[germanicus]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I know, thus why Im looking at midsized Sedans over compacts and subcompacts even though many of them get high safety ratings. I don't believe a Suburban or a Tahoe is good for new driver for many other reason not counting that fact that she wants a car. Also, i can tell you from personal experiences being in several crashes that the larger car doesnt always win as far as injuries are concerned. You yourself should know that with your profession in this field. There are many determining factors on who gets hurt in a crash. I understand what you are driving at with your comment though and once again why Im looking to bigger cars. I really like the impala but she is afriad it will be too big.

He is incorrect. The heaviest does not always "win".

If "winning" is measured as surviving with the least damage to the person.
There are too many factors and design choices that influence how much energy is absorbed by crumple zones or otherwise redirected to areas other than the passenger. Numerous modern safety features and design aspects which are not equivalent between different models and brands comes to bear. They are not all equal. This differentiation can have just as much impact on survival.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

The first generation to start hearing the "you need to go to college" was almost certainly mine, there having been enough years gone by since the Depression (the 1930's one) and WWII for college to be a realistic choice for the children of blue-collar parents. Whether it was ever explicitly stated or not, I do know that college was expected of me even before I started high school (which would have been 9th grade in the Fall of 1961, so yeah, I'm getting old).

I honestly don't know what those who followed a liberal-arts curriculum in the latter half of the 1960's ended up doing, or how many of those folks jumped on the "gotta get my MBA" bandwagon a few years later.


On the matter of not everybody being cut out for college, that certainly applies to paths leading to 4-year degrees (let alone anything beyond that). But you probably do need some sort of education targeted at whatever career path you're at least going to start out with. This doesn't have to be all book-learning either, and is likely going to be better if it isn't. Hands-on experience does count . . . even for the 4-year degree people.


Norm

Maybe cut out wasn't the right phrase but I should have went with it's not for everyone. I have a 4 year degree, and I will tell you maybe 5 or 6 classes total out of all the classes I had to take have had an impact for me in my career. The rest was all BS. I have learned a hell of a lot more hands on than in the class room.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

You're right on the money. I am in the same "generation". But that mindless push started earlier than us. And it was started by Universities. Some fields rightfully require a full 4 plus years of study. That's when they got clever....why can't we "justify" the 1- and 2-year people to stay for four? Promise them higher wages, better qualifications. And that, eventually, led to a rush of fruitless degrees that sounded new, and hip on paper.

Finally, it really isn't a fair representation to say that some aren't "cut out" for college as the only reason not to go. (Hear me out)....as I mentioned earlier, some field and practices just. don't. need. it. There's very little that can compare to on-the-job training in some areas.

Agreed ^ Like I posted above, cut out probably wasn't the right word for it. Some careers need it, others don't. I could chat about this all day long

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Mazda 6 turbo! The only thing missing on that car is Apple Carplay and Android auto. If that was available I would have chosen the Mazda over the Accord Touring. The 6 is a cut rate BMW. I did rent a Chevy Malibu before buying the Accord Touring. It was very good but somehow was missing something. Maybe it was because the Honda was faster.

The other problem for the US cars is Hyundai and Kia. I see a ton of those where I live in economically depressed South Jersey. And with a little more development how about the Kia Stinger? I ran one at Atco a few weeks ago and it is a mid 12s car. I saw a 12.768@102.64 running with me and my friends said it ran 12.5 later. Pretty fast for a daily driver.

I take it you have driven a Mazda6 turbo? I wanted to go test drive one this weekend but went and saw the Avengers instead lol. I always thought the Mazda 6 was a good looking car, but thought it lacked power for the last few years. Now that they have the turbo option sounds like it could be a fun DD.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Maybe cut out wasn't the right phrase but I should have went with it's not for everyone. I have a 4 year degree, and I will tell you maybe 5 or 6 classes total out of all the classes I had to take have had an impact for me in my career. The rest was all BS. I have learned a hell of a lot more hands on than in the class room.

I have no problem with the terminology "being cut out or not cut out" for college. We all know people who for one reason or another struggled in the textbook-oriented classroom environment.

But on the matter of courses not directly aimed at your future profession, I think the intent is to get people to take a wider view of things, and there is value in that even though most people don't recognize this while they're going through it. Just learning how is useful.


Norm

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I have no problem with the terminology "being cut out or not cut out" for college. We all know people who for one reason or another struggled in the textbook-oriented classroom environment.

But on the matter of courses not directly aimed at your future profession, I think the intent is to get people to take a wider view of things, and there is value in that even though most people don't recognize this while they're going through it. Just learning how is useful.


Norm

I know I get that broaden your view of learning. I am going to step out of this conversation because I will totally derail it more than I already have hahaha

[Ottawaguy2018]

I'm not shocked. The Camaro is a better car, but what GM is doing with the refresh looks like crap. Plus Mustangs are cheaper, have more promotions for them and Ford actually has them on lots. GM doesn't usually.

[danhr]

The mustang pretty regularly outsells the camaro.

The camaro pretty regularly out performs the mustang

In case you can't figure that out.... performance numbers don't equal sales

And performance doesn't keep a model alive. Just look at the trans am, 03-09 camaro, viper, grand national, etc

[Blakout]

Originally Posted by shaffe

On the worthless degree part, I think what really amped that up was that people around my age( Millenials and I hate being lumped with them) when we were growing up all we ever heard was, you have to go to college, you have to go to college, you have to go to college. So we went and unfortunately to many picked useless degrees to pursue. I think education is important, but not everyone is cut out for college. Hell a few of my buddies who just went right to work out of high school are better off than a majority of my friends who went to college.

You literally took the words from my fingers. This. EXACTLY THIS.

I'm 29. He's totally right. Military for 4 years doing IT, then jumped out into civilian sector IT world. Best choice I ever made.

On topic: I was pretty surprised to see they even axed the Fusion. I see those all over the place out here in SoCal. It's a nice looking car!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by germanicus

He is incorrect. The heaviest does not always "win".

If "winning" is measured as surviving with the least damage to the person.
There are too many factors and design choices that influence how much energy is absorbed by crumple zones or otherwise redirected to areas other than the passenger. Numerous modern safety features and design aspects which are not equivalent between different models and brands comes to bear. They are not all equal. This differentiation can have just as much impact on survival.

Lol

All vehicles have the advantage of engineering to absorb energy, use of materials to develop structures, etc. However physics wins every time.

I’ve spent several years crashing cars and engineering structure and restraints.

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Lol

All vehicles have the advantage of engineering to absorb energy, use of materials to develop structures, etc. However physics wins every time.

I’ve spent several years crashing cars and engineering structure and restraints.

Yeah, a Smart car might be very safe but if you collide with a Hummer, the Hummer will have it's way with the smart car and push it where ever it wants.
Inertia rules the day.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Maybe cut out wasn't the right phrase but I should have went with it's not for everyone. I have a 4 year degree, and I will tell you maybe 5 or 6 classes total out of all the classes I had to take have had an impact for me in my career. The rest was all BS. I have learned a hell of a lot more hands on than in the class room.



Agreed ^ Like I posted above, cut out probably wasn't the right word for it. Some careers need it, others don't. I could chat about this all day long



I take it you have driven a Mazda6 turbo? I wanted to go test drive one this weekend but went and saw the Avengers instead lol. I always thought the Mazda 6 was a good looking car, but thought it lacked power for the last few years. Now that they have the turbo option sounds like it could be a fun DD.

Not the Turbo model, just an older 6. My conclusion was sold, if it had another 75-100 HP. It is the most sporty and best handling lower cost sedan. And it is very good looking with a high quality interior. I just saw a new one on the street last night. Not sure it was a Turbo. I would miss Android auto, but I rarely use it anyway and get by with the builtin nav.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Boost Creep

Yeah, a Smart car might be very safe but if you collide with a Hummer, the Hummer will have it's way with the smart car and push it where ever it wants.
Inertia rules the day.

A Smart car has nothing to do with Smart. Fuel mileage is only so-so and as a car it not very useful. And any full size truck would leave a stain on the road when tangling with a Smart. It is easy to park.

In some places in the world or in the inner city it works. But out on the open road along side 5,000 pound and up trucks, not so much.

[Fraxum]

The college equation is not so simple. Choosing the right major is important, but it is also possible to leverage most prestigious university degrees to your benefit long term.

First there is NO question on earning more money with a college degree. Estimates range from $1,000,000 in a lifetime to much more.

https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-repor...ollege-payoff/

Now of course keep in mind Georgetown is an expensive university. Did that affect those numbers? Hard to tell. But every study has shown very positive results.

Here is another:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...cord/96493348/

Also sadly, the numbers are lower for women, but college is still worthwhile.

However, the degree is not the full story. It also comes down to the individual. Some people never learn to play the career game and some just don't want to bother. And then there is if an individual is fit for college. It does not come down to how smart you are, unless you are challenged in some way, you CAN make it through most college programs. They are designed to keep you going so the money keeps flowing into the college. But if you are not willing to focus, work hard, and consistently then college is not for you. Of course having a little bit more of the un-measurable thing we call intelligence will make college easier for you. We are not all so lucky. But intelligence is not usually the major decider of success.

The other thing is the university you choose can make a huge difference in your lifetime earnings. For one thing the top level universities have country wide networks to help attendees get the right job and promotions and also help in other ways. It's the old it takes a village thing. For another thing in the right university you meet the right people yourself to help you in the future. And of course you help them. Understand in the more elite levels of our society it is a club. It is not fair, but it is what it is. You are either in or out. College can help put you in the right club.

So my advice to youngsters starting out is go for the big time universities and if you get in choose your major wisely, hopefully something you are interested in, and network with your fellow students. The $250,000-$350,000 you invest will pay off if you make it happen. But paying that much for a good mid-level college or university will be much harder to recoup.

Instead go to community college and work your butt off. Then transfer to your best state college and commute from home if you can and continue to work your butt off. You can still get a great education this way at less than one third of the high-brow route. Then plan your future to make it pay off. It will with hard work and a little luck.

But always remember this: Work to live, do not live to work.

Back on topic!

And to follow that last piece of advice remember along the way to buy a 2019+ Camaro. It will add to the fun factor in your life. You can afford it.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I guess I'll never be able to understand how the lack of features such as those can represent absolute deal-breakers, even though I've seen it happen in the list of cars my daughter and son-in-law won't consider.

Faster/more responsive is easy to understand.

Norm

You are right on, not a deal beaker in and of itself, but a disappointment. My wife and I both use the newer sedan and the phone Apps like Waze and Audible are better than anything that comes with the car. And you never have to pay for a GPS update.

I probably would have bought the Mazda turbo over the Honda, but it was not available then. However getting $6,500 off sticker on the dealer demo Honda Touring probably would have won me over.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

The college equation is not so simple. Choosing the right major is important, but it is also possible to leverage most prestigious university degrees to your benefit long term.

First there is NO question on earning more money with a college degree. Estimates range from $1,000,000 in a lifetime to much more.

https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-repor...ollege-payoff/

Now of course keep in mind Georgetown is an expensive university. Did that affect those numbers? Hard to tell. But every study has shown very positive results.

Here is another:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...cord/96493348/

Also sadly, the numbers are lower for women, but college is still worthwhile.

However, the degree is not the full story. It also comes down to the individual. Some people never learn to play the career game and some just don't want to bother. And then there is if an individual is fit for college. It does not come down to how smart you are, unless you are challenged in some way, you CAN make it through most college programs. They are designed to keep you going so the money keeps flowing into the college. But if you are not willing to focus, work hard, and consistently then college is not for you. Of course having a little bit more of the un-measurable thing we call intelligence will make college easier for you. We are not all so lucky. But intelligence is not usually the major decider of success.

The other thing is the university you choose can make a huge difference in your lifetime earnings. For one thing the top level universities have country wide networks to help attendees get the right job and promotions and also help in other ways. It's the old it takes a village thing. For another thing in the right university you meet the right people yourself to help you in the future. And of course you help them. Understand in the more elite levels of our society it is a club. It is not fair, but it is what it is. You are either in or out. College can help put you in the right club.

So my advice to youngsters starting out is go for the big time universities and if you get in choose your major wisely, hopefully something you are interested in, and network with your fellow students. The $250,000-$350,000 you invest will pay off if you make it happen. But paying that much for a good mid-level college or university will be much harder to recoup.

Instead go to community college and work your butt off. Then transfer to your best state college and commute from home if you can and continue to work your butt off. You can still get a great education this way at less than one third of the high-brow route. Then plan your future to make it pay off. It will with hard work and a little luck.

But always remember this: Work to live, do not live to work.

Back on topic!

And to follow that last piece of advice remember along the way to buy a 2019+ Camaro. It will add to the fun factor in your life. You can afford it.

That is some great advice there.