[ember1205]

Originally Posted by gblaue

Splitting a USB cable is just going to cause you headaches. What I would do, is either unmount the USB connector in the center console, unbundle the wire in the harness, and reroute it to your glovebox. I'd bet that it may reach. Or, get a USB extension cord, plug it in you console, and route it to the glove box.

Why would it cause headaches? What I'm proposing is essentially the same as using a HUB, which converts a single connection into multiple connections through parallel wiring.

The only difference I would be creating is that I would be reducing the amount of power available across each individual port if I were to have all of the ports utilized. I have one 8GB USB stick that I leave connected in the console with music on it and use the second one for my phone. Adding a splitter and utilizing only two ports still would mean they would still work in exactly the same way with no degradation or loss of functionality.

The connector on the back side of the USB ports in the console isn't a standard USB-A connector and re-routing that wiring might be more than just a trivial affair to complete. It makes more sense to move closer to a 'source' location and split there with shorter overall runs.

[Gary H]

Originally Posted by gblaue

Splitting a USB cable is just going to cause you headaches. What I would do, is either unmount the USB connector in the center console, unbundle the wire in the harness, and reroute it to your glovebox. I'd bet that it may reach. Or, get a USB extension cord, plug it in you console, and route it to the glove box.

So my plan is to use the Amp Pro AP4 GM61 and use the Fibre Optic straight into an Audison audison forza ap f8.9 and then replace the speakers
Can you see any issues I may come across?

[Bumbleboy92]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Why would it cause headaches? What I'm proposing is essentially the same as using a HUB, which converts a single connection into multiple connections through parallel wiring.

The only difference I would be creating is that I would be reducing the amount of power available across each individual port if I were to have all of the ports utilized. I have one 8GB USB stick that I leave connected in the console with music on it and use the second one for my phone. Adding a splitter and utilizing only two ports still would mean they would still work in exactly the same way with no degradation or loss of functionality.

The connector on the back side of the USB ports in the console isn't a standard USB-A connector and re-routing that wiring might be more than just a trivial affair to complete. It makes more sense to move closer to a 'source' location and split there with shorter overall runs.

If it helps at all, this is my USB module opened up. Double stacked boards, one for the USB’s and one for the 3.5mm jack. I’m sure the 2020 is different with some saying they have room for a SD card but at least the connector seems to be a micro-B USB which you could just put a splitter in place of.

Ignore the discolored as my original module was fried lmao

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Bumbleboy92

If it helps at all, this is my USB module opened up. Double stacked boards, one for the USB’s and one for the 3.5mm jack. I’m sure the 2020 is different with some saying they have room for a SD card but at least the connector seems to be a micro-B USB which you could just put a splitter in place of.

Ignore the discolored as my original module was fried lmao

Thanks.

I had actually looked through your photos and couldn't determine one specific piece of data that I'm after - whether the connector containing the mini-usb plug that snaps on to the module has any other wiring that it carries or not. If it is completely by itself, then I agree that splitter would work there. They're a giant PITA to find, though, unless you want to wait a month to have it shipped in from China.

As I was contemplating doing exactly what you're describing, I had thought about just inserting a splitter into the source end of that cabling at the HMI end as that would also siginficantly decrease the amount of wiring to run and the risk of the wiring causing issues down the road. In the end, it doesn't matter if it's split at the beginning or at the end - it will work exactly the same. Splitting at the beginning potentially makes it easier and more reliable overall.

As an aside - yes there is a space for an SD CARD in my module, but that is "pre-filled" with the map database for the navigation.

[Bumbleboy92]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Thanks.

I had actually looked through your photos and couldn't determine one specific piece of data that I'm after - whether the connector containing the mini-usb plug that snaps on to the module has any other wiring that it carries or not. If it is completely by itself, then I agree that splitter would work there. They're a giant PITA to find, though, unless you want to wait a month to have it shipped in from China.

As I was contemplating doing exactly what you're describing, I had thought about just inserting a splitter into the source end of that cabling at the HMI end as that would also siginficantly decrease the amount of wiring to run and the risk of the wiring causing issues down the road. In the end, it doesn't matter if it's split at the beginning or at the end - it will work exactly the same. Splitting at the beginning potentially makes it easier and more reliable overall.

As an aside - yes there is a space for an SD CARD in my module, but that is "pre-filled" with the map database for the navigation.

I didn’t see the wires much but maybe you can, here’s my video from back when I had the console apart

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Bumbleboy92

I didn’t see the wires much but maybe you can, here’s my video from back when I had the console apart

For yours, it appears that it's an oversized plastic molded plug with just the mini-USB connector in it. I'll have to pull mine apart to see what it looks like since there are definitely some differences...

I'll probably try and take a look tomorrow. Lifting the console only takes five minutes (remove the knee pads, two bolts on each side up front, push the seats all the way forward, one more bolt on each side behind the covers, pop the rear seat up, and you can lift the console for access to the module). Once I get the module out and the wires unclipped, I'll be able to better tell what I might be dealing with for wiring.

UPDATE: It takes less than 20 minutes to remove the knee pads, the six screws, pop the rear seat, lift the console, disconnect the USB wire, and then put it all back together again. And, as I suspected, you do NOT need to unclip the shift boot to do any of this - that's only necessary if you're completely removing the console for some reason.

My USB connector is the same - a single mini-USB plug in a very large plug mold that clips into the module.

[turbo2ltr]

then I agree that splitter would work there

What is the difference between what you are calling a splitter and a USB hub? You can't just split USB.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by turbo2ltr

What is the difference between what you are calling a splitter and a USB hub? You can't just split USB.

Yes, you can split it. And, in essence, this is what a hub actually does.

Splitters are generally seen as a 1-to-2 device and hubs are a more generic 1-to-more device. Splitters wire the new connectors in parallel and this is how hubs work so that any connector in the chain can communicate back to the USB controller.

Any USB controller can theoretically control up to 127 unique devices on the wire, and each device uniquely identifies itself in the communications so that instructions go between the controller and the appropriate device. The shortcoming of USB is -power-. This is where hubs CAN be different in that they can add power to the wire as well as split the data signaling.

USB (like what is in our cars) is made up of two, 2-pair connections. On a standard USB-A type connector (like on your computer), the outer two pins carry the +5V power and the inner two pins are for data. In a hub, the power that's fed from the USB controller to operate the connected devices is either not carried through at all (a power adapter for the hub is required in order for devices to work unless they are self-powered) or the power carried over the USB cable is disconnected when a power adapter for the hub is connected.

[gblaue]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Why would it cause headaches? What I'm proposing is essentially the same as using a HUB, which converts a single connection into multiple connections through parallel wiring.

The only difference I would be creating is that I would be reducing the amount of power available across each individual port if I were to have all of the ports utilized. I have one 8GB USB stick that I leave connected in the console with music on it and use the second one for my phone. Adding a splitter and utilizing only two ports still would mean they would still work in exactly the same way with no degradation or loss of functionality.

The connector on the back side of the USB ports in the console isn't a standard USB-A connector and re-routing that wiring might be more than just a trivial affair to complete. It makes more sense to move closer to a 'source' location and split there with shorter overall runs.

Sorry, after listening to some people doing pretty dumb things, I assumed the worst. I assumed that you literally wanted to split the cable, and spice one in. I'm sorry. Unfortunately, I have been asked questions like that before.

Sounds like you've got this figured out. The wires going into the HMI will be in a larger GM US Car connector, not a USB connector

[turbo2ltr]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Yes, you can split it. And, in essence, this is what a hub actually does.

In essence, yes, in reality, no.
Yes, USB can *address* 127 devices per port, that doesn't mean you can directly connect 127 (or 2) devices to the same data pair. There is a physical layer you have to contend with. USB is a master-slave protocol. Unlike, say, CAN that is a "bus" designed to handle everyone talking at once, there is no data collision detection/ prioritization built in to the USB physical layer. Hubs provide the required isolation between the devices so the data doesn't collide and act as the master to the connected devices, and a slave to the host.

Any cable-only splitter you find will most likely be just a power tap. To properly split a USB connection, you need a hub, and the host device needs to understand how to talk to that hub. I suspect the IC on the USB module in the center console is exactly that, a USB hub controller.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by gblaue

Sorry, after listening to some people doing pretty dumb things, I assumed the worst. I assumed that you literally wanted to split the cable, and spice one in. I'm sorry. Unfortunately, I have been asked questions like that before.

Sounds like you've got this figured out. The wires going into the HMI will be in a larger GM US Car connector, not a USB connector

Ok. Thanks.

So, it would seem that I'll need to add the splitter at the console end of the wire since that is nothing but a mini-USB connector on a ridiculously oversized plug mold (see pic I took just now). I will see if I can find a mini-USB to mini-USB/USB-A splitter and then just run a USB-A extension from under the console to above the glove box. At the glove box, I may add a two port hub or USB-A splitter so that I could have both my phone and maybe a USB drive with music there instead of in the console.

Since my focus is to not use more than two ports at a time, this shouldn't cause any issues for me. Additionally, I have seen where some people have added very small USB hubs in the console without issue as well, so it would seem that the power availability would be ok anyhow.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by turbo2ltr

In essence, yes, in reality, no.
Yes, USB can *address* 127 devices per port, that doesn't mean you can directly connect 127 (or 2) devices to the same data pair. There is a physical layer you have to contend with. USB is a master-slave protocol. Unlike, say, CAN that is a "bus" designed to handle everyone talking at once, there is no data collision detection/ prioritization built in to the USB physical layer. Hubs provide the required isolation between the devices so the data doesn't collide and act as the master to the connected devices, and a slave to the host.

Any cable-only splitter you find will most likely be just a power tap. To properly split a USB connection, you need a hub, and the host device needs to understand how to talk to that hub. I suspect the IC on the USB module in the center console is exactly that, a USB hub controller.

This is not accurate.

Any integrated circuits in a hub are actually to control signaling so that the data is 'repeated' correctly downstream because of length limitations on the cabling that could limit how long of a run a data signal can traverse w/o faulting. Additionally, these circuits may also be used to regulate power delivery to the various ports as power is supposed to be delivered in 100mA "chunks" up to a max of 500mA (.5A). The hub itself is completely transparent from a data signaling perspective to the controller, and any data signals that come in from the controller are actually mirrored to all ports on the hub (much of why a USB hub is called a "hub" is because it operates in very much the same way as a network hub/repeater as it pertains to data signaling).

So, splitting a cable requires nothing special for data signaling but -could- lead to some quirks as it pertains to power if you attempt to over-draw the system.

[turbo2ltr]

"transparent" and "physically connected together" are not the same thing.
The controller isolates USB devices from hearing other USB devices as well as arbitrates when devices of different standards are connected and notifies the host of a new device. None of these things would happen if two ports were physically connected.

Please see the USB specification. http://sdphca.ucsd.edu/lab_equip_manuals/usb_20.pdf

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by turbo2ltr

"transparent" and "physically connected together" are not the same thing.
The controller isolates USB devices from hearing other USB devices as well as arbitrates when devices of different standards are connected and notifies the host of a new device. None of these things would happen if two ports were physically connected.

Please see the USB specification. http://sdphca.ucsd.edu/lab_equip_manuals/usb_20.pdf

I believe you're misinterpreting the standard. Yes, the WIRING is 1:1 in a hub to each device, but there is nothing (except for lack of "intelligence" on the part of the devices) that prevents them from communicating with one another. Since USB is a technology that requires the Host Controller to do all of the communicating / work, the ability for two devices to directly communicate without the host controller is nil because the end devices lack the capability to "understand" anything about the other device. But, there is no signaling restriction that prevents data bits from one device from moving through the whole inter-connected system. It's just that other devices ignore those data bits because there is nothing in them that they can do anything with since the bits aren't meant for them.