[Rodan]

Originally Posted by shaffe

The brochure stated the car comes standard with engine oil, dif and trans coolers. So shouldn't be a one lap wonder

Having the parts, and making them work in a track environment are two different things.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Let's get this back on track out of respect for the forum.

Is the GT500 going to beat the ZLE around a track? My vote is "NO". A big fat "NO". I think GM built a car that is on a completely different level. It is designed for one purpose, the track. Which is why the suspension is not suitable for extended DD activity as expressed by most people.

Is the GT500 going to beat the standard ZL1 around a track. I think it might. But my money is on the ZL1 as I am a fan and owner of one. I vote for the team I'm on. If the GT500 does beat the standard ZL1, then I think it'll be close. There is only soo much that these cars are capable of. And Ford would have to build something completely out of this world to beat the ZL1 and be priced competitively and be optioned well. I don't think that is gonna happen.

In a straight line I think it's obvious that the GT500 will beat the ZL1. It should tho. It has well over 50 more HP...probably closer to 100 more. If anything, this is what Frod should have focused on...beating the ZL1 in a straight line, keeping it close on a track...while beating the HC on a track and staying close to the RE in a straight line. Then put it in a package that is well optioned and dependable with adequate coolers, none of the engine issues that the rest of the S550 Mustangs suffered from, and decently priced. If Frod tried to take the whole cake or build half of a GT500 for straight line and then a race GT500 for something else, then I think both iterations will be nowhere near as well-balanced as the ZL1 is.

End of the day, the GT500 might win in one area with each version or whatever. But overall I think the ZL1 will still be the better buy, the better deal, and the better overall performer.

My gut says yes and only because of the HP bump and the DCT. But, we shall see. I personally don't care about road course track times or do I care about drag times. I care about joe blow lining up next to me in Mexico. And I think the 500 is gonna be a sick ass platform to build on. That's just me tho. We gonna find out here soon. I think once they come out and tuning commences, we are gonna see some amazing builds.


All things equal stock for stock.............I can't compare a $100k 500 vs a $60k Zl1. I just can't. I'd have to line the ZR1 up with the 500 and we already know what would happen in that comparison.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Pricing will be interesting to see for sure. I just keep looking back to how ford was able to undercut the price of the Z/28 by over 10K with the 350R back in 2015. Ford knows where this car needs to MSRP



The brochure stated the car comes standard with engine oil, dif and trans coolers. So shouldn't be a one lap wonder

But the 350r is now at $70,000 as a base price. Do you really think with the gt500 being a faster car both strip and track, and have more options and be cheaper then the R? Plus the GT500 has always been the pinnacle of the Shelby’s. So my guess, it will come in at $79,900

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

But the 350r is now at $70,000 as a base price. Do you really think with the gt500 being a faster car both strip and track, and have more options and be cheaper then the R? Plus the GT500 has always been the pinnacle of the Shelby’s. So my guess, it will come in at $79,900

^ for the base yea. For the carbon pack, I'm leaning upwards towards $90k. With ADM, we gonna see $125k. And I base that on you being able to buy a fake ass super snake for $109k right now so. We'll see. I'm still going to buy one. Got to have it. Just to build it.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

I have a GT350. I know how much mods cost (Just for a fkn intake and tune was $1000). And yes, you are right, you tech don't need the Lund Gauge to run E85 as the car will adjust on the fly, but I want several tunes that I can upload depending on what I plan on doing in Mexico. I don't do canned tunes either. My tuner is $700. So yea, just a pulley swap, labor, tune, will run around $1200-$1500. Add any fueling upgrades and tuning on top of that. Sorry, I'd put my GT350 on the line to anyone who can get the 500, spend less than $1000 and get it 100 hp to the wheels. Considering it's prob gonna cost around $500 to get the ECU cracked. From what I'm hearing..............rumor of course. The ECU on the 500 is gonna be a bitch to get around, so we'll see.

LOL, well he doesn't have one which is why he's talking about cheap canned tunes.

I do think the aftermarket will bring substantial gains to the GT500. But again, it will come down to the few people who can afford one, the fewer people who will actually buy one with the crazy markups it will have, and then the even fewer still who will go and void their warranty on tunes and headers etc. And it'll be only the top tuners like Lund who will see those customers anyway. And they won't be going with canned tunes. That much is for sure. I suspect that Lund isn't even gonna do a custom email tune on that car until after some time...maybe 2 years from now. Will just a tune be enough to void the warranty? I doubt it. At that point people will want LTs ($1500 minimum I suspect from Kooks and ARH) and intakes (probably in the $700 and up range). Throw in a pulley for whatever the price plus labor will come out to. It will be a large sum of money. And they better hope they don't have engine troubles because something goes wrong and I can see that engine costing $30K.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

But the 350r is now at $70,000 as a base price. Do you really think with the gt500 being a faster car both strip and track, and have more options and be cheaper then the R? Plus the GT500 has always been the pinnacle of the Shelby’s. So my guess, it will come in at $79,900

I wonder how silly those guys who paid ADMs on the 350(R and non-R) will feel when they see the GT500 coming in at what some of them paid for a lesser performing car that now can't beat a base GT in a straight line nor a ZL1 at anything nor a GT500 at anything nor a Hellcat...

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL, well he doesn't have one which is why he's talking about cheap canned tunes.

I do think the aftermarket will bring substantial gains to the GT500. But again, it will come down to the few people who can afford one, the fewer people who will actually buy one with the crazy markups it will have, and then the even fewer still who will go and void their warranty on tunes and headers etc. And it'll be only the top tuners like Lund who will see those customers anyway. And they won't be going with canned tunes. That much is for sure. I suspect that Lund isn't even gonna do a custom email tune on that car until after some time...maybe 2 years from now. Will just a tune be enough to void the warranty? I doubt it. At that point people will want LTs ($1500 minimum I suspect from Kooks and ARH) and intakes (probably in the $700 and up range). Throw in a pulley for whatever the price plus labor will come out to. It will be a large sum of money. And they better hope they don't have engine troubles because something goes wrong and I can see that engine costing $30K.

Agreed. No way in hell could I ever do a canned tune. I'm running too many types of fuel. And on the 500, I'm sure I'll be running some sort of e85/116/meth combo so. Yea, a bs canned tune ain't gonna cut it. LT's gonna run closer to $2k. You gonna pay the 500 premium on parts that's for sure. But, from what I heard and saw on Utube on the motor cutout, you won't need headers on this car. I think you focus on boost/fueling/tuning and get as much out of that as you can. I think the exhaust side of it will be fine. That's the ONLY part on my car that hasn't been touched, the X pipe. I'm not spending $1000 for an X pipe on the Zl1 for me to get 1-2 hp. Even tho Kooks won't admit it.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Pricing will be interesting to see for sure. I just keep looking back to how ford was able to undercut the price of the Z/28 by over 10K with the 350R back in 2015. Ford knows where this car needs to MSRP



The brochure stated the car comes standard with engine oil, dif and trans coolers. So shouldn't be a one lap wonder

Z/28 came with carbon ceramic brakes. Old platform that they slapped a lot of expensive parts on.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Agreed. No way in hell could I ever do a canned tune. I'm running too many types of fuel. And on the 500, I'm sure I'll be running some sort of e85/116/meth combo so. Yea, a bs canned tune ain't gonna cut it. LT's gonna run closer to $2k. You gonna pay the 500 premium on parts that's for sure. But, from what I heard and saw on Utube on the motor cutout, you won't need headers on this car. I think you focus on boost/fueling/tuning and get as much out of that as you can. I think the exhaust side of it will be fine. That's the ONLY part on my car that hasn't been touched, the X pipe. I'm not spending $1000 for an X pipe on the Zl1 for me to get 1-2 hp. Even tho Kooks won't admit it.

Ah I see. So they're probably doing the exhaust manifolds similar to how Dodge does them on the Hellcat. You can make over 900 RWHP on the HC without touching the stock manifolds. And they say that installing them isn't worth the money or agony of the install process. So yea, on these cars with large blowers you can get away with tune, fuel, pulley, intake and call it a day.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ah I see. So they're probably doing the exhaust manifolds similar to how Dodge does them on the Hellcat. You can make over 900 RWHP on the HC without touching the stock manifolds. And they say that installing them isn't worth the money or agony of the install process. So yea, on these cars with large blowers you can get away with tune, fuel, pulley, intake and call it a day.

Basically yea. No need to run headers or exhaust on this car. At least I won't be upgrading those parts. I'm gonna focus on boost/fuel/tuning and call it a day. I think you can focus on those parts and hit the 900's. Obviously, you'll prob need to work the exhaust some and headers if you are wanting over 1000, but you get the idea. I think honestly, $5k on this platform on from stock gets you in the mid 800's to the wheels. The 2650 is good for what? 1000 hp? With supporting mods, 1100 hp? If you want anything more, you'll need to go TT or PC.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Basically yea. No need to run headers or exhaust on this car. At least I won't be upgrading those parts. I'm gonna focus on boost/fuel/tuning and call it a day. I think you can focus on those parts and hit the 900's. Obviously, you'll prob need to work the exhaust some and headers if you are wanting over 1000, but you get the idea. I think honestly, $5k on this platform on from stock gets you in the mid 800's to the wheels. The 2650 is good for what? 1000 hp? With supporting mods, 1100 hp? If you want anything more, you'll need to go TT or PC.

Definitely 1000...or at least I wouldn't doubt 1000. The 2400 in my HC is good for over 900. I'm looking forward to what we'll see with the GT500. The first few modded ones will be very expensive for sure just because it's a new platform. In a year or two we'll see prices start to drop.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by V8 Fan

The Boss 302 Laguna Seca was out of production before the Z28 hit the market. That's probably the reason. Motor Trend did have a GT350R and a GT350 in their press fleet at the same time. They tested them both at Chuckwalla on the same day, driven by Randy Pobst. I don't know if they had to give it up to another media outlet before the BDC competition. It could also be asked, why didn't Chevy provide an SS 1LE to Motor Trend when they had the GT350R, GT350, and Z28 at Chuckwalla? As far as head-2-heads go, the "lower" cars just don't draw as much interest as the halo cars.

Pretty sure the 5th gen SS 1LE and Boss 302LS were in production at the same time, which is what I was talking about. The host of H2H said they requested a Boss 302 for the video and were denied. Ford gave them a GT PP and it was absolutely demolished by the 1LE.

If I remember right, that video was done with their long term Z/28, so its not like they requested one from GM. They have done multiple videos with the 1LE option. They have said many times its one of the best handling packages available. The only ones that seem to think its a lower car is Ford, so they don't want their cars being beat.

[waterman]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Let's get this back on track out of respect for the forum.

Is the GT500 going to beat the ZLE around a track? My vote is "NO". A big fat "NO". I think GM built a car that is on a completely different level. It is designed for one purpose, the track. Which is why the suspension is not suitable for extended DD activity as expressed by most people.

Both stock, same driver same day on a road circuit, I agree.

GVW; with some saying 4200, a likely advantage to ZLE. It will be telling to see the final TQ numbers. If GT 500 weighs in over 4100, IMHO that will equalize the HP advantage depending on TQ #s.

With that said, HP and TQ advantage GT500. Note: That 2.75 Eaton sitting on top of a DOHC, even if it nestles nicely in the valley, will seriously move the forward center of gravity higher than the ZLE.

Chassis; Alpha vs. S550 no question, advantage ZLE. Suspension; DSSV is vastly superior to MRC in terms of predictability, stability and cornering (heck, Ford acknowledges that, see GT). These two factors alone may prove to be the biggest road course advantage.

Tires (again, we are talking stock); advantage ZLE. Cup 2s get greasy fast on a hot track and are good for a hero lap or two. 3Rs were engineered specifically for the car. 100TW be damned, 3Rs are seriously sticky lap after lap.

CF wheels (optional) and CF driveshaft are sexy, advantage GT500.

Transmission advantage goes to GT500, only because DCT is quicker (it does not however, fill my drivers soul). FWIW, Tremec 6060 is badass.

Diff; Advantage ZLE, IMO, ELSD will put the power down better and more predictably that the Torsen LSD, especially given the power levels that are available in these cars.

Brakes; Push, Brembo 3P/2P, slightly larger rotors on the 500... a fatter girl needs bigger brakes.

Is the GT500 going to beat the standard ZL1 around a track. I think it might. But my money is on the ZL1 as I am a fan and owner of one. I vote for the team I'm on. If the GT500 does beat the standard ZL1, then I think it'll be close. There is only soo much that these cars are capable of. And Ford would have to build something completely out of this world to beat the ZL1 and be priced competitively and be optioned well. I don't think that is gonna happen.

In a straight line I think it's obvious that the GT500 will beat the ZL1. It should tho. It has well over 50 more HP...probably closer to 100 more. If anything, this is what Frod should have focused on...beating the ZL1 in a straight line, keeping it close on a track...while beating the HC on a track and staying close to the RE in a straight line. Then put it in a package that is well optioned and dependable with adequate coolers, none of the engine issues that the rest of the S550 Mustangs suffered from, and decently priced. If Frod tried to take the whole cake or build half of a GT500 for straight line and then a race GT500 for something else, then I think both iterations will be nowhere near as well-balanced as the ZL1 is.

End of the day, the GT500 might win in one area with each version or whatever. But overall I think the ZL1 will still be the better buy, the better deal, and the better overall performer.

Good points. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think the Standard GT500 will beat the standard ZL1 in every measurable statistic including lap times. I think the GT500 much like last gen will use its power to over come the ZL1.

As far as the ZLE I don't know. I have long said I don't think the GT500 Carbon Pack would be able to chase down the ZLE, that car is just like you said on another level.

In another post you mentioned more cooling ability of the 500. GT500 only has eight, ZL1 utilizes 11 heat exchangers. Perhaps they are larger capacity exchanges on the 500, that equals more weight. A fair trade off? Hopefully for the higher revving, big blower Mustang, 8 is enough. Cooling; advantage ZLE.

Originally Posted by 13vertss

If that is true, that would put it faster then the R by a lot. So that would put msrp up near $80,000 as the gt500 is more loaded. Then add the track package, your flirting with $90,000. That’s a lot for a Mustang.

Exactly, which brings us to value. MSRP $79.9K, nicely optioned $89K+. With Ford dealer ADMs, fools will be paying WELL over $100K... Ouch!
Advantage ZLE.

Disclaimer; With no real world numbers available about the GT500, this is all speculation at this juncture.

[72MachOne99GT]

So 80,000 base.
Probably slower than a RedEye in a straight line.
90-95 with Track and CarbonFiber Package.
Doesn’t come close to 1LE.

Which version barely beats standard ZL1? Base GT500, or The 95,000 one?

Just curious what the consensus is.