[Number 3]

First OP, as an engineer I have great concerns you want to shoot an engineer for implementing an e park brake.

Second, I have both moved a manual transmission car like you tried and I have also push started a manual as others have discussed.

Neither of these are REGULAR or expected uses by a customer. I wouldn’t have an engineer create a unique design for manual transmission vehicles nor would I compromise the improved packaging space on all vehicles to satisfy non-normal use situations.

Like it or not others have posted the rationale for e park brakes. And sadly, as more and more people buy automatics, creating a solution that satisfies a few at the expense of most doesn’t make much sense either.

And doing J turns in the snow? A big no on that as well.

So there is he engineers answer, just don’t shoot me for it.

[supercab78]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Maybe it is time for a garage change, it has been like that for 15 years. Give it a refresh.

If he is like me, You can't change things in a garage after 15 years because I'd forget wear I moved it to. When I move something I usually go look for it in the original stop first.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First OP, as an engineer I have great concerns you want to shoot an engineer for implementing an e park brake.

Second, I have both moved a manual transmission car like you tried and I have also push started a manual as others have discussed.

Neither of these are REGULAR or expected uses by a customer. I wouldn’t have an engineer create a unique design for manual transmission vehicles nor would I compromise the improved packaging space on all vehicles to satisfy non-normal use situations.

Like it or not others have posted the rationale for e park brakes. And sadly, as more and more people buy automatics, creating a solution that satisfies a few at the expense of most doesn’t make much sense either.

And doing J turns in the snow? A big no on that as well.

So there is he engineers answer, just don’t shoot me for it.

Mechanics spend more time fixing engineers f'd up designs than you think. You laugh at us while we cuss you out but it's true. Don't be so proud of yourself and your pals with all your degrees. Plenty of mechanics - who are the REAL car guys - would take a wrench to your cranium if they could while in the middle of fixing some really f'd up stuff. But that's on all cars, so don't feel like I'm singling you out specifically. You're just part of it.

Just because YOU don't think clutch starting a car or pushing it a few feet without starting it aren't "expected" uses by a customer doesn't mean they in fact aren't. Maybe you need to start simply talking to real people who actually learn about cars in a garage - you know, that thing where cars exist in the real world - instead of whatever they teach you in college.

We need more people like Henry Yunick in top levels with final say of engineering and design at car companies and fewer people like those who exist now.

But in all seriousness, the mechanical parking brake should have never been replaced. It's a BAD idea. For safety and reliability, there needs to be some form of completely analog control for a human to have over a car even if everything electronic completely fails.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by supercab78

If he is like me, You can't change things in a garage after 15 years because I'd forget wear I moved it to. When I move something I usually go look for it in the original stop first.

Exactly. I'm a creature of habit. If even one thing is moved an inch from where it belongs that can throw my whole day off.

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First OP, as an engineer I have great concerns you want to shoot an engineer for implementing an e park brake.

Second, I have both moved a manual transmission car like you tried and I have also push started a manual as others have discussed.

Neither of these are REGULAR or expected uses by a customer. I wouldn’t have an engineer create a unique design for manual transmission vehicles nor would I compromise the improved packaging space on all vehicles to satisfy non-normal use situations.

Like it or not others have posted the rationale for e park brakes. And sadly, as more and more people buy automatics, creating a solution that satisfies a few at the expense of most doesn’t make much sense either.

And doing J turns in the snow? A big no on that as well.

So there is he engineers answer, just don’t shoot me for it.

Well said.

[Paintslinger16]

Originally Posted by Racerman27410

You cannot bump start a modern direct injection car with a dead battery.... The days of that move are long gone. If the battery is dead the fuel pump cant run and build high pressure in the fuel rail. The computer that tells the injectors when to open and the the coils when to fire the plugs depend on the battery to function also...... heck you can't hardly even get the dang door open with a dead battery and forget about closing it once it is open DAMHIK but if you dont drive your camaro daily then i highly recommend a quality battery tender.

Yep, I was reading this and I was like wait modern FI cars don’t work like that any more, not only do you need to energize all the systems, since you only push a button and not actually use a key a dead battery makes the whole car dead.

I work with government surplus and the old manual Deuces you could pull start them, the newer Stewart Stevenson with electronic trans, not at all, if the rig is dead, it might even be in gear, you just cant tell sine the trans is also controlled with buttons

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Paintslinger16

Yep, I was reading this and I was like wait modern FI cars don’t work like that any more, not only do you need to energize all the systems, since you only push a button and not actually use a key a dead battery makes the whole car dead.

I work with government surplus and the old manual Deuces you could pull start them, the newer Stewart Stevenson with electronic trans, not at all, if the rig is dead, it might even be in gear, you just cant tell sine the trans is also controlled with buttons

I would ask then, when you engage the clutch and force the engine to turn, isn't the alternator turning as well? If it is, it's sending 12 volts to everything that requires power - at least, while the engine is turning. If you push the button while the car is rolling and the 12 volts is being applied would that not also energize the high pressure fuel pump and direct fuel injection?

Also, you're talking about an electronic transmission on that Stewart Stevenson. With the manual transmission I'm talking about, it's still the same old clutch pressed against the flywheel design that's been on every car since the beginning of time. If you push my car down a hill in neutral, then clutch in and put it in first then release the clutch, the engine will most certainly turn over.

[nancygrl]

I've used the garage to park any of my Camaros too and I don't ever set the e-brake, don't see a need to as it's not going to roll anywhere. Also solves the problem of popping it out of gear to temporarily move it and move it back and not need to grab the fob to release the e-brake. I agree it's a lousy design but it is what it is.

[Paintslinger16]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

I would ask then, when you engage the clutch and force the engine to turn, isn't the alternator turning as well? If it is, it's sending 12 volts to everything that requires power - at least, while the engine is turning. If you push the button while the car is rolling and the 12 volts is being applied would that not also energize the high pressure fuel pump and direct fuel injection?

Also, you're talking about an electronic transmission on that Stewart Stevenson. With the manual transmission I'm talking about, it's still the same old clutch pressed against the flywheel design that's been on every car since the beginning of time. If you push my car down a hill in neutral, then clutch in and put it in first then release the clutch, the engine will most certainly turn over.

I was just stating the improvements on something’s like the electronic trans takes away something on the other end.
Without power you can’t even get it in neutral or know that it is.

On pretty much anything now, the first button push, runs a quick diagnostic check when the gauges sweep and also primes the pumps, not going to say nothing starts ever, but it’s inherently more difficult

[Pupilbone]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First OP, as an engineer I have great concerns you want to shoot an engineer for implementing an e park brake.

Second, I have both moved a manual transmission car like you tried and I have also push started a manual as others have discussed.

Neither of these are REGULAR or expected uses by a customer. I wouldn’t have an engineer create a unique design for manual transmission vehicles nor would I compromise the improved packaging space on all vehicles to satisfy non-normal use situations.

Like it or not others have posted the rationale for e park brakes. And sadly, as more and more people buy automatics, creating a solution that satisfies a few at the expense of most doesn’t make much sense either.

And doing J turns in the snow? A big no on that as well.

So there is he engineers answer, just don’t shoot me for it.

The ebrake slide in the snow comment was a joke... but I appreciate the stern warning.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Exactly. I'm a creature of habit. If even one thing is moved an inch from where it belongs that can throw my whole day off.

It appears the E-brake threw off an entire week.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

the $1,000,000 question...

Did you relocate the gas can now?

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

It appears the E-brake threw off an entire week.

I created a rant other members have told me to stifle it and deal with it that’s turned into at least 3 pages.

I’ll be spending my free time this week looking at the parking brake circuit in the Helms and figuring out how to override it.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Azerlazer26

I’m definitely in the minority who actually prefers the electronic brake over the manual. Aesthetically it looks a lot cleaner and as somebody else mentioned, having that wee bit more interior space is nice to have.

Goes to show that there are no absolutes when it comes to appearance / aesthetics.

Personally I want my car's interior to look like a performance car's interior where all of the controls and gauges are obvious. What I don't want is an interior that prioritizes a luxury interpretation of 'pretty' over function.


We had an e-Pbrake in the 2010 Legacy 2.5GT (6-speed manual transmission) we had. Hated it, especially the part where once you set it, I had to buckle the driver's seat belt in order to release it even if all I was using it for was to allow idling the engine in the driveway and I needed to get out of the car for some reason.

I used it as infrequently as possible.


Norm

[gtfoxy]

I, also, didn’t like the dea of an electronic brake, but I rarely use it.

Either way, gas can relocation aside, here’s your solution.