[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by hotlap

That’s what we’re saying. Generational advancements ...except Ford that somehow targeted 5th gen performance benchmarks for 15-17 and then stepped all over themselves with the 18 overhaul.

Ford has always had the strategy of incremental improvements within a given generation. You may not agree with it, but it’s worked for 55 years and they aren’t likely to change anytime soon.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Ford has always had the strategy of incremental improvements within a given generation. You may not agree with it, but it’s worked for 55 years and they aren’t likely to change anytime soon.

it sure was incremental. Awkwardly so ...for a few years.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

They gimped the PP2 because the GT350 is designed to be Fords track car and they charge a premium for it, how would it benefit Ford to offer a car for $10k less that delivers similar track performance?

That is exactly what I'm saying...that and the fact that those who bought a Shelby would have been pissed that they paid all that money just so that a year or two later a cheaper lower tier Mustang would come out in the same Gen and beat it. You guys are defending this bullshit for some reason.

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

By your rationale GT350 owners will also be pissed when the GT500 drops because it will offer far better performance(assumed) for what? $5k more than an R... I think $70k-$72.5 is a reasonable expectation.

That is not my rationale. For you to even make this statement, I have to wonder if you even understand what we're talking about. The GT500 should outperform the GT350. But the GT in no way shape or form should. Not on any performance metric. It already beats the GT350 in the quarter mile which is a shame. "Oh the GT350 isn't built for straight line performance" my ass. The GT, none of them, with whatever option, it should not be faster than the GT350 at all. And to know that a $30K GT could beat my $60K GT350 would steam me to no end. And then for the PP2 to be on it's heels, I'd never buy another Mustang again.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Ford has always had the strategy of incremental improvements within a given generation. You may not agree with it, but it’s worked for 55 years and they aren’t likely to change anytime soon.

And that is why I'm here on C6 with a ZL1 and not in a Mustang. If I'm paying $60K-$70K for the top tier car, then there is no way a kid should be able to spend less than half that and get a car that could outperform mine on any level. SRT8s cannot beat Hellcats. Hellcats cannot beat the RE. SS can't beat a ZL1. Stingrays can't beat a Z06. Z06s can't beat ZR1s. But with Ford, it's beginning to look like the GT350 can't beat anything including cars that cost half it's MSRP.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

That’s what we’re saying. Generational advancements ...except Ford that somehow targeted 5th gen performance benchmarks for 15-17 and then stepped all over themselves with the 18 overhaul.

Stepped all over themselves with the 18 overhaul? How? So if Chevy came out tomorrow and said we don't want to be in 3rd place any longer and the 2020 SS will have 500-hp and improved A10 gearing without a new Gen release, would you be angry about this? Would Chevy have stepped all over themselves?

This mentality that you cant offer performance improvement unless its a New Gen Model is ridiculous and maybe is the reason why the Camaro's sales struggle. I personally hope Dodge comes out in 2020 and offers a new 525-hp 426 Hemi, and Ford offers up the Bullitt 480-hp motor standard in the GT with a new drag pack option similar to the 1320. New Generation models should be about overall design changes.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Stepped all over themselves with the 18 overhaul? How? So if Chevy came out tomorrow and said we don't want to be in 3rd place any longer and the 2020 SS will have 500-hp and improved A10 gearing without a new Gen release, would you be angry about this? Would Chevy have stepped all over themselves?

Well how can they be third if the R/T is the slowest followed by the GT??

I just find it funny that the GT350 struggled all this time, got beaten by the GT in the quarter mile, and is most likely going to be cancelled or get it's ass beaten around a track by the GT too. Such a shame that the Shelby name will take second fiddle to the GT.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Stepped all over themselves with the 18 overhaul? How? So if Chevy came out tomorrow and said we don't want to be in 3rd place any longer and the 2020 SS will have 500-hp and improved A10 gearing without a new Gen release, would you be angry about this? Would Chevy have stepped all over themselves?

This mentality that you cant offer performance improvement unless its a New Gen Model is ridiculous and maybe is the reason why the Camaro's sales struggle. I personally hope Dodge comes out in 2020 and offers a new 525-hp 426 Hemi, and Ford offers up the Bullitt 480-hp motor standard in the GT with a new drag pack option similar to the 1320. New Generation models should be about overall design changes.

This isnt about a performance "improvement" it's about a lower tier car outperforming the higher tier. Like if Dodge made an 800 hp scat pack for 48k that beats the 70k hellcat. A GT outperforming a Shelby on any level in the same model year is laughable.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

This isnt about a performance "improvement" it's about a lower tier car outperforming the higher tier. Like if Dodge made an 800 hp scat pack for 48k that beats the 70k hellcat. A GT outperforming a Shelby on any level in the same model year is laughable.

Mustang guys don't think like that. Mainly because more of them buy GTs than Shelbys. So they're happy as all hell when their $29K GT can beat a $60K Shelby. But here is how you have to address them...

Newmoon, shaffe, Ethanolic, Idaho...how would you guys feel if the EB Mustang was faster than the GT in the quarter mile and around a track?? Just curious. Because if you're ok with the GT being faster than the Shelby then you should be ok with it if the EB was faster than the GT.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

This isnt about a performance "improvement" it's about a lower tier car outperforming the higher tier. Like if Dodge made an 800 hp scat pack for 48k that beats the 70k hellcat. A GT outperforming a Shelby on any level in the same model year is laughable.

Please show me any review in which a GT in any configuration is beating anything other than maybe a non- track pack 2016 GT350, in any track event. It sure in heck isn't touching a 2019 GT350. In regards to 1/4 mile we all know the GT350 isn't a 1/4 mile car no surprise it was never intended to be.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Please show me any review in which a GT in any configuration is beating anything other than maybe a non- track pack 2016 GT350, in any track event. It sure in heck isn't touching a 2019 GT350. In regards to 1/4 mile we all know the GT350 isn't a 1/4 mile car no surprise it was never intended to be.

Dodging my question again...

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Please show me any review in which a GT in any configuration is beating anything other than maybe a non- track pack 2016 GT350, in any track event. It sure in heck isn't touching a 2019 GT350. In regards to 1/4 mile we all know the GT350 isn't a 1/4 mile car no surprise it was never intended to be.

I'm not going to argue with you. I'm also not going to educate you on the previous 3 pages of this discussion. Go back and read them and then ask yourself if you're comfortable with Ford's plans.

[Ethanolic]

Shelby owners know exactly what they’re buying in relation to the GT. If they don’t that’s on them and Ford isn’t going to sit around and worry about their feelings.

If I bought a GT this year and next year Ford released a 3.5EB Non-GT that was quicker than my car, I would not cry in my corn flakes over it, if it mattered that much to me I’d trade in and get the cheaper car.

Ford shouldn’t have added the a10 and G3 coyote in 18 because ‘17 owners will be sad.....Aight.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Please show me any review in which a GT in any configuration is beating anything other than maybe a non- track pack 2016 GT350, in any track event. It sure in heck isn't touching a 2019 GT350. In regards to 1/4 mile we all know the GT350 isn't a 1/4 mile car no surprise it was never intended to be.

That's funny... you're all about one dimensional stats when you're talking about how a particular Mustang beats a particular Camaro....

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Rodan

That's funny... you're all about one dimensional stats when you're talking about how a particular Mustang beats a particular Camaro....

One dimensional is that kinda like a 650-hp ZL1-1LE running barely quicker than a $25k less expensive A10 Equipped 460-hp GT in the 1/4 mile?