[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by shaffe

See my wife has an Explorer so one would think we should be able to make that compromise. My problem is I am an active person and my trunk in the summer is always loaded with with stuff. Mostly because I leave right from the office to go play lol. So Bat bag, ball bag, cleats and not as much this year but normally my golf bag as well. All that stuff fit in my S197 with no problem, and it all fits in my Focus' trunk now with no problem either. Now with the kid I can even fit the stroller and other stuff in the trunk while keeping my softball and golf bag in there(its super tight but it does all fit). The S550 trunk is actually slighty bigger than my Focus so I know I can fit all that stuff in there.

This is a very real concern for most. I am working very hard to find a way to have my little sports car, hopefully a 1LE, and a CUV or even a hatchback so I too can carry my ball bag without cramming it somewhere it doesn't quite fit. That plus the pup loves to play and swim, and having a hatch/cargo area in the back is the preference but even a 4-door would suffice! Finding a fun V8 car that combines all that is really tough, dare I say a Charger is the only option I can find that ticks all options in one package. So I am struggling to find a way to afford both vehicles as that's the preferred option.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

This is a very real concern for most. I am working very hard to find a way to have my little sports car, hopefully a 1LE, and a CUV or even a hatchback so I too can carry my ball bag without cramming it somewhere it doesn't quite fit. That plus the pup loves to play and swim, and having a hatch/cargo area in the back is the preference but even a 4-door would suffice! Finding a fun V8 car that combines all that is really tough, dare I say a Charger is the only option I can find that ticks all options in one package. So I am struggling to find a way to afford both vehicles as that's the preferred option.

Yeah a Charger would actually be the ideal vehicle, just don't know if I could own a dodge.

Even though I had previously blasted the vanilla looks of the Chevy SS, if I could find a low mileage one for the right price might go that route. Guy on my softball team has one and he absolutely raves about it.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

This is a very real concern for most. I am working very hard to find a way to have my little sports car, hopefully a 1LE, and a CUV or even a hatchback so I too can carry my ball bag without cramming it somewhere it doesn't quite fit. That plus the pup loves to play and swim, and having a hatch/cargo area in the back is the preference but even a 4-door would suffice! Finding a fun V8 car that combines all that is really tough, dare I say a Charger is the only option I can find that ticks all options in one package. So I am struggling to find a way to afford both vehicles as that's the preferred option.

I believe the gen7 will bring back a hatch to address the storage complaint. The patent images that are believed to be the CT5 show one so it’s baked into Alpha2 if that’s the case

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Every time the discussion goes to performance they like to go off track and start talking about sales, visibility, and trunk space. None of which matters even one bit. For as "horrible" as they claim the visibility to be, I drive mine just fine in all types of traffic and all hours of day and night. Trunk space, lol, I'll just use my Hellcat or my SUV if I need trunk space. Sales, well regardless of sales, GM doesn't seem to be sweating too much. They sell enough that GM turns enough of a profit to justify it's existence. Shit, the Mustang could sell 5 times as much as the Camaro, that doesn't mean GM still isn't making any money off the Camaro. Try telling that to a Mustang guy tho...

What's funny was the 1Le was faster around the track, AND in a straight line as well.

The manual Mustangs are dogs, period.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah a Charger would actually be the ideal vehicle, just don't know if I could own a dodge.

Even though I had previously blasted the vanilla looks of the Chevy SS, if I could find a low mileage one for the right price might go that route. Guy on my softball team has one and he absolutely raves about it.

Yeah, I do not like the interior of the Dodge and m not confident on quality either. I forgot about the SS. I checked those out too, and as you say they are hard to find in the right condition and price. Saw one on the road yesterday in fact, they look more aggressive in person and have more presence than I expected.

Originally Posted by hotlap

I believe the gen7 will bring back a hatch to address the storage complaint. The patent images that are believed to be the CT5 show one so it’s baked into Alpha2 if that’s the case

That looks like a great design inspiration so far too. I dont remember using the hatch much on my 5th gen, but I was in high school back then and had a sub box in the back too.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

What's funny was the 1Le was faster around the track, AND in a straight line as well.

The manual Mustangs are dogs, period.

Without nutty gearing and a world class tranny GM helped them develop they fall short. As simple as that

Now I wouldn’t call them dogs they just can’t compete with the lt1 motor to motor. Partially because of weight. Unless you do a race of 140+ when the 6gens m6 is in overdrive. But just because they fall to the mighty 6g doesn’t make them a dog necessarily

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Also a very fair point.



While I agree the sales part means nothing, the visibility and trunk space and basic DD ability of the car can mean a ton to a buyer on the fence. Take me as an example, I have said it numerous times. I can't even consider the Camaro as a choice because the trunk is too small, and I'm sure the wife wouldn't like driving it (she didn't like the visibility/driving position in my last Mustang can't imagine she'd like the Camaro but you never know) I know when one buys a car like this there are sacrifices to make in those DD type areas, but the Mustang is liveable with those sacrifices, in my situation the Camaro would not be and that sucks as a potential buyer. you yourself even say if I need to use the trunk or need space I have different vehicles for that. For someone like me that wouldn't have that option it sucks.

I am sure the Bullitt when it is done will become the "base" GT, Ford trickles down, but I think at this stage of the game GM is just better at it, or makes sure everything is the best it can be. Ford seems to try but just can't seem to get it right.

Visibility to me means nothing because all of us here and many others are driving these cars without so much as a second thought regarding the visibility. In fact, I love driving mine. The effective visibility, as I like to call it, is exactly the same as my Hellcat and the S550 GT I had. I mean that literally. The extra visibility I have in my Hellcat and had in my S550 GT have no effect on driving. It's a mind trick. Because you see less, you automatically think you can't see enough when there is still more than enough to operate the vehicle safely. I could show you PDR videos of me whipping this car all over the highway but I'd probably get in trouble.

As far as storage, I don't store anything at all in either of my cars. The only time I need the extra storage is when I go on vacation in which case I use the Hellcat. You simply cannot own any of these cars as a sole vehicle if you do not at least have access to a vehicle with adequate storage space. Maybe the Challenger Hellcat would be fine. Definitely the Charger Hellcat. But no on the Mustang and no on the Camaro. Granted the Mustang gas more storage space. But not by a whole hell of a lot.

If you're on the fence then these issues would persuade you to not buy a Camaro. Back when I saw the 6th Gen SS for the first time I criticized the visibility and interior and trunk space myself. But as soon as I got a call about the ZL1 all of those issues vanished and I never even considered them. Those of us who love these cars or really want one realize that none of these issues are bad at all. People who wanna criticize them or who are unsure would find it to be a bit unforgiving.

[oldman]

try starting a 440 six pack on a cold morning, or a DZ 302 with cross ram, it is near funny what we expect from the cars. Not that I don't understand, the Charger is a nice car and it really is a car...

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

What's funny was the 1Le was faster around the track, AND in a straight line as well.

The manual Mustangs are dogs, period.

The ratios in the ’18 mt82 are terribad for one thing.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Yeah, I do not like the interior of the Dodge and m not confident on quality either. I forgot about the SS. I checked those out too, and as you say they are hard to find in the right condition and price. Saw one on the road yesterday in fact, they look more aggressive in person and have more presence than I expected.



That looks like a great design inspiration so far too. I dont remember using the hatch much on my 5th gen, but I was in high school back then and had a sub box in the back too.

Yeah once I got to look up close at an SS my opinion did change, then when he hauled ass out of the park my opinion really changed haha. Need to get him to let me take it for a spin lol.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Visibility to me means nothing because all of us here and many others are driving these cars without so much as a second thought regarding the visibility. In fact, I love driving mine. The effective visibility, as I like to call it, is exactly the same as my Hellcat and the S550 GT I had. I mean that literally. The extra visibility I have in my Hellcat and had in my S550 GT have no effect on driving. It's a mind trick. Because you see less, you automatically think you can't see enough when there is still more than enough to operate the vehicle safely. I could show you PDR videos of me whipping this car all over the highway but I'd probably get in trouble.

As far as storage, I don't store anything at all in either of my cars. The only time I need the extra storage is when I go on vacation in which case I use the Hellcat. You simply cannot own any of these cars as a sole vehicle if you do not at least have access to a vehicle with adequate storage space. Maybe the Challenger Hellcat would be fine. Definitely the Charger Hellcat. But no on the Mustang and no on the Camaro. Granted the Mustang gas more storage space. But not by a whole hell of a lot.

If you're on the fence then these issues would persuade you to not buy a Camaro. Back when I saw the 6th Gen SS for the first time I criticized the visibility and interior and trunk space myself. But as soon as I got a call about the ZL1 all of those issues vanished and I never even considered them. Those of us who love these cars or really want one realize that none of these issues are bad at all. People who wanna criticize them or who are unsure would find it to be a bit unforgiving.

Yeah those are valid points on the visibility. The storage thing I will disagree with you on as I was able to make it work in my previous Mustang's. But who knows, still not the right time for me to buy right now so just day dreaming lol

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah once I got to look up close at an SS my opinion did change, then when he hauled ass out of the park my opinion really changed haha. Need to get him to let me take it for a spin lol.

Yeah, I looked them up again after we discussed it and they still hover aorund $40K. I think they are really neat, but would never spent $40K for a used one considering what else can be had at that price point.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Yeah, I looked them up again after we discussed it and they still hover aorund $40K. I think they are really neat, but would never spent $40K for a used one considering what else can be had at that price point.

Exactly and the ones that I have found in the mid 30s either have a ton of miles on them or not wild on the color lol

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Visibility to me means nothing because all of us here and many others are driving these cars without so much as a second thought regarding the visibility. In fact, I love driving mine. The effective visibility, as I like to call it, is exactly the same as my Hellcat and the S550 GT I had. I mean that literally. The extra visibility I have in my Hellcat and had in my S550 GT have no effect on driving. It's a mind trick. Because you see less, you automatically think you can't see enough when there is still more than enough to operate the vehicle safely. I could show you PDR videos of me whipping this car all over the highway but I'd probably get in trouble.

As far as storage, I don't store anything at all in either of my cars. The only time I need the extra storage is when I go on vacation in which case I use the Hellcat. You simply cannot own any of these cars as a sole vehicle if you do not at least have access to a vehicle with adequate storage space. Maybe the Challenger Hellcat would be fine. Definitely the Charger Hellcat. But no on the Mustang and no on the Camaro. Granted the Mustang gas more storage space. But not by a whole hell of a lot.

If you're on the fence then these issues would persuade you to not buy a Camaro. Back when I saw the 6th Gen SS for the first time I criticized the visibility and interior and trunk space myself. But as soon as I got a call about the ZL1 all of those issues vanished and I never even considered them. Those of us who love these cars or really want one realize that none of these issues are bad at all. People who wanna criticize them or who are unsure would find it to be a bit unforgiving.

All good points.

This is why I would emphasize to anyone thinking about a Camaro to take it out for a test drive. If they still have doubts, then it's probably a good idea to move on. It's not like everyone will fall in love once they get in. I myself had some reservations when I first sat in one at in a showroom. It's only when I took one for a spin, that my perspective totally changed.

Obviously, the beaten-to-death visibility topic will never end. The habit I've developed over the years of quickly glancing over my shoulder when changing lanes is the main reason the higher belt line has not been a hindrance. That and proper mirror adjustment has kept my situational awareness as effective as in any other car. Rear pillar? Not a problem. It's just not big enough to hide a vehicle, unless it's a smart car. Its hindrance is a gross over exaggeration IMO.

Yes, the high beltline will make parking a little challenging at first, but it's no different from owning a large SUV or truck. It takes a little time to get used to at first, unless the driver's abilities are limited. It's like a hammer. One guy will take 10 swings to bury a nail, another with the same hammer, will take two or tree. Is the hammer the problem?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

All good points.

This is why I would emphasize to anyone thinking about a Camaro to take it out for a test drive. If they still have doubts, then it's probably a good idea to move on. It's not like everyone will fall in love once they get in. I myself had some reservations when I first sat in one at in a showroom. It's only when I took one for a spin, that my perspective totally changed.

Obviously, the beaten-to-death visibility topic will never end. The habit I've developed over the years of quickly glancing over my shoulder when changing lanes is the main reason the higher belt line has not been a hindrance. That and proper mirror adjustment has kept my situational awareness as effective as in any other car. Rear pillar? Not a problem. It's just not big enough to hide a vehicle, unless it's a smart car. Its hindrance is a gross over exaggeration IMO.

Yes, the high beltline will make parking a little challenging at first, but it's no different from owning a large SUV or truck. It takes a little time to get used to at first, unless the driver's abilities are limited. It's like a hammer. One guy will take 10 swings to bury a nail, another with the same hammer, will take two or tree. Is the hammer the problem?