[V8 Firebird]

Originally Posted by Puddin

Looks like Dodge is ready. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/26/...scle-cars.html

Meanwhile, real Mustang will become BEV only pony car after 2028.

Yea, no reason 7gen Camaro not going EV.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by V8 Firebird

Meanwhile, real Mustang will become BEV only pony car after 2028.

Yea, no reason 7gen Camaro not going EV.

Yep and the Camaro (if) will be years behind. Although, with GM "going all in on EV" I suspect they are working on an EV "performance car"

[puppykat33]

The problem with agendas pushed like this is the people pushing them rarely ever consider the 2nd 3rd 4th order long term consequences of them. So lets take California's no gas engines by 2025 and play a game. 1st order effect= all gas engine producers/manufactures in the state will half to close or convert resulting a loss of jobs, Gas engine aftermarket parts industries again loss of jobs. 2nd = gas stations will now half to convert to charging stations/gas stations in turn the price goes up of they simply close because they cant afford to keep up again loss of jobs. 3rd=price/cost for truckers delivering goods to the state will go up due to increased fuel cost in the state so now the price of everything goes up. 4th California already has an unstable power grid which cannot keep up with current demand at times so where are they going to find all the extra power so ppl can charge their cars at night? 5th since we have established the 1000% increase in demand for power where will it come from? are they going to build a nuclear plant? Hydro? ??? ALL of which defeat the clean green power initiate which they are trying to accomplish. not to mention how toxic lithium production is

Its always the same with these people, they never think of the outcome of decisions just oh wow that sounds nice.
Its like the FREE stuff the government offers it always sounds good to the liberal bleeding heart ie free health care, free college, free whatever if you oppose it, it makes you seem like a monster but if you actuality think about it and consider the consequences of the FREE proposal then you would understand that with this FREE stuff comes increased taxes, as the government gets its most of its money from TAXES. Which if you pay zero taxes then you don't care, and free stuff sounds great but. For the people who actually work and pay taxes with the understand that NOTHING IS FREE it cost someone. SO in closing THINK consider long term consequences

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

As for electric "sports cars" yes the weight will go up but because of the CG they can still handle very well vs a traditional engine car of same weight

An EV will generally corner somewhat flatter than an ICE-powered car of comparable weight and maybe even as flat as a lighter car with performance-oriented suspension tuning. But that's not necessarily the same thing as 'good handling'. In either the EV or heavy ICE car case I think you'd describe the handling using words like 'heavy', and 'not very nimble'. IOW, getting it to run the numbers doesn't mean that it'll be happy enough about running them to make you want to go there.


Norm

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

An EV will generally corner somewhat flatter than an ICE-powered car of comparable weight and maybe even as flat as a lighter car with performance-oriented suspension tuning. But that's not necessarily the same thing as 'good handling'. In either the EV or heavy ICE car case I think you'd describe the handling using words like 'heavy', and 'not very nimble'. IOW, getting it to run the numbers doesn't mean that it'll be happy enough about running them to make you want to go there.


Norm

This.

And if you think the Camaro's bulk eats tires now, just wait.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by puppykat33

The problem with agendas pushed like this is the people pushing them rarely ever consider the 2nd 3rd 4th order long term consequences of them. So lets take California's no gas engines by 2025 and play a game. 1st order effect= all gas engine producers/manufactures in the state will half to close or convert resulting a loss of jobs, Gas engine aftermarket parts industries again loss of jobs. 2nd = gas stations will now half to convert to charging stations/gas stations in turn the price goes up of they simply close because they cant afford to keep up again loss of jobs. 3rd=price/cost for truckers delivering goods to the state will go up due to increased fuel cost in the state so now the price of everything goes up. 4th California already has an unstable power grid which cannot keep up with current demand at times so where are they going to find all the extra power so ppl can charge their cars at night? 5th since we have established the 1000% increase in demand for power where will it come from? are they going to build a nuclear plant? Hydro? ??? ALL of which defeat the clean green power initiate which they are trying to accomplish. not to mention how toxic lithium production is

Its always the same with these people, they never think of the outcome of decisions just oh wow that sounds nice.
Its like the FREE stuff the government offers it always sounds good to the liberal bleeding heart ie free health care, free college, free whatever if you oppose it, it makes you seem like a monster but if you actuality think about it and consider the consequences of the FREE proposal then you would understand that with this FREE stuff comes increased taxes, as the government gets its most of its money from TAXES. Which if you pay zero taxes then you don't care, and free stuff sounds great but. For the people who actually work and pay taxes with the understand that NOTHING IS FREE it cost someone. SO in closing THINK consider long term consequences

Sorry but this reminds me of the conversation when home refrigeration killed the ice delivery business.

All reasonable points looking rearward. Looking forward will resolve all of your concerns. The only one that needs addressing is the power fortis issues, but as most EVs will be charging off hours even that may not be an issue.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

An EV will generally corner somewhat flatter than an ICE-powered car of comparable weight and maybe even as flat as a lighter car with performance-oriented suspension tuning. But that's not necessarily the same thing as 'good handling'. In either the EV or heavy ICE car case I think you'd describe the handling using words like 'heavy', and 'not very nimble'. IOW, getting it to run the numbers doesn't mean that it'll be happy enough about running them to make you want to go there.


Norm

The fastest/first one to cross the finish line wins.


i like my 6speed dino car and have no desire for a EV but as soon as they really start into the low CG they will be very fast around tracks.

[FarmerFran]

Clearly people fear change. Been that way since the dawn of time. Yet here we are

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry but this reminds me of the conversation when home refrigeration killed the ice delivery business.

Didn't home refrigeration happen after adequate electrical infrastructure was already in place? In this respect, any push to put everybody into EVs is very much a cart-before-the-horse kind of plan.

All reasonable points looking rearward. Looking forward will resolve all of your concerns. The only one that needs addressing is the power fortis issues, but as most EVs will be charging off hours even that may not be an issue.

Even that's a bit of hand-waving. Saying that's how it should work doesn't guarantee that it will actually work out that way. There's still the non-trivial matters of non-homeowners, homeowners without a usable garage, and homeowners with more than one EV that needs recharging. Anybody you know going to be willing to get up in the wee small hours on a regular basis to swap the recharging cord from one car to another? Or run two separate chargers (guessing they'd each take their own 50A circuit)?


Norm

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Didn't home refrigeration happen after adequate electrical infrastructure was already in place? In this respect, any push to put everybody into EVs is very much a cart-before-the-horse kind of plan.



Even that's a bit of hand-waving. Saying that's how it should work doesn't guarantee that it will actually work out that way. There's still the non-trivial matters of non-homeowners, homeowners without a usable garage, and homeowners with more than one EV that needs recharging. Anybody you know going to be willing to get up in the wee small hours on a regular basis to swap the recharging cord from one car to another? Or run two separate chargers (guessing they'd each take their own 50A circuit)?


Norm

Auto switching charger.


But i agree, if you see my earlier post about adding chargers to the home.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Clearly people fear change. Been that way since the dawn of time. Yet here we are

You apparently claim all change is good simply by virtue of being a change. Not so, as history's cyclic nature proves with giant resets marking the end of each civilization.

When society is going down a dead-end street, those clamoring to turn around are actually the most progressive.

Needless to say, there is some psychological truth to your statement about the fear of change, it is indeed a (much smaller, yet undeniable) problem, but it's not the one discussed here.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

You apparently claim all change is good simply by virtue of being a change. Not so, as history's cyclic nature proves with giant resets marking the end of each civilization.

When society is going down a dead-end street, those clamoring to turn around are actually the most progressive.

Needless to say, there is some psychological truth to your statement about the fear of change, it is indeed a (much smaller, yet undeniable) problem, but it's not the one discussed here.

Nope. Said people fear change. Yet here we are, even if we had bad shit happen.


People are fearing EV cars. Noone on either sid of the argument knows what is going to happen and both side have valid claims

[puppykat33]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry but this reminds me of the conversation when home refrigeration killed the ice delivery business.

All reasonable points looking rearward. Looking forward will resolve all of your concerns. The only one that needs addressing is the power fortis issues, but as most EVs will be charging off hours even that may not be an issue.

Ice machines and ice delivery are a single issue result only affecting one thing, not a good comparison/ justification.

The no gas cars by 2025 that California is pushing has so many far reaching and multi tiered effects that no one is considering is my point. It is not going to just affect one thing, it is going to change and affect multitudes of things that will negate the initiative. For example the amount of energy required to properly dispose of lithium far outweighs its usefulness not to mention the toxic gases it produces which is in turn is no better for the environment than gas engines.

Plus I'm not ok with multiple industries going out of business and people being put out of a job just for the sake of fake change, that will not accomplish the goal they set out to accomplish in the first place. Its not going to help anything but it will definitely make things worse. Maybe its just me, and i am just not thinking progressively enough for my logical little brain to understand that way of thinking...

[Hops]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

The fastest/first one to cross the finish line wins.


i like my 6speed dino car and have no desire for a EV but as soon as they really start into the low CG they will be very fast around tracks.

Yes they will be fast around the track, but how many times? Doing a 4 session track track day + taking 1 or 2 hours just to get to and from the track presently involves a lot of charging with something like the tesla 3 performance. Not to mention the track mode adjusts the available power to save the battery from overheating after a few laps. Not saying these aren't solvable problems, i think it will take a few years.