[3.8TransAM]

Originally Posted by D.O.M.D1

https://content-static.detroitnews.c...2019/index.htm

thank god its officially over but, only 57% voting "yes" with out that it would of gone to shit and it could of lasted maybe until 2020(or whatever) and for a fact lordstown and Detroit-Hamtramck were not gonna go down with a fight(because they are ground zero of the negotiations) and it was unnecessary for GM to lose over $2 billion in lost revenue and 6 weeks in productivity also the production pushback of C8 corvette and other things that were directly and indirectly affected due to the strike

Thank God right, if only GM stepped up and gave them back some of the money they gave up to help the company they wouldn't have lost $2 billion in revenue now would they?

[Realist]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

Thank God right, if only GM stepped up and gave them back some of the money they gave up to help the company they wouldn't have lost $2 billion in revenue now would they?

What is the UAW and it’s members plan to address the underfunded pension liabilities GM has? Its only funded around 80% with a Stock Market near record highs. The UAW’s pension fund is $15 billion in the hole, toss in more losses with the next recession. So GM agrees to give theses employees more via union strike, no problem, they will just pay less into the pension fund. I don’t want to see GM put taxpayers in a similar bailout situation. I would hope you don’t want to see that either but its being setup again to repeat. Reminder, taxpayers lost $10 billion on GM from the bailout, not to mention the years and years they didn’t have to pay federal taxes from it.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

Thank God right, if only GM stepped up and gave them back some of the money they gave up to help the company they wouldn't have lost $2 billion in revenue now would they?

Maybe the reason why they had to take a cut is because they are crippling the company financially?

[3.8TransAM]

Originally Posted by Realist

What is the UAW and it’s members plan to address the underfunded pension liabilities GM has? Its only funded around 80% with a Stock Market near record highs. The UAW’s pension fund is $15 billion in the hole, toss in more losses with the next recession. So GM agrees to give theses employees more via union strike, no problem, they will just pay less into the pension fund. I don’t want to see GM put taxpayers in a similar bailout situation. I would hope you don’t want to see that either but its being setup again to repeat. Reminder, taxpayers lost $10 billion on GM from the bailout, not to mention the years and years they didn’t have to pay federal taxes from it.

Only money lost on the bailout was from the government too stupid to realize the stock would keep going up. Had they not sold out, they would have not lost the money.


Personally I trust no no union, company and sure as hell not the government to take care of me.


I won't admit GM does not have some blame, as do the unions, but if we go there we have to go all out and look at all the issues the government has caused along the way. Seems to me there is money to be paid for the shortfall or stock and therefore dividends to cover the gap.



What goes around comes around, treat your employees like shit and ask them to sacrifice and they will come looking for it later.


This goes back to look at all the foreign shitboxes on the road and in a parking lot. Thats just saying screw you to your neighbor, your schools and even where you work here. 3-1 job ratio for domestic to foreign cars bought. Follow the money trail.

[CoolbreezeNJ]

Folks need to be careful. Ford originally took a gov't load instead of waiting like FCA and GM did and then needed a bailout. As of now Ford is over $50B in debt and far, far worse off and reflected in the stock price.

The GM and FCA bailouts didn't hit the little guy they hit the big guy e.g. the bond holders who actually financed the company and were left with huge losses while the gov't tried to keep the employees and their pensions whole. Totally done for votes by Obama as it specifically went against the financial norms in this country.

My wife is a teacher and darned if we can figure out what the union does for her. It is really just socialism. Everybody gets a little raise regardless of productivity. Currently the school unions are pushing their democratic buddies to vote against charter schools so they keep their jobs. This happens more in depressed urban areas where there needs to be change as billions is poured into the depressed urban school districts w/o the students test scores rising. What a sham that money goes right into the teachers and administrators pocket w/o reprecussion.

As for pension,s and the same goes for social security these programs are essentially dead unless the money is invested and even then it is skeptical. Each of these programs relies on a "growing work force". Back when we created social security each two parents had 4 to 5 kids. Now it is probably less then two kids per pair of adults if you take the entire nation. How is that supposed to work. Same with pension if a company has less and less employees how does that get paid and that includes that private company penisons are typically invested. Imagine China where for years had a one child rule.

Long story short, this can't go on forever!!!!

[enzia35]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

Thank God right, if only GM stepped up and gave them back some of the money they gave up to help the company they wouldn't have lost $2 billion in revenue now would they?

Sounds like extortion to me.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

Only money lost on the bailout was from the government too stupid to realize the stock would keep going up. Had they not sold out, they would have not lost the money.


Personally I trust no no union, company and sure as hell not the government to take care of me.


I won't admit GM does not have some blame, as do the unions, but if we go there we have to go all out and look at all the issues the government has caused along the way. Seems to me there is money to be paid for the shortfall or stock and therefore dividends to cover the gap.



What goes around comes around, treat your employees like shit and ask them to sacrifice and they will come looking for it later.


This goes back to look at all the foreign shitboxes on the road and in a parking lot. Thats just saying screw you to your neighbor, your schools and even where you work here. 3-1 job ratio for domestic to foreign cars bought. Follow the money trail.

Just to point out, GM’s stock hasn’t gotten close to the price needed for the government to break even on the bailout and would still be waiting today....

[enzia35]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

This goes back to look at all the foreign shitboxes on the road and in a parking lot. Thats just saying screw you to your neighbor, your schools and even where you work here. 3-1 job ratio for domestic to foreign cars bought. Follow the money trail.

Weird, cuz BMW, Hyundai, Toyota, Honda all have plants in the US.
Unless they’re employing non Americans some how.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by enzia35

Weird, cuz BMW, Hyundai, Toyota, Honda all have plants in the US.
Unless they’re employing non Americans some how.

And Nissan, VW, Mazda and Subaru with Mercedes too.

Big but with this. Each of those plants came with years of 0 property taxes, millions for worker training. Sometimes free land to build that plant on and even assistance to build the plant. And the reason they are here? It's cheaper than putting a car on a boat. So if someone offers you basically a free plant and you can save $500 or more per car, they're all in on that deal.

Also, none of those are represented by the UAW.

[3.8TransAM]

Originally Posted by enzia35

Sounds like extortion to me.

Extortion? They agreed to to pay cuts to help the company. God forbid they wanted to see some of that returned since GM has had record profits.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Just to point out, GM’s stock hasn’t gotten close to the price needed for the government to break even on the bailout and would still be waiting today....

That would be a lie, the stock has been at prices where it would have been a wash.

Originally Posted by enzia35

Weird, cuz BMW, Hyundai, Toyota, Honda all have plants in the US.
Unless they’re employing non Americans some how.

You really don't know how things work and its showing. It's about the money flow, always follow the money flow. Domestic manufacturer car will benefit 3 Americans. Foreign manufacturer car will benefit 1 American. Where does the money go? Where it is designed? Where is the overhead? This is simple fact that can be found over and over again. Or carry on sending your money overseas.

Originally Posted by Number 3

And Nissan, VW, Mazda and Subaru with Mercedes too.

Big but with this. Each of those plants came with years of 0 property taxes, millions for worker training. Sometimes free land to build that plant on and even assistance to build the plant. And the reason they are here? It's cheaper than putting a car on a boat. So if someone offers you basically a free plant and you can save $500 or more per car, they're all in on that deal.

Also, none of those are represented by the UAW.

So where is the win? Below stand wages, check that box. No property taxes paid, check that box. Free land? Check that box. Oh wait, where does all the money still go? Over seas again

[ZarusSS]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

Extortion? They agreed to to pay cuts to help the company. God forbid they wanted to see some of that returned since GM has had record profits.





That would be a lie, the stock has been at prices where it would have been a wash.





You really don't know how things work and its showing. It's about the money flow, always follow the money flow. Domestic manufacturer car will benefit 3 Americans. Foreign manufacturer car will benefit 1 American. Where does the money go? Where it is designed? Where is the overhead? This is simple fact that can be found over and over again. Or carry on sending your money overseas.





So where is the win? Below stand wages, check that box. No property taxes paid, check that box. Free land? Check that box. Oh wait, where does all the money still go? Over seas again

[3.8TransAM]

Originally Posted by ZarusSS

Damn! Nice to see some backup in here!

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

Might be time to do a poll here with union vs. non union and income........

Do we really need to do a pole, it seems you’re the only union suck up on this tread

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

Extortion? They agreed to to pay cuts to help the company. God forbid they wanted to see some of that returned since GM has had record profits.





That would be a lie, the stock has been at prices where it would have been a wash.





You really don't know how things work and its showing. It's about the money flow, always follow the money flow. Domestic manufacturer car will benefit 3 Americans. Foreign manufacturer car will benefit 1 American. Where does the money go? Where it is designed? Where is the overhead? This is simple fact that can be found over and over again. Or carry on sending your money overseas.





So where is the win? Below stand wages, check that box. No property taxes paid, check that box. Free land? Check that box. Oh wait, where does all the money still go? Over seas again

At the treasuries post-IPO peak of shares owned, the price would have to be $53 for the government to break even. GM’s stock never got close to being that high( peak I have found was $45.88).

https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/11...-stock-market/

I’m not bashing the bailout and the $10 billion they lost is by far the better situation compared to letting GM go under during the Great Recession.