[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

^^ Dare I say a fair review..ouch.

The A10 is too slushy when not in sport+ or drag. Sport+ is how it should be standard, but I guess thats why they give you modes to choose.

Well hopefully I didn't sound like I was criticizing the A10 GT...although maybe I was. Force of habit. LOL!! The A10 GT is very fast. When I test drove the 2010 SS I was impressed. But I was coming from a bolt-on New Edge GT. When I test drove the S550 GT I bought it did not impress me but I enjoyed the car. That was coming from a FBO SS. When I test drove the ZL1 coming from a bolt-on 15 GT and FBO 10 SS it was very impressive. Test driving my Hellcat from the ZL1 was likewise impressive. Well, everything except for the handling. But now I'm coming from a Hellcat and a ZL1 to test drive the 18 GT. So I do think that some of the things I said was a bit unfair of me. But I will tell you this. For a split second, just a second, when I did that 40 MPH pull, just for a second, I was like "WTF is this thing on", LOL!! If I was coming from where I was a year and a half ago to the 18 GT, then I probably would have walked out of there with the car or at least looked for a day or two for one with some options. But to be sincere, comparing it to my ZL1 and Hellcat, the GT is NOT a bad car at all. Not by any means.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Very fair and honest review Blaq.

Yea I think I'm starting to come around, lol!! Before you know it I'll be over on M6G talking shit about everyone over here, lol!! Honestly tho, Ford did an excellent job. I kinda wonder what would have happened if Ford had did this in 2015 and put it all in a better handling package and gave it more/better options. Or if they had put the A10 trans into the Shelby as an option. But I digress. I don't think anyone would be disappointed with either the GT or SS these days. Straight line performance they are just about evenly matched. If the PP2 can match the 1LE and if the GT500 comes out swinging for the fences then I think Ford will have redeemed themselves (although late in the game) and just might take the win for the last couple years of the S550 VS 6th Gen battle.

Originally Posted by Koldunic

The 2018 GT definitively sound better than the S550.

It actually sound great.

It sounds like it has an aftermarket exhaust. During the test drive the salesman asked me "do you think it has an exhaust on it?". I told him it had the active exhaust and explained it to him. But man did it roar in the cabin. My biggest concern would be drone if doing an aftermarket exhaust tho.

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

Good detailed review. I don't think it would take an SS at 40 mph though. Higher, yes, it would start to walk way but only the A10. The manual, no. It's funny how most only focus on the A10. Except for the MT82 issues, hardly anyone talks about manual performance wise.

Still, I'd like to test one out to see what the big hoopla is. I know the lack of low end grunt would be a big turn off, but it would be interesting to get a firsthand perspective.

Well the last time I drve a 6th Gen SS was over a year ago so I might not fully remember how it felt. But I do know that these DOHC engines live up top. My GT was a monster from 4K RPMs after I did mods to it. And this thing honestly felt faster. And I didn't even get on it all the way to redline. I'd say try to test drive one. Again, if you're coming from the perspective of having a car on the same level or even something a bit slower then I think you'll be impressed. But if you're coming from something faster it won't really impress you but it'll sure as hell surprise you a bit, lol!!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

If by "holding its own" you mean losing to any comparable auto , then yes it sure can.

bottom line is this... manual transmissions are becoming a hindrance to the performance potential of performance cars and in a game where you are constantly trying to put up better numbers than your competition it will at some point either be phased out entirely or be offered as an option for purists, but at some point the bean counters will put an end to that. Enjoy it while you can.

Yea M6s are becoming a hindrance just like standard fuel injection is, in a way. But so is RWD. AWD is where it's at these days. And it won't be until either GM, Ford, or FCA introduces AWD in one of their V8 Muscle Cars and blows everyone else away that people will start to realize that.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

If by "holding its own" you mean losing to any comparable auto , then yes it sure can.

bottom line is this... manual transmissions are becoming a hindrance to the performance potential of performance cars and in a game where you are constantly trying to put up better numbers than your competition it will at some point either be phased out entirely or be offered as an option for purists, but at some point the bean counters will put an end to that. Enjoy it while you can.

Yes and no. The manual offers driver engagement that no automatic can match, you become part of the car. You are driving the car and not the other way around. Will it be a tick slower, yes, will it be a pain to drive in traffic, yes. Will it be more fun in any spirited driving venue, it sure will.

This all being said there are certain cars which I think are just better off with an automatic, the Challenger being one of them.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

If by "holding its own" you mean losing to any comparable auto , then yes it sure can.

bottom line is this... manual transmissions are becoming a hindrance to the performance potential of performance cars and in a game where you are constantly trying to put up better numbers than your competition it will at some point either be phased out entirely or be offered as an option for purists, but at some point the bean counters will put an end to that. Enjoy it while you can.

Actually in a roll race, a manual SS driver that knows what he's doing, can walk the auto. I'd post videos, but they're all street racing. And from a dig the difference isn't that big, but the manual driver must get it right. That's part of the fun though... trying to get it right.

For me, performance was never the primary reason for getting the m6. I knew it tested slower going in. However, getting an auto was simply out of the question.

I drove slushboxes for years, but they were always boring and I'd end up using manual mode 100% of the time. So, I moved to an m6 11 years ago and have no desire to ever change. Whether I get beat or not is irrelevant. If they go away, I might have to look to the used market as long as I'm able.

Someone who does not enjoy rowing, will never understand and the debate will rage on forever. When I hear people complain about traffic, it's a clear indication they're not really into driving a manual. The same with a person that switches to an auto and claims they don't miss rowing. They either chose it because it was cheaper, or assumed they'd magically get better performance. The bottom line is, you have to put in the work and enjoy doing it.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

For me, performance was never the primary reason for getting the m6. I knew it tested slower going in. However, getting an auto was simply out of the question.



Someone who does not enjoy rowing, will never understand and the debate will rage on forever. When I hear people complain about traffic, it's a clear indication they're not really into driving a manual. The same with a person that switches to an auto and claims they don't miss rowing. They either chose it because it was cheaper, or assumed they'd magically get better performance. The bottom line is, you have to put in the work and enjoy doing it.

Thank you for backing up everything I said. You are a manual purist and that is fine, but wont change the fact that the current gen of autos are as good or better than manuals at everything from a strictly performance standpoint and they will continue to get better in the future through more advanced software and technology advances while also offering an increasingly more engaging manual experience. Manuals are at a dead end.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Yes and no. The manual offers driver engagement that no automatic can match, you become part of the car. You are driving the car and not the other way around. Will it be a tick slower, yes, will it be a pain to drive in traffic, yes. Will it be more fun in any spirited driving venue, it sure will.

This all being said there are certain cars which I think are just better off with an automatic, the Challenger being one of them.

you said yes and no....where's the no part? I stipulated that the manuals only "advantage" is in its driver engagement...but autos will encroach on this in the future.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Thank you for backing up everything I said. You are a manual purist and that is fine, but wont change the fact that the current gen of autos are as good or better than manuals at everything from a strictly performance standpoint and they will continue to get better in the future through more advanced software and technology advances while also offering an increasingly more engaging manual experience. Manuals are at a dead end.

Performance wise sure, we mostly agree there. However the part in bold I disagree with. Flipping a paddle or moving a lever back forth will never be as engaging as having to operate a clutch in tandem.

I would agree that shift quality and response time are improving in the slushboxes. But still, the only user input in 'manual' mode is a paddle flip or lever pull/push. And that action is not changing anytime soon.

I still have 5-10 years to worry about the manual's demise.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well hopefully I didn't sound like I was criticizing the A10 GT...although maybe I was. Force of habit. LOL!! The A10 GT is very fast. When I test drove the 2010 SS I was impressed. But I was coming from a bolt-on New Edge GT. When I test drove the S550 GT I bought it did not impress me but I enjoyed the car. That was coming from a FBO SS. When I test drove the ZL1 coming from a bolt-on 15 GT and FBO 10 SS it was very impressive. Test driving my Hellcat from the ZL1 was likewise impressive. Well, everything except for the handling. But now I'm coming from a Hellcat and a ZL1 to test drive the 18 GT. So I do think that some of the things I said was a bit unfair of me. But I will tell you this. For a split second, just a second, when I did that 40 MPH pull, just for a second, I was like "WTF is this thing on", LOL!! If I was coming from where I was a year and a half ago to the 18 GT, then I probably would have walked out of there with the car or at least looked for a day or two for one with some options. But to be sincere, comparing it to my ZL1 and Hellcat, the GT is NOT a bad car at all. Not by any means.

Yea I think I'm starting to come around, lol!! Before you know it I'll be over on M6G talking shit about everyone over here, lol!! Honestly tho, Ford did an excellent job. I kinda wonder what would have happened if Ford had did this in 2015 and put it all in a better handling package and gave it more/better options. Or if they had put the A10 trans into the Shelby as an option. But I digress. I don't think anyone would be disappointed with either the GT or SS these days. Straight line performance they are just about evenly matched. If the PP2 can match the 1LE and if the GT500 comes out swinging for the fences then I think Ford will have redeemed themselves (although late in the game) and just might take the win for the last couple years of the S550 VS 6th Gen battle.

It sounds like it has an aftermarket exhaust. During the test drive the salesman asked me "do you think it has an exhaust on it?". I told him it had the active exhaust and explained it to him. But man did it roar in the cabin. My biggest concern would be drone if doing an aftermarket exhaust tho.

Well the last time I drve a 6th Gen SS was over a year ago so I might not fully remember how it felt. But I do know that these DOHC engines live up top. My GT was a monster from 4K RPMs after I did mods to it. And this thing honestly felt faster. And I didn't even get on it all the way to redline. I'd say try to test drive one. Again, if you're coming from the perspective of having a car on the same level or even something a bit slower then I think you'll be impressed. But if you're coming from something faster it won't really impress you but it'll sure as hell surprise you a bit, lol!!

hahaha! I am glad to see that you feel Ford has finally caught up. And for you to say it felt fast, when you have a Hellcat and a ZL1 I think Ford/Owners would take that as a compliment. With the way you said the car pulled from a roll, I can see why a lot of people think it's faster than it is. I mean most average people on the street arent stomping on it from a dig at a light, they will be hitting the loud pedal already moving and it seems like that keeps the Coyote in its sweet spot based on your review.

What I honestly think happened with Ford finally catching up, is that they got caught with their pants down at how good the Alpha Camaro is. I honestly believe they expected it to be good, but I don't think they expected it to be as good as it was, hence the pretty substantial mechanical changes for a face lift.

[torqueaddict]

Hate to beat a dead horse, but this is a funny video.



After claiming how reliable his MT82 is, it breaks mid video (around 7.33). I enjoy his vids despite him being a staunch Ford fanboy.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

Performance wise sure, we mostly agree there. However the part in bold I disagree with. Flipping a paddle or moving a lever back forth will never be as engaging as having to operate a clutch in tandem.

I would agree that shift quality and response time are improving in the slushboxes. But still, the only user input in 'manual' mode is a paddle flip or lever pull/push. And that action is not changing anytime soon.

I still have 5-10 years to worry about the manual's demise.

Manuals will always have the left leg pump over autos for sure, but I doubt that will be the thing that leaves people claiming a manual is more engaging in the future. Working a good set of paddles or a shift knob is a wash for me in terms of engagement as long as the auto is tuned for crisp quick shifts.

Personally I think the autos will get so good at determining what gear to be in for a given scenario based on telemetry programming that the need for paddles will only be to placate the ex-manual crowd

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Manuals will always have the left leg pump over autos for sure, but I doubt that will be the thing that leaves people claiming a manual is more engaging in the future. Working a good set of paddles or a shift knob is a wash for me in terms of engagement as long as the auto is tuned for crisp quick shifts.

Personally I think the autos will get so good at determining what gear to be in for a given scenario based on telemetry programming that the need for paddles will only be to placate the ex-manual crowd

I doubt manual purists will ever be satisfied with an auto in any form. It's just that they are declining in numbers and will eventually disappear altogether as more autos flood the market.

While there are many reasons for this decline, I believe it's the younger drivers' lack of exposure to the manual that's the main one. Not necessary its lack of performance vs an auto.

New cars coming with manuals will eventually cease, maybe even sooner than later (although I'm not totally convinced), however, manuals will live on for a long time in the aftermarket and used car sectors.

[Deakins]

As long as there is road racing there will be manuals. Properly cooling an automatic transmission in a way that's adequate on a 95* day over the course of a 30 min run with a system that will also work in the dead of winter is very difficult if not impossible...it's the same reason why our engine oil temps get so high even though it has a "cooler".

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Manuals will always have the left leg pump over autos for sure, but I doubt that will be the thing that leaves people claiming a manual is more engaging in the future. Working a good set of paddles or a shift knob is a wash for me in terms of engagement as long as the auto is tuned for crisp quick shifts.

Personally I think the autos will get so good at determining what gear to be in for a given scenario based on telemetry programming that the need for paddles will only be to placate the ex-manual crowd

Yup. There are a few automakers who already have transmissions that can use GPS to know that there is a hill or a curve coming and then alter shifts to prepare for them.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

I doubt manual purists will ever be satisfied with an auto in any form. It's just that they are declining in numbers and will eventually disappear altogether as more autos flood the market.

While there are many reasons for this decline, I believe it's the younger drivers' lack of exposure to the manual that's the main one. Not necessary its lack of performance vs an auto.

New cars coming with manuals will eventually cease, maybe even sooner than later (although I'm not totally convinced), however, manuals will live on for a long time in the aftermarket and used car sectors.

Not true, but the TYPE of auto is the important part. While Slush boxes have come a long way and are as quick as a dual clutch on the up shift, they still can not compare on the downshift or the reaction time from the time you click the paddle to the time the shift actually happens.

If you take a someone who only has known a manual and give them the new autos and they are open minded, they will be thoroughly impressed.

HOWEVER...

You put someone who has experienced a dual clutch tranny (Audi BMW, Porsche) and the slush boxes can not match up when taken as a whole. In the up shift, yes, everywhere else, NOPE.

After having an Audi and BMW dual clutch, the only other acceptable option for me is a rev matching manual.

Given the option between a rev matching manual and a dual clutch, I will take the dual clutch every time. However given the choice of a slush box and a rev matching manual, I would take the manual everytime.