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Old 03-25-2023, 06:58 AM   #15
rst08tierney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelG View Post
A few months back I would have told you that I would never own an EV. I'm not driving an appliance.

However, after a few months of my wife twisting my arm, I finally bought her a Tesla Model 3. It's what she wanted and I don't have to drive it.

Well after owning it, and driving it, for 6 weeks. What is running through my head now, is wow, what if this car looked and handled like my Camaro.

I'm in if GM makes an EV that is truly a Camaro...


A story like this only comes from California.
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Old 03-25-2023, 07:26 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by arpad_m View Post
Even the enthusiast population will be split on this one. Some who say they love V8 muscle but actually, in their heart of hearts, only really care about comfort and convenience will flock to EVs, the rest will stick to ICE.

The qualities you listed (quiet, low maintenance, OTA updates, one pedal driving, tech/infotainment) are clearly non-enthusiast preferences and values—nothing wrong with them per se, it's just that they belong to folks who don't really want to drive, and an EV is just perfect for them. It's all right, though, I actually would've bought an EV for the wife if a decent one existed at a decent price, but the truth is an EV can never truly replace a Camaro or a Challenger.

Absolutely true! Nearly every EV review is about the operating experience, not the driving experience outside of the boring description of how quick they accelerate. I'm so tired of the EV posts going back and forth about the viability of them, range, charging... etc. I don't care if they have a 1000mi range, charge in 30s, and operating themselves, i want to know if the driving experience can replace a masterpiece like the 6th gen Camaro.
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Old 03-25-2023, 07:56 AM   #17
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I'm glad you're enjoying your EV. What I'm more glad about is that it appears as though Chevrolet/gm is going to let Camaro die internal combustion powered. I think it's awesome that gm is potentially coming out with a Chevrolet Panther as their muscle EV car. It has heritage as the original Camaro intended name, but is something original to not just rebadge a new car with an old nameplate.

As they sit right now, in my opinion, EVs will be a fad like 3D TVs. One day they will disappear quietly like 3D TVs did. They're a neat idea, but they're still an inferior vehicle compared to their internal combustion powered counterparts.
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Old 03-25-2023, 08:59 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by raptor5244 View Post
I expect more and more responses such as yours as more enthusiasts try out EVs. The reality is the Tesla is an unbelievable daily driver. They are quick, smooth, quiet, low maintenance, OTA software updateone pedal driving, great tech, plug in at night leave with a full charge in the morning. The Model 3 actually handles very good with its low center of gravity and the SR model with one motor on the rear axle feels like a mid-engine car from a handling perspective. Even the slow Tesla feels faster than many high horsepower cars.

I owned a Tesla Model 3 Performance for about 2 years and my wife still own a Model 3 Standard Range for the past 4 years. From an enthusiast perspective, the Tesla or any EV will lack the noise, vibration and driving engagement you get with a manual transmission. If those things are important then you will want to have an performance ICE based vehicle in the stable. Otherwise for the majority of buyers, like your wife, an EV will be more desirable.

From an acceleration perspective the Tesla M3P (0-60 in 3.0 sec) would roast my ZL1 with the A10 to about 70mph but then the ZL1 will chase it down on the top end. On a highway pull the ZL1 will dust the M3P since the Teslas have no gearing but the reality is that the Tesla and EVs in general have more usable power down low on the street and they accelerate effortlessly.

I agree with you. If GM can get the styling right and implement all the great handling features such as magride, maybe an electric motor at each wheel so you don't even need tech like E-diff, etc. then I would be interested. The issue right now, is that GM has to prove they can build reliable EVs. Ford F150 Lightning battery short circuits, GM Bolt battery fires, etc. Tesla is still a quite a bit ahead from a tech perspective but we will see if they can catch up.
The real fact is they are over priced, and not for most people.

Brand new $42,000 for a Tesla Model 3.

90% of society doesn't live in the top 10% of the economy. That's something most people fail to understand.

TL : DR Call me when they make a $25,000 EV that isn't a piece of shit.

Oh and for those that don't know. Your tesla is connected via cloud servers directly to Tesla, they can control your vehicle and settings and even override any potential changes you make without your knowledge. You signed that agreement when you bought the car.
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Old 03-25-2023, 10:05 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by FlukeSS View Post
The real fact is they are over priced, and not for most people.

Brand new $42,000 for a Tesla Model 3.

90% of society doesn't live in the top 10% of the economy. That's something most people fail to understand.

TL : DR Call me when they make a $25,000 EV that isn't a piece of shit.

Oh and for those that don't know. Your tesla is connected via cloud servers directly to Tesla, they can control your vehicle and settings and even override any potential changes you make without your knowledge. You signed that agreement when you bought the car.
Our Tesla Model 3 has a specific use case. It does the daily driving duty to work, school and grocery getter. Charging at home at 12 cents per kilowatt it saves a lot of money on fuel. It costs us about $5 in electricity to go 200 miles. When we bought the Tesla Model 3 SR+ in 2019 it was $40k less the $3,750 tax credit at the time. So, for $36k it was roughly the same price as a loaded up V6 Toyota Camry, but with much better performance and tech. In the 4 years of ownership and 44,000 miles so far, all I have done is put a new set of tires. So, I would not buy an EV for long distance travel or if I lived in an apartment complex where I could not conveniently charge. A Hybrid is a better option.

I agree the prices need to come down but keep in mind the average price of a new vehicle is now ~$45k. When you consider the tax credit of $7,500 for those that qualify and the fuel savings this car is reasonable. Chevy will release the Equinox EV and Tesla is supposedly working on a $25k Model 2. We will see lower cost models eventually but it takes time since the traditional manufacturers need to be profitable. For example, Ford loses money on those Mach Es they build and Tesla cutting prices is forcing them to lose even more per unit.
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Old 03-25-2023, 10:09 AM   #20
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My wife and I have no delusions that electric energy is clean energy. Trust me, we are not voting for"green" energy initiatives. We are not voting for tax payer money going to subsidize the EV push. I pay a lot just like my fellow hard working taxpayers, I do not want to pay more than my share of taxes for an agenda that the market will sort out in time.

To the point that the car is overpriced: $7,500 fed tax credit, $2,000 California rebate, and local utilities & AQMD paying for most of the cost on home charging station. We saved over $10,000. With local utility incentives, it's costing about $12.50 for 250 miles of range compared to $62 for my Camaro and my SUV. I'm paying over $5.00 a gallon today.

With the all these incentives, the Model 3 Performance will be about $44,000. The base would be about $33,000. If it does turn out to be a piece of junk, I already have depreciation of vehicle covered for the next 3 years according to current resale value. However, my gut is telling me this is not a bad car. Time will tell...
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Old 03-25-2023, 10:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hops View Post
Absolutely true! Nearly every EV review is about the operating experience, not the driving experience outside of the boring description of how quick they accelerate. I'm so tired of the EV posts going back and forth about the viability of them, range, charging... etc. I don't care if they have a 1000mi range, charge in 30s, and operating themselves, i want to know if the driving experience can replace a masterpiece like the 6th gen Camaro.
I don't disagree. Once the novelty of the instant torque and face melting acceleration wore off you are not left with much driving engagement, which is why I sold my Tesla Model 3 Performance for a ZL1. They both have their pros and cons.
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Old 03-25-2023, 10:16 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by arpad_m View Post
Even the enthusiast population will be split on this one. Some who say they love V8 muscle but actually, in their heart of hearts, only really care about comfort and convenience will flock to EVs, the rest will stick to ICE.

The qualities you listed (quiet, low maintenance, OTA updates, one pedal driving, tech/infotainment) are clearly non-enthusiast preferences and values—nothing wrong with them per se, it's just that they belong to folks who don't really want to drive, and an EV is just perfect for them. It's all right, though, I actually would've bought an EV for the wife if a decent one existed at a decent price, but the truth is an EV can never truly replace a Camaro or a Challenger.
I hear you. They both get you from point a to point b but the driving experiences are very different. Unfortunately, enthusiasts like us are a dying breed. Most people just don't care about cars or car culture. They are more interested in a vehicle that will insulate them from the road vs. connecting them to it. They don't want to roll the windows down and make the exhaust louder, they want double paned glass windows and tons of sound deadening so you block out as much noise as possible.

Dodge is trying to come up with something but electronic exhaust noises and simulated shifts is probably not going to work.
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Old 03-25-2023, 10:26 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by MichaelG View Post
Quietly going 0-60 in 3.1 seconds while your head slams into headrest is pretty cool though
I would have to tell everyone to put their head back against the headrest first or you might strain your neck.

I haven't driven any other EVs but the Model 3 handles a lot better than most people think it will. I mean it pulls almost 1g in the skidpad without any fancy mag ride suspension or coilovers and the Tesla aftermarket is getting stronger and improve any handling desires.

https://unpluggedperformance.com/mod...ance-upgrades/

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Old 03-25-2023, 10:33 AM   #24
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If they ever built a Camaro EV, it would probably look good to me. But I’m a manual transmission guy so right off the bat, it’s a no Camaro EV for me. The tax rebate and Tesla prices do have me considering one for the wife down the road. If a EV Blazer SS is $66k, I would think a loaded EV Camaro SS single motor starting at $60k if lucky.
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Old 03-25-2023, 10:35 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor5244 View Post
I would have to tell everyone to put their head back against the headrest first or you might strain your neck.

I haven't driven any other EVs but the Model 3 handles a lot better than most people think it will. I mean it pulls almost 1g in the skidpad without any fancy mag ride suspension or coilovers and the Tesla aftermarket is getting stronger and improve any handling desires.

https://unpluggedperformance.com/mod...ance-upgrades/

Attachment 1123519
What no 60-130? Willing to bet a few ICE vehicles on these forums will make that car look stupid. And I know with a good tire and some better experience, my car can probably best that 1/4 mile time with not to much trouble. And I still paid less for my car, with the mods.



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Old 03-25-2023, 11:00 AM   #26
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I did 40-90 pulls on my Honda VFR800 motorcycle against my Bros Model 3 performance and we were neck and neck. I was busting ass and he was just pressing the pedal, I was impressed by performance. But everyone can do it=easy and boring to me.
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Old 03-25-2023, 11:12 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Red Chief View Post
In case anyone's wondering where this push for electric cars is really coming from...here you go. There's millions of women like her in the First World and they're voting against you.

If you ever find yourself in MichaelG's shoes, show the woman in your life a glimpse of how lithium batteries are made, "safely" tucked away in third world countries:





lets not pretend that petroleum is somehow a clean and environmentally efficient fuel source.
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Old 03-25-2023, 11:45 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by MichaelG View Post
A few months back I would have told you that I would never own an EV. I'm not driving an appliance.

However, after a few months of my wife twisting my arm, I finally bought her a Tesla Model 3. It's what she wanted and I don't have to drive it.

Well after owning it, and driving it, for 6 weeks. What is running through my head now, is wow, what if this car looked and handled like my Camaro.

I'm in if GM makes an EV that is truly a Camaro...

I've got a Model 3 Perf - Had it almost 2 years. Prior to that I had an Audi S3 for almost 4 years (and prior to that a string of other fast / fun cars).

The Tesla is overpriced for the build quality, but it is a fantastic piece of engineering that offsets it.

The near linear power delivery with AWD makes for seriously giggle inducing accleration.

Its a fantastic road trip car - we've done the NorCal -> SoCal trip a dozen times and done to Palm Springs, up to Tahoe, etc. The Autopilot takes a lot of the fatigue out of driving those long trips. We just drove up to Tahoe in my the truck ('04 2500HD Duramax) and after 6 hrs I was mentally tired from driving the truck - in the Tesla I just plop the autopilot on, keep a hand on the steering wheel and monitor it to make sure its not doing something dumb or dangerous.


The downside, and I think this is where I agree with you on the handling aspects. The handling can best be described as a Frightened Squirrel. The front end is darty, there's very little feedback in the steering, the tires are wowefuly too narrow for its overall weight and the brake provide little to no feedback which makes modulation difficult (for me).

I missed driving something that handled well and was, for lack fo a better term, 'fun' to drive. The Tesla, in its current form, isn't it. The Audi, for me, was a good compromise - it did road trips OK (had adaptive cruise control), but was also fun to drive and toss around.

For me I think teh combination fo the telsa for daily driving / road trips and the SS 1LE for, well.. driving like a hooligan, is a good combination. I dont' think Iw ould want an SS 1LE as my only daily driver. its harsh, loud, trunk access is shitty (I can't fit a bicycle in the trunk or back seat for example).


We may not like it, but electric (or hybrid) is the future. We are the dinosaurs now.
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