[mlee]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Things just got very interesting. It looks like GM added the A10 trans as an available option on the ZLE!!!

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...L3SFBXVATu8IUM

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/20...3SVu-bJSdeLn7Y

That pisses me off so bad on a personal level. My struggles have always been A10 vs 1LE.

Time for a trade-in.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by rocket403

All this talk about the Camaro and Mustang and what is better what the sales show us, what I see is that no matter what the profit margins are on both cars the sales are down across the board for both of these cars. I can't imagine that GM is happy with the position they find themselves in being at the bottom of the muscle car segment, after putting all this R&D into this platform and it looks like the sales will not be better next year. The same for the Mustang it is leading the Sales race but is down huge from past sales numbers. Both of these cars are being shown that a 10 year old platform that long ago paid for itself with minor tweaks can sell and sell well, Ford and GM are being schooled by Dodge, on what maters to the general public, and they are not afraid to market the car with an in your face attitude. The fastest car on a track with the best handling is the lowest seller funny guess that means not much.

Dodge started seeing spikes in sales when they announced the Hellcat, then again with the introduction of the Demon, and again with the Redeye. Now we're seeing them drastically lower the price to get into a 717 HP Hellcat...I think they're down to what you'll pay for a fully loaded GT or SS. And although they do not handle well at all, they are very roomy. On top of Dodge's aggressive advertising campaign. Whenever they advertise a high HP trim, the lower trim levels start to sell more. It gets people looking at them and wanting to be a part of the excitement even if they don't buy that particular trim.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Things just got very interesting. It looks like GM added the A10 trans as an available option on the ZLE!!!

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...L3SFBXVATu8IUM

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/20...3SVu-bJSdeLn7Y

I bet they were just waiting for the GT500 announcement to put this out....

I love a manual transmission, but there's no question that a modern self-shifter is faster around a track.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The reviewed number for the GT is 11:80s, please find me a reviewed time for the SS within 3-tenths of this time, I'll be waiting. And no I don't care about hero times posted by members where we don't know if the car was 100% stock or not.

If that's the hot rod review you're talking about they did that at a drag strip unlike most other publications which do it on regular tarmac. No major publication has gotten that or anything more than a tenth or two faster than an SS a8.

That seems faster than anything on the stock mustang fast list, maybe that's the hero run. Even faster than some publications got on drag radials and way faster than any other major publications stock test runs.

Road and track got 3.9 to 60 and 12.2 quarter mile on a manual SS. Any manual mustang gt review is almost always 2 to 4 tenths slower than a manual SS consistently. A regular SS vs a non performance pack gt, the SS is faster. A performance pack gt a10 is slightly faster than the a8/10 SS by a tenth or two. Not to mention that's just straight line speed, a Camaro SS is unarguably faster around a track than a mustang GT. The pp2 can hang with the 1le for a lap then it's over. If we're talking top speed, the Camaro wins that too.

The mustang is hardly the faster car.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by mlee

That pisses me off so bad on a personal level. My struggles have always been A10 vs 1LE.

Time for a trade-in.

Yea dude. Well for me it wasn't a debate at all. It was A10 or nothin. Even with the A10 I'd seriously have to talk myself into getting one knowing there is no sunroof option. So I don't think I'll be getting one.

But what it does show is that maybe now GM is starting to listen to the public. They gave us a BS reason why they didn't put the A10 in the ZLE in the first place. It was complete BS. So the GT500 showing up with a 7sp auto must have gotten them off their ass. So with that...maybe...if they're really listening...just maybe...we just might see the LT5 get dropped into the ZL1 for it's last 2 years!!! Maybe!!! If the A10 ZLE does sell well, then maybe they'll see that if they offer more options, then people WILL buy that particular option. Or maybe they'll build a Z28 with the A10 and the LT5. That whole manual trans only in the Z28 can be thrown out the window now. Because it looks like things are becoming anything goes no-holds-barred!!!

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

In the Car and Driver test the GT A10 trapped 120 mph and did 0-60 in 3.8 seconds. Anyway, it's been documented many times that the A10 GT can get into the upper 11s fully stock. Upper 11s in the A10 GT is not some one time wonder.

I'm still blown away at how fast both cars (SS and GT) have become. 20 years ago the trap speeds and times the GT A10 is putting out were supercar and Viper GTS territory. Crazy. Good times to be a pony car owner.

It is crazy, we're splitting hairs over here but both of these cars have gotten crazy fast and matching or beating super cars from the not too distant past. Cars that can be had in their base v8 forms for very reasonable prices.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Should we compare the manual numbers for the present ZL1 (and ignore the A10) to the last 13/14 GT500 as well? If so the present ZL1 is a failure as the last GT500 is faster. You compare the fastest version of the car, which is the A8 and A10.

Sure. Lets compare. 13/14 GT500...lighter weight, more HP, solid axle, no TM programmed into it, M6, runs 11.5. ZL1 M6, heavier, IRS, less HP, crazy TM programmed into it, runs 11.8. Now if we put both on the track, which one would smoke which?

[hotlap]

You Mustang guys suck ...at math

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

2500 sales a month uquals oh sh!t we could be in trouble.

Camaro volume for 2018 was 50,963
50,963/12 = 4,247

Originally Posted by newmoon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please describe your Failed with the S550 statement? It has sold almost 3x as many Mustangs as Camaros.

Alpha and S550 have competed 2016, 2017 and 2018. Volume was

Camaro = 72705+67940+50963 = 191,608
Mustang = 105932+81866+75842 = 263,640

263,640/191,608 = 1.38 to 1

And what is it with ---------------------- and Bold? Some need to be "special"? Save it for mama.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by mlee

That pisses me off so bad on a personal level. My struggles have always been A10 vs 1LE.

Time for a trade-in.

I thought the 1LE WOULD come with the A10. I autoX some, and because of my age the manual is just too much for me to handle. As I said 30 post ago because of the autoshift the GT 500 goes in for the win.. it is the future. I'll still hold on to my M6 for as long as I can still shift... but even there it is getting spotty.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The reviewed number for the GT is 11:80s, please find me a reviewed time for the SS within 3-tenths of this time, I'll be waiting. And no I don't care about hero times posted by members where we don't know if the car was 100% stock or not.

Please this is not an apples to apples test, what would the new auto SS do same track, same driver, same day. Still 11.8 is impressive.

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by hotlap

You Mustang guys suck ...at math



Camaro volume for 2018 was 50,963
50,963/12 = 4,247


Alpha and S550 have competed 2016, 2017 and 2018. Volume was

Camaro = 72705+67940+50963 = 191,608
Mustang = 105932+81866+75842 = 263,640

263,640/191,608 = 1.38 to 1

And what is it with ---------------------- and Bold? Some need to be "special"? Save it for mama.

I was only refering to the last couple months. But you get the point.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Things just got very interesting. It looks like GM added the A10 trans as an available option on the ZLE!!!

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...L3SFBXVATu8IUM

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/20...3SVu-bJSdeLn7Y

FWIW, the 10AT in the ZL1 / ZLE is different than the 10AT in the Mustang and Camaro SS. Same basic design, but heavier duty. And ironically, it was the first 10AT to make it to market. I was guiding Al O.'s team through the NAIAS in 2016 and was showing them the Ford F150. I told them that the F150 was going to be the first vehicle to get the new GM / Ford 10 speed. Al pulled me off to the side and said "No they won't. We'll get there first with the ZL1". I asked him how that was the case when Ford was lead on the RWD design (GM was lead on the FWD 9-spd). He explained that both companies were manufacturing their own and that gave GM the leeway to develop a heavier duty version of the trans that did not need to be shared with Ford. That's what launched in the ZL1. A few months before the 10AT launched in F150. Of course, he told me to keep that quiet. This is actually the first time I've ever mentioned it.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

FWIW, the 10AT in the ZL1 / ZLE is different than the 10AT in the Mustang and Camaro SS. Same basic design, but heavier duty. And ironically, it was the first 10AT to make it to market. I was guiding Al O.'s team through the NAIAS in 2016 and was showing them the Ford F150. I told them that the F150 was going to be the first vehicle to get the new GM / Ford 10 speed. Al pulled me off to the side and said "No they won't. We'll get there first with the ZL1". I asked him how that was the case when Ford was lead on the RWD design (GM was lead on the FWD 9-spd). He explained that both companies were manufacturing their own and that gave GM the leeway to develop a heavier duty version of the trans that did not need to be shared with Ford. That's what launched in the ZL1. A few months before the 10AT launched in F150. Of course, he told me to keep that quiet. This is actually the first time I've ever mentioned it.

Great info - I wondered about that initially.

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Things just got very interesting. It looks like GM added the A10 trans as an available option on the ZLE!!!

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...L3SFBXVATu8IUM

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/20...3SVu-bJSdeLn7Y

I think they were waiting for Ford to give the announcement to throw that bucket of cold water

2 questions:

3-What do you think will be the difference in circuit time between the M6 and the A10 in the ZLE? (Would apply the same as in the ZL1? In that case I do not know the difference in times too)

2-Do you think that Chevrolet will take the A10 ZLE to the Nurburgring to show what it can do?

Another thing ... With the A10 tle ZLE goes up to $ 71,700 as the base price ... let's put that perspective against the GT350R and the GT500 TP