[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Also to add, when people say "I got $10,000 off of MSRP", there's a lot to understand there.

For one, being eligible for a GM discount will get you a significant "amount off" MSRP. Let's say $3000.

Then, because you lease a Dodge, GM throws you a $1500 Conquest rebate.

Then, because you live in a targeted zip code, GM has an extra consumer cash rebate of $1000.

Then, because you happened to finance with GM Financial, they throw in $2500 in additional consumer cash.

Then, due to a nationwide program, there's an additional $1000 in Cap cost reduction available.

Lastly, due to your wife leasing a GMC, GM throws you $1000 GM lease loyalty.

Wow look at you go. You got $10,000 off of MSRP! In reality, the dealer did not discount the car a PENNY. They sold it to you straight at GM Employee price (Which legally, dealers cannot sell below). You basically qualified for $10,000 in incentives from GM.

Some people will never see $5000+ off MSRP because they have no GM discount, no loyalty/conquest and/or live in an area that GM isn't targeting with offers. Others, like those who live in Metro Detroit which is highly competitive, may see $15,000 off MSRP due to all the GM incentives.

Again, doesn't mean that one person got screwed and one person got a screaming deal. The dealer made the same amount of profit on the car. It's just a variance of GM and each individual customer.

If there's one thing you can take away from the car business: You never know what is going to come through that door. LOL. By that I mean, every quote is different depending on dozens of variables.

Let me know if you guys have questions.

[43Camaro]

This was all great information. Thanks for posting, the dealer I bought from wouldn't even talk to me about the first responder rebate unless I had the PIN already which I applied for before hand on the GM site. Once I gave them the PIN they honored the rebate.

[Revalot]

Great advice, I think more dealers play with interest rates when dealer financing, Mine got me for 5% when I knew I should have been 3%, but I'm not complaining, they also added 3 extra months on the end. So doesn't a dealer get cash back from financing with certain banks ?

[WhiteMale]

My better half is a bank manager. We got in to haggling about his 1000 discount, for the finance incentive, when I said "she's a bank manager, I'll just re-fi it when I leave here", because I said I'll bring a check and you leave that 1000 discount in there, then he got all butt hurt about he'd lose his kick back (my words) on the finance deal if I refi'd it under 120days, but that's his problem.
You're not going to get the best rate you could get in a dealer finance/business office. We did this with the 1LE, actually. She got all bug eyed at that interest rate and they almost lost the sale but she said we'll go right in and do a re-fi and we beat that rate by at least two full % points.
A lot of the interest rate is the payment that you agree to, it seems that they plug that in and a couple of other numbers and the rate magically appears vs. the sale price, the rate and the payment being derived that way.

[PROMETHEUS]

Lindsay Chevrolet, Woodbridge, VA, just got two, M6 1LEs in stock. Crush and Elkhart Lake Blue. A little more than $6K off sticker.

[Jofu]

Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS

Lindsay Chevrolet, Woodbridge, VA, just got two, M6 1LEs in stock. Crush and Elkhart Lake Blue. A little more than $6K off sticker.

Impressive, given current circumstances!!!

Geoff

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Dealers CAN make money on financing but it's usually $100-$400, with only large finance deals getting sizable "kickbacks" which are typically called "Flats". It's banks way of incentivizing dealers to utilize their services. That said, it's in the dealers benefit to give the customer the bank with the lowest rate and keep the payments as competitive as possible with other dealers. For that reason, financing is not a main source of revenue by any means.

Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS

Lindsay Chevrolet, Woodbridge, VA, just got two, M6 1LEs in stock. Crush and Elkhart Lake Blue. A little more than $6K off sticker.

A dealer did not just knock $6,000 off of MSRP for no reason. I looked at the orange ZLE and ran the invoice on it. If the customer didn't qualify for Employee or Supplier, they would be losing ~$1160 on the front end of the deal. Their cost on that car is $71,727.55. $1,000 of that $6,000 is coming from GM ("customer cash"). These are frequently called "leader prices". Basically, BS until you get there.

Look at the fine print. Their discount of $5312 (besides the $1000) is coming from a variety of manufacturer rebates and factory incentives. Chances are not everybody qualifies for them. The dealer is not discounting the car out of THEIR pocket at all/very much at that price. Plus, expect all kinds of dealer red tape to popup when you do call.

"Please contact the dealer for additional manufacturer rebates that may be available and could further reduce your price! "Love It" prices include current manufacturer rebates and factory incentives, some of which may require financing through the manufacturer and are therefore subject to credit approval. Additional factory rebates from certain manufacturers, such as first time buyers, recent college graduates, veterans and/or active members of the military, owners of competitive makes, loyalty rebates etc, may be available. "Love It" pricing may not be compatible with special factory financing. "Love It" prices are valid based on manufacturer incentive program time periods."

[Alain]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Let me start by saying I own a Chevy dealer among other things. The answer to this question wildly varies depending on your zip code (rebates vary by location), the monthly programs, and the GM discount you qualify for. The pricing discussion with a Chevy ALWAYS starts at what program you qualify for. There's two different tiers of discount and a few different ways to get each. The best discount is GM Employee which is approximately 5% off MSRP. The second one is GM Supplier, around 2.5% off MSRP. Depending on who you know and what you do, you may qualify for one of the tiers (Work as an Educator, military, GM employee relative, or work for a supplier to GM etc.). Check your workplace against this website to see if yours counts. A surprisingly wide variety do. https://www.gmsupplierdiscount.com/about-the-discount/

Then there are the complex world of rebates which not only vary month to month, but customer to customer, vehicle to vehicle, and location to location. Rebates subtract off the sale price you qualify for as determined above. Rebates are relatively general on cars like ZL1's and they're pretty few and far in between. There's also different amounts of rebate or "consumer cash" between financing through GM Financial or through your own lender/bank or a lender your dealer is able to procure the best rate for you from.

There are technically 4 "prices" for Chevrolet vehicles. In order from highest to lowest:
MSRP - $70,000 for example
Invoice - $68,000 (This is what the dealer paid GM for the vehicle)
Supplier - $65,000
Employee $62,500

This means that whenever a dealer sells for Supplier or Employee, the dealer is negative on the books until GM refunds the dealer the difference to restore profitable transactions. A VERY common misconception is that dealers have thousands and thousands of dollars of margin on vehicles and if you "barter" hard enough, dealers will just start passing out thousands at a crack. This is not true. Dealers have around $2000 in margin to play with on ZL1s. Even less on cheaper vehicles. Compared to retail, restaurants, etc. the profit margin as a percentage of selling price is fairly pitiful as a dealer.

Please note a few things:

1) Dealers cannot give Supplier or Employee discount to those who do not qualify for it. All GM discounts require a PIN number to be provided to the dealer. We then provide this to GM in order to redeem the refund to recover our loss. For this reason, a dealer cannot just honor employee or supplier for someone who doesn't actually qualify for the program.
2) Dealers are not allowed to discount the selling price below GM Employee program price. It is against the dealer agreement.
3) Once the sell price is determined, say Employee, all rebates and consumer cash are subtracted from that price. As an above poster mentioned, rebates and consumer cash do not count as discounting the vehicle. This is because rebates and consumer cash come FROM GM. Not from the dealer.

Long story made longer, pricing on new vehicles, especially big three vehicles, is very complex. It takes months for sales consultants even to learn it inside and out. The complexity of the pricing process makes it seem like dealers are scamming you but in reality a lot of dealers these days run a pretty clean process and the immense competition means that most dealers will quote within dollars of each other if both have equal information. If you're getting a drastically different quote at one dealer to another, something is wrong. One of the dealers has wrong or better info from you OR are assuming a discount tier or leaving out fees/taxes etc. to lure you in the door.

I'm willing to discuss any questions about this subject. I'll break down any deal you're given. I can tell you that you'll be very hard pressed to find a dealer that will discount these vehicles very much at current times.

Thank you for posting all this information.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by WhiteMale

My better half is a bank manager. We got in to haggling about his 1000 discount, for the finance incentive, when I said "she's a bank manager, I'll just re-fi it when I leave here", because I said I'll bring a check and you leave that 1000 discount in there, then he got all butt hurt about he'd lose his kick back (my words) on the finance deal if I refi'd it under 120days, but that's his problem.
You're not going to get the best rate you could get in a dealer finance/business office. We did this with the 1LE, actually. She got all bug eyed at that interest rate and they almost lost the sale but she said we'll go right in and do a re-fi and we beat that rate by at least two full % points.
A lot of the interest rate is the payment that you agree to, it seems that they plug that in and a couple of other numbers and the rate magically appears vs. the sale price, the rate and the payment being derived that way.

Well, it does all depend on the dealership you're at. Some are better or worse than others. The situation you describe does sound accurate. It's true that if you payoff or re-fi a contract, the bank will charge back any "reserve" that they paid the dealership on that deal. But that money isn't very significant.

What dealers do is take your credit in their management system, send the application with the car pricing breakdown to lenders, which most usually have access to 25+. This all happens digitally. Depending 100% on credit/income/vehicle price, there are automatic approvals/declines and manual reviews. Some approvals/lenders take seconds, others minutes, and others hours. The bank that sends back the best interest rate is usually the one the dealer selects. Each bank will pay a "flat" amount per contract, this is the reserve I mentioned. Usually dealers can get the best rate IF the business manager is a legitimate one. After all, they're essentially shopping banks at "wholesale" rates, whereas consumers are getting "retail" rates. So again, a good business manager makes all the difference.

As for the last part, all pricing systems take the sell price, rebates, taxes and rate specified to produce a payment. Dealers can quote based on an assumed rate, such as 3.99%. Then once they run your credit to see where you qualify for, they will re-quote/do final paperwork based on the actual rate a bank approved you for. Choose an ethical establishment and you'll be good to go.

Goes without saying, if you have outstanding credit, you have life on easy street and you don't need any "help" getting approved by being shopped at many different lenders like dealers can do rather easily. Bad credit or mediocre credit customers however will often greatly benefit from the business office.

[WhiteMale]

I don't if at the time 5% was the best that they could manage for me, this finance guy had a bad vibe the moment we sat down, but I had a documented 875 on my name and it was BS for what new car rates were at the time.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by WhiteMale

I don't if at the time 5% was the best that they could manage for me, this finance guy had a bad vibe the moment we sat down, but I had a documented 875 on my name and it was BS for what new car rates were at the time.

I'm sure 5% wasn't the lowest. They probably had a 2% markup on that, which is the maximum allowed.

[Snowwolfe]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Let me start by saying I own a Chevy dealer among other things. The answer to this question wildly varies depending on your zip code (rebates vary by location), the monthly programs, and the GM discount you qualify for. The pricing discussion with a Chevy ALWAYS starts at what program you qualify for. There's two different tiers of discount and a few different ways to get each. The best discount is GM Employee which is approximately 5% off MSRP. The second one is GM Supplier, around 2.5% off MSRP. Depending on who you know and what you do, you may qualify for one of the tiers (Work as an Educator, military, GM employee relative, or work for a supplier to GM etc.). Check your workplace against this website to see if yours counts. A surprisingly wide variety do. https://www.gmsupplierdiscount.com/about-the-discount/

Then there are the complex world of rebates which not only vary month to month, but customer to customer, vehicle to vehicle, and location to location. Rebates subtract off the sale price you qualify for as determined above. Rebates are relatively general on cars like ZL1's and they're pretty few and far in between. There's also different amounts of rebate or "consumer cash" between financing through GM Financial or through your own lender/bank or a lender your dealer is able to procure the best rate for you from.

There are technically 4 "prices" for Chevrolet vehicles. In order from highest to lowest:
MSRP - $70,000 for example
Invoice - $68,000 (This is what the dealer paid GM for the vehicle)
Supplier - $65,000
Employee $62,500

This means that whenever a dealer sells for Supplier or Employee, the dealer is negative on the books until GM refunds the dealer the difference to restore profitable transactions. A VERY common misconception is that dealers have thousands and thousands of dollars of margin on vehicles and if you "barter" hard enough, dealers will just start passing out thousands at a crack. This is not true. Dealers have around $2000 in margin to play with on ZL1s. Even less on cheaper vehicles. Compared to retail, restaurants, etc. the profit margin as a percentage of selling price is fairly pitiful as a dealer.

Please note a few things:

1) Dealers cannot give Supplier or Employee discount to those who do not qualify for it. All GM discounts require a PIN number to be provided to the dealer. We then provide this to GM in order to redeem the refund to recover our loss. For this reason, a dealer cannot just honor employee or supplier for someone who doesn't actually qualify for the program.
2) Dealers are not allowed to discount the selling price below GM Employee program price. It is against the dealer agreement.
3) Once the sell price is determined, say Employee, all rebates and consumer cash are subtracted from that price. As an above poster mentioned, rebates and consumer cash do not count as discounting the vehicle. This is because rebates and consumer cash come FROM GM. Not from the dealer.

Long story made longer, pricing on new vehicles, especially big three vehicles, is very complex. It takes months for sales consultants even to learn it inside and out. The complexity of the pricing process makes it seem like dealers are scamming you but in reality a lot of dealers these days run a pretty clean process and the immense competition means that most dealers will quote within dollars of each other if both have equal information. If you're getting a drastically different quote at one dealer to another, something is wrong. One of the dealers has wrong or better info from you OR are assuming a discount tier or leaving out fees/taxes etc. to lure you in the door.

I'm willing to discuss any questions about this subject. I'll break down any deal you're given. I can tell you that you'll be very hard pressed to find a dealer that will discount these vehicles very much at current times.

If employee pricing is 5% off msrp how did you arrive at $62,500 for a car that had a msrp of $70k?

[Trak-Toy]

Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS

Lindsay Chevrolet, Woodbridge, VA, just got two, M6 1LEs in stock. Crush and Elkhart Lake Blue. A little more than $6K off sticker.

That price at Lindsay won’t stand. It’s a teaser to get you in the door. I went there when I was shopping for my ZLE and they had the same incentives listed. After the typical runaround, the sales manager came over and said they won’t do that pricing. They basically wanted sticker minus $1000 customer cash..

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Dealers CAN make money on financing but it's usually $100-$400, with only large finance deals getting sizable "kickbacks" which are typically called "Flats". It's banks way of incentivizing dealers to utilize their services. That said, it's in the dealers benefit to give the customer the bank with the lowest rate and keep the payments as competitive as possible with other dealers. For that reason, financing is not a main source of revenue by any means.

A dealer did not just knock $6,000 off of MSRP for no reason. I looked at the orange ZLE and ran the invoice on it. If the customer didn't qualify for Employee or Supplier, they would be losing ~$1160 on the front end of the deal. Their cost on that car is $71,727.55. $1,000 of that $6,000 is coming from GM ("customer cash"). These are frequently called "leader prices". Basically, BS until you get there.

Look at the fine print. Their discount of $5312 (besides the $1000) is coming from a variety of manufacturer rebates and factory incentives. Chances are not everybody qualifies for them. The dealer is not discounting the car out of THEIR pocket at all/very much at that price. Plus, expect all kinds of dealer red tape to popup when you do call.

"Please contact the dealer for additional manufacturer rebates that may be available and could further reduce your price! "Love It" prices include current manufacturer rebates and factory incentives, some of which may require financing through the manufacturer and are therefore subject to credit approval. Additional factory rebates from certain manufacturers, such as first time buyers, recent college graduates, veterans and/or active members of the military, owners of competitive makes, loyalty rebates etc, may be available. "Love It" pricing may not be compatible with special factory financing. "Love It" prices are valid based on manufacturer incentive program time periods."

That’s a pretty weak kickback. Thought it would be more.