was incredible.

Fun to drive - the model S is not fun unless you are flooring it. Anything else is boring as hell. The model 3 however is a riot. The low speed handling and acceleration of it pretty much make it the most fun I’ve ever had skooting around the streets of suburbia. It’s way more fun than a camaro in that aspect, like miata levels of fun. It’s what the car was built for. If this is what you do, model 3 performance all the way.

You want to rip some rural roads with high speed sweepers, the teslas suck. The camaro is soooooo much better for this.

Oh and before you say electric is no fun. You’re right, sort of. They are less fun than gas because of the noise and feel. But they are still a riot.

In comparison to the auto ss camaro I drove. I would put the fun aspect of the acceleration of the model 3 performance as equal to the camaro. Meaning the m3p does it in 3.2 and the camaro 4.0. So just knock about a second off the teslas 0-60 time if you want to know about how much fun it is compared to a gas car.

Nice, balanced review. Thanks for that!

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Own multiple cars have a family and you’ll get it

Lots of sports car owners have a comfy and roomy DD and a nice sports car in the garage. Between being busy AF with a family and it not being practical, there just isn’t much time to drive the sports car no matter how much you want to.

I DD a gmc sierra, I have a restored manual e30 in my garage. You can imagine how much more fun to drive the e30 is than the truck. I literally try to take that e30 out as much as I can. I put like 2k miles a year on the damn thing.

Before I entered that life, I too thought these guys were just keeping their garage queens perfect because they are too cheap to drive them. It’s just not the case. They literally don’t have time to drive them.

The good part about this though....you can make your sports car totally balls to the wall uncompromising fun. Ariel atom? Sure. Gutted race car? Why not

For a classic car, I can kinda understand the garage queen thing.

For a new car, less so, since you can rent them if you drive them so little, as said.

It's your car, do whatever you want. I was just saying that the resale value argument typically only applies to cars that have low mileage. Rack up the odo and the resale will tank for any car, but at the same time, you get your money's worth in the enjoyment.

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

I’m a tesla fan boy, i’m a super gear head.

I drove, launched, and took the handling limit while test driving the p100d and the model 3 performance.

I know you didn’t ask, but here’s my no bs review. Bonus - I happened to rent a camaro SS a few weeks before I drove them, so the camaro was my handling bench mark.

So camaro SS vs both fast tesla sedans.

Handling -
I have no idea what people are talking about when they say teslas handle well. The model S is a TANK and the model 3 handles like a honda accord with in insane corner exit. Words cannot describe how much better the camaro handled, I don’t care what the magazines say, they both handle like ass. They have such high traction that you can just wrench them into a corner like a lunatic and manhandle them. That precise and controlled feel you get from the camaro is the polar opposite of them.

Acceleration - p100d - damn. This is this cars pony trick. If you want to ride a roller coaster every single day, this is your car. We all know about this though. It doesn’t feel fast on the highway though.
Model 3 - awesome below 50-60 mph. After that, felt like a boring v6 sedan. Handling was way better than model S but still not great. Corner exit was incredible.

Fun to drive - the model S is not fun unless you are flooring it. Anything else is boring as hell. The model 3 however is a riot. The low speed handling and acceleration of it pretty much make it the most fun I’ve ever had skooting around the streets of suburbia. It’s way more fun than a camaro in that aspect, like miata levels of fun. It’s what the car was built for. If this is what you do, model 3 performance all the way.

You want to rip some rural roads with high speed sweepers, the teslas suck. The camaro is soooooo much better for this.

Oh and before you say electric is no fun. You’re right, sort of. They are less fun than gas because of the noise and feel. But they are still a riot.

In comparison to the auto ss camaro I drove. I would put the fun aspect of the acceleration of the model 3 performance as equal to the camaro. Meaning the m3p does it in 3.2 and the camaro 4.0. So just knock about a second off the teslas 0-60 time if you want to know about how much fun it is compared to a gas car.

That's far from a fanboy. A fanboy would have an excuse for everything Tesla doesn't do well in. You just like the cars, and that's totally cool.

Also, just my opinion, but I like the Model S far more in terms of exterior appearance. Everything afterwards has been going downhill. Model 3 looks like a knockoff Porsche in the front.

Sent from toaster or something

[DaveC113]

A friend has a Model 3 Performance. It's been upgraded via software to do 0-60 in 2.9s now...

It's a 1-trick pony, but that trick is impressive and makes it great for city driving. Handling is only ok, nowhere close to the Camaro, especially my SLE. Acceleration falls off at highway speeds, it's still fast up to 70-80 though.

For many it's great but the suspension was a let-down, it's absolutely not a sports car. More like an electric Camry/Accord that can accelerate very quickly.

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Also, just my opinion, but I like the Model S far more in terms of exterior appearance. Everything afterwards has been going downhill. Model 3 looks like a knockoff Porsche in the front.

Sent from toaster or something

Yeah but when you get inside, the model S kinda sucks.

I drove the model S and then got in the model 3 right after.

The model S just has interior and feel to it that I would expect to see in a nice loaded honda accord, or maybe like in between an accord and acura tlx. I shit you not I thought the camaro interior had a higher quality feel to it.

The model 3, which had the white interior..........well as soon as I got in it, I was it was surreal, like I was in a movie about the future. What a cool interior.

This is not evident if you are just looking at photos of the interior. The model 3 interior was awesome.

That’s another thing about tesla vs camaro, the camaro feels like a block of granite and the teslas feel like chassis from 1999

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

A friend has a Model 3 Performance. It's been upgraded via software to do 0-60 in 2.9s now...

It's a 1-trick pony, but that trick is impressive and makes it great for city driving. Handling is only ok, nowhere close to the Camaro, especially my SLE. Acceleration falls off at highway speeds, it's still fast up to 70-80 though.

For many it's great but the suspension was a let-down, it's absolutely not a sports car. More like an electric Camry/Accord that can accelerate very quickly.

Yeah but lets give credit where credit is due, that acceleration is a freaking riot from a stop. The model S gets ruined by the weight, but the model 3 is very tossable.

The m3p is the most fun you can possibly have going to the grocery store when there are 10 stop signs, 5 red lights, and 10 90degree turns to get there. (Well the most fun in a car that’s not a caterham or ariel atom.
It is also the least fun you can possibly have carving up a mountain road with 100mph turms.

Hell electric cars and hybrids are only able to do what they do because of the brake regen. So stopping and starting a lot actually benefits electric and it’s the opposite for gas. Which means - if you live in a dense area, electric is incredible. Live in a rural area where the grocery store is 10 minutes down a 50mph road, you’d be crazy to get a tesla.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Yeah but lets give credit where credit is due, that acceleration is a freaking riot from a stop. The model S gets ruined by the weight, but the model 3 is very tossable.

The m3p is the most fun you can possibly have going to the grocery store when there are 10 stop signs, 5 red lights, and 10 90degree turns to get there. (Well the most fun in a car that’s not a caterham or ariel atom.
It is also the least fun you can possibly have carving up a mountain road with 100mph turms.

Hell electric cars and hybrids are only able to do what they do because of the brake regen. So stopping and starting a lot actually benefits electric and it’s the opposite for gas. Which means - if you live in a dense area, electric is incredible. Live in a rural area where the grocery store is 10 minutes down a 50mph road, you’d be crazy to get a tesla.

Yup, at an intersection you can floor it and be doing over 50 mph by the time you get across it!

What I don't get is the long range, or that people want a long range out of an electric. It makes the car much more expensive, much heavier and if you're buying the car for it's environmental cred, a big battery and massive multiple motors negates a lot of that advantage. IMO electrics are often worse for the environment especially if charged via fossil fuels, but let's not get into that!

For an electric car, I'd take a short-range Leaf over a Tesla all day, every day. I see their best applications as a city-car and I'd want it small, light, with good handling. Going 0-60 in 2.9s is just stupid for a car that's supposed to be environmentally friendly. The amount of motor and battery in a Tesla M3 could work for 3-4 smaller city cars.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Yup, at an intersection you can floor it and be doing over 50 mph by the time you get across it!

What I don't get is the long range, or that people want a long range out of an electric. It makes the car much more expensive, much heavier and if you're buying the car for it's environmental cred, a big battery and massive multiple motors negates a lot of that advantage. IMO electrics are often worse for the environment especially if charged via fossil fuels, but let's not get into that!

For an electric car, I'd take a short-range Leaf over a Tesla all day, every day. I see their best applications as a city-car and I'd want it small, light, with good handling. Going 0-60 in 2.9s is just stupid for a car that's supposed to be environmentally friendly. The amount of motor and battery in a Tesla M3 could work for 3-4 smaller city cars.

First person I have seen that shares my view of the conundrum of the Tesla. It's like the automotive embodiment of an oxymoron.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

A friend has a Model 3 Performance. It's been upgraded via software to do 0-60 in 2.9s now...

It's a 1-trick pony, but that trick is impressive and makes it great for city driving. Handling is only ok, nowhere close to the Camaro, especially my SLE. Acceleration falls off at highway speeds, it's still fast up to 70-80 though.

For many it's great but the suspension was a let-down, it's absolutely not a sports car. More like an electric Camry/Accord that can accelerate very quickly.

Tesla Model 3 was one of the 3 fastest cars at AutoX a few weeks ago, all within a second of each other. Others were GTR (brute force) and Cayman GTS (good balance of everything with super quick PDK).

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

A friend has a Model 3 Performance. It's been upgraded via software to do 0-60 in 2.9s now...

It's a 1-trick pony, but that trick is impressive and makes it great for city driving. Handling is only ok, nowhere close to the Camaro, especially my SLE. Acceleration falls off at highway speeds, it's still fast up to 70-80 though.

For many it's great but the suspension was a let-down, it's absolutely not a sports car. More like an electric Camry/Accord that can accelerate very quickly.

Basically, it's more muscle car than a muscle car.

Weird to think about.