[tmalaquin]

Hello all,

I have experienced brake fade during my last track day, pedal got spongy in mid session.

Weather was quite hot (around 90F) but track was moderately heavy on brakes (Thill west - 2 miles), ran with Sport 1 PTM mode which does activate brakes for stability control.

A few details:
-3rd track day on race pads (hawk DTC 70), still plenty of life left.
-Pads did not fade during my last 2 track days at Laguna Seca.
-Using OEM rotors (end of life). No Titanium Shims.
- Bled the brakes in June with Motul RBF 600 when installed the Pads.
-Running with Goodyear SCR tires

I am curious to know if anyone has experienced brake fade with DTC 70 pads ? I thought they were bulletproof ...
I believe it's a brake fade and not fluid boil because I still had some stopping power, but very limited.

Thanks in advance for your feedback,
Cheers
TM

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by tmalaquin

Hello all,

I have experienced brake fade during my last track day, pedal got spongy in mid session.

Weather was quite hot (around 90F) but track was moderately heavy on brakes (Thill west - 2 miles), ran with Sport 1 PTM mode which does activate brakes for stability control.

A few details:
-3rd track day on race pads (hawk DTC 70), still plenty of life left.
-Pads did not fade during my last 2 track days at Laguna Seca.
-Using OEM rotors (end of life). No Titanium Shims.
- Bled the brakes in June with Motul RBF 600 when installed the Pads.
-Running with Goodyear SCR tires

I am curious to know if anyone has experienced brake fade with DTC 70 pads ? I thought they were bulletproof ...
I believe it's a brake fade and not fluid boil because I still had some stopping power, but very limited.

Thanks in advance for your feedback,
Cheers
TM

You have to consider more than just the pad when it comes to "fade". You have to look at the whole system:
-How much heat can the pads take?
-How much heat can the rotors take?
-How much heat can the brake fluid take?
-How good is your brake cooling?

The problem here is likely NOT the amount of heat the DTC pads can take, per-say; rather how much heat those pads are putting into the system and how well the rest of your brake system can deal with the heat.

[Timbo-1LE]

No, I have them front and back. They haul it down from 161 at Daytona.

[pbsinternet1le]

Originally Posted by Timbo-1LE

No, I have them front and back. They haul it down from 161 at Daytona.

Are you using the track air deflector kit on the front? It helps..

[carguy55]

I've use the Hawks 70s and now 60s without any issues in the Texas heat at COTA and other tracks. I use SRF, SS track cooling kit and Ti shims. I've heard too many scary stories about race pads and RF600 to ever consider using it.

[Timbo-1LE]

Good point,
Carguy55, I have the titanium shims in the front....

Forgot that...

[Junkyardspecial]

Try a better fluid while you are at it, Motul doesnt have the durability and has a high compressibility which will lead to a softer pedal faster. Upgrading lines doesn't hurt either.

[tmalaquin]

Originally Posted by Mountain

You have to consider more than just the pad when it comes to "fade". You have to look at the whole system:
-How much heat can the pads take?
-How much heat can the rotors take?
-How much heat can the brake fluid take?
-How good is your brake cooling?

The problem here is likely NOT the amount of heat the DTC pads can take, per-say; rather how much heat those pads are putting into the system and how well the rest of your brake system can deal with the heat.

Appreciate your input, unfortunately I dont have the heat info, I would need to install some thermocouples. The whole brake system is OE (SS 1LE) except fluid and Pads. Looks like the RTF 600 is not a good match with race pads per other member's experience, I will start by upgrading it.

[tmalaquin]

Looks like SRF and possibly Ti shims seems to help for the pedal feel.
I would think that the Ti shims would make the temperature worse for the pads, but better for the fluid.
I did not consider the SS brake ducts yet, I thought the 1LE vents from the bumper to the wheel arch would be enough.. maybe not for the heat generated by race pads...

[NEZL1]

Funny because I boiled motul 660 on my lotus and everyone spoke highly of it. Had complete brake failure, added stainless steel pistons to replace the aluminum caliper pistons and changed to srf and never had an issue again

[driven2exceSS]

Originally Posted by tmalaquin

I have experienced brake fade during my last track day, pedal got spongy in mid session.

A few details:
-3rd track day on race pads (hawk DTC 70), still plenty of life left.
-Pads did not fade during my last 2 track days at Laguna Seca.
-Using OEM rotors (end of life). No Titanium Shims.
- Bled the brakes in June with Motul RBF 600 when installed the Pads.
-Running with Goodyear SCR tires

I have run 4 piston SS calipers w/ DCT 70's F&R until my last event, most of which was with RBF600 in the lines, without incident.
HOWEVER, this might be your issue... You should do a maintenance bleed when using RBF after each event (track day or weekend) to flush out the caliper. With what you are considering to change to, and add to your set-up, going forward you should be in good shape regardless!

[Timbo-1LE]

Just normal ducting which comes with 1LE. Note, I do bleed every other event to just purge the fluid close to calipers. Not sure if matters, but I do clean the calipers very well after every event, put griots speed shine on the outside, meaning, they clean up with simple hose off and drive. Dirt prevents heat escaping is what I have been told. Also I'm a late braker, so hard on them, but not on them long... For what it is worth.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by tmalaquin

Hello all,

I have experienced brake fade during my last track day, pedal got spongy in mid session.

Weather was quite hot (around 90F) but track was moderately heavy on brakes (Thill west - 2 miles), ran with Sport 1 PTM mode which does activate brakes for stability control.

A few details:
-3rd track day on race pads (hawk DTC 70), still plenty of life left.
-Pads did not fade during my last 2 track days at Laguna Seca.
-Using OEM rotors (end of life). No Titanium Shims.
- Bled the brakes in June with Motul RBF 600 when installed the Pads.
-Running with Goodyear SCR tires

I am curious to know if anyone has experienced brake fade with DTC 70 pads ? I thought they were bulletproof ...
I believe it's a brake fade and not fluid boil because I still had some stopping power, but very limited.

Thanks in advance for your feedback,
Cheers
TM

Fluid is starting to boil vs pads fading if the pedal gets soft, or long. Pad fade will give ya hard pedal but reduced stopping power.

70s are a very high torque pads, so they will throw tons of heat on all components. Upgrade to SRF. Ive also had good results with Willwood EXP. OTOH, ive read folks having "moments" running RBF and some data posted in other threads suggests other fluids may be better suited here (as mentioned above).

Another approach is to run pads with less torque. I use stock Ferodos and have zero issues outbraking 99% of cars i run against, incl club level race cars on slicks. NB Even dropping to DTC60s would make a difference. Something to consider.

Good luck and cheers!

[funked1]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Another approach is to run pads with less torque. I use stock Ferodos and have zero issues outbraking 99% of cars i run against, incl club level race cars on slicks.

This is the best answer. Stickier-than-stock tires can cause the same problems too.