[GunMetalGrey]

Hi, This is all in the context of tracking the car (20 minute sessions with heat soak being the enemy) and having only 91 octane available

What are your thoughts on adding Meth to pick up 25 or so HP I’m leaving on the table with 91 octane and for cooling purposes (I’m not sure how much it would help combat heat soak) if I’m not tuning the car for the meth to pick up more Hp?
The reason I ask this (purposely Leaving that extra HP off the table) is because I don’t like the idea of tuning a car for something, that if/when fails can have catastrophic results (Some tuners like Jannetty Racing are reluctant to use it...) and I would assume I’d still be picking up a few Hp (maybe 25) without even tuning for it because of the low octane I have.

Thoughts on the value of doing this and if it would be worth it?

[HorsePowerAddicts]

Your apprehension to using it is warranted, but using a quality system with proper install has the similar likelihood of failure as a low side fuel system pump going bad. Low concern. Either way, failure could be catastrophic if the a meth. injection pump or fuel pump fails. There are ways to minimize loss, but risk of using the parts is always there.

Pure Methanol injection (VP M1), not mix or varied versions, is an excellent addition to any forced induction car. It is a supplemental fuel system, not a crutch, and has cooling properties which are amazing. Multiple benefits from meth for sure.

We would not suggest it for any road race or HPDE car. Even with a progressive system it is difficult to calculate the amount used through a session, and elevates the risks of going low, especially if your Gs are pulling meth away from the pump when volume is low. Which is also why using it without boost/rpm dependent tuning is not worth the adventure.

[Markoz28]

I have wondered this myself. Is there any advantage to running a meth injection without tuning for it? My question is based more on street strip as there is no tracks close to me or within 300 miles of me.

Any how, what HPA just commented makes so much sense. Just wanted to see if the same would apply to the street?

[BMWM.D.]

So is this car otherwise stock? I’d think a small nozzle with a 50/50 mix (or less even) would be quite safe and effective as long as it doesn’t run so rich that it costs power. That might be tough if the car is on the stock tune, as they can run pretty rich when COT kicks in.

Even something like pure water injection could be an option. Water injection is a factory installed feature on the M4 GTS, and it’s worth about 40 hp on those cars. That’s spraying distilled water only. I don’t really see any downside to that.

[staples87]

Originally Posted by Markoz28

I have wondered this myself. Is there any advantage to running a meth injection without tuning for it? My question is based more on street strip as there is no tracks close to me or within 300 miles of me.

Any how, what HPA just commented makes so much sense. Just wanted to see if the same would apply to the street?

You could run a single small nozzle of 50/50 (50% water with 50% methanol) in the intake for cooling benefits. The only problem is that methanol usually richens the air/fuel mixture, which can result in lost power if it goes too rich. If you run a small enough nozzle with a progressive spray, you would probably be just fine.

I would still dial it in on the Dyno though to keep track of the air fuel.

[staples87]

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

So is this car otherwise stock? I’d think a small nozzle with a 50/50 mix (or less even) would be quite safe and effective as long as it doesn’t run so rich that it costs power. That might be tough if the car is on the stock tune, as they can run pretty rich when COT kicks in.

Even something like pure water injection could be an option. Water injection is a factory installed feature on the M4 GTS, and it’s worth about 40 hp on those cars. That’s spraying distilled water only. I don’t really see any downside to that.

You beat me to it!

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by HorsePowerAddicts

Your apprehension to using it is warranted, but using a quality system with proper install has the similar likelihood of failure as a low side fuel system pump going bad. Low concern. Either way, failure could be catastrophic if the a meth. injection pump or fuel pump fails. There are ways to minimize loss, but risk of using the parts is always there.

Pure Methanol injection (VP M1), not mix or varied versions, is an excellent addition to any forced induction car. It is a supplemental fuel system, not a crutch, and has cooling properties which are amazing. Multiple benefits from meth for sure.

We would not suggest it for any road race or HPDE car. Even with a progressive system it is difficult to calculate the amount used through a session, and elevates the risks of going low, especially if your Gs are pulling meth away from the pump when volume is low. Which is also why using it without boost/rpm dependent tuning is not worth the adventure.

Thanks for the info, so to clarify, as good as the Pure Methanol injection (VP M1) is you would not recommend it because of the application, tracking the car, correct? I’m not sure what HPDE stands for...

Do you offer a kit that only sprays water?
And would it still give me the boost in HP that I leaving on the table by only having 91 octane? Does water help cool the SC as well as meth?

I wasn’t very clear in my original post because I know very little about this, but I should have said water or meth.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Markoz28

I have wondered this myself. Is there any advantage to running a meth injection without tuning for it? My question is based more on street strip as there is no tracks close to me or within 300 miles of me.

Any how, what HPA just commented makes so much sense. Just wanted to see if the same would apply to the street?

Sounds like it would be good for you and not for me, unless I’m mistaken , because you are using it for street/Drag where as I am using it for street/track sessions, at least that’s what I’m getting from this...

Are you limited to 91 octane like me?

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

So is this car otherwise stock? I’d think a small nozzle with a 50/50 mix (or less even) would be quite safe and effective as long as it doesn’t run so rich that it costs power. That might be tough if the car is on the stock tune, as they can run pretty rich when COT kicks in.

Even something like pure water injection could be an option. Water injection is a factory installed feature on the M4 GTS, and it’s worth about 40 hp on those cars. That’s spraying distilled water only. I don’t really see any downside to that.

Yes it is otherwise stock, but I plan on Porting the SC, addding CAI, 103mm TB, Headers and Tune to keep stock boost and avoid increasing any heat while adding 70whp to 100whp.

Great point about that M4, I know very little about this subject and didn’t know different levels of water and meth could be used. If I’d known that, my original post would have said water or meth, I’m not stuck on one or the other or both, just what ever would be most beneficial with least risk and it sounds like pure water is the safest option with very little risk... would it still give me the boost in HP that I leaving on the table by only having 91 octane? Does water help cool the SC as well as meth?

I’ve heard Aqua Mist from the UK has a very high end kit available

[Markoz28]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Sounds like it would be good for you and not for me, unless I’m mistake , because you are using it for street/Drag where as I am using it for street/track sessions, at least that’s what I’m getting for this...

Are you limited to 91 octane like me?

No, we have 93 here thank God!

Meth injection sounds so promising but I don’t feel I have enough info to be confident in it yet.

[JDP Sales]

We can see your concerns about using meth and messing with the fuel system but we can also testify the amazing results a meth kit can add to the car. Methanol injection is a highly efficient chemical intercooler. By injecting methanol into the inlet of a supercharged car, intake air temperatures (IAT’s) can be reduced by more than 80% (depending on ambient air temperatures) and allow your tuner to run more timing and therefore making more HP. Secondly, Methanol burns at the equivalent of 110 octane fuel, effectively halting detonation that can be present with lower octane fuels. Methanol works to keep your engine cleaner, and helps remove carbon deposits that can form on the pistons, which can effective change engine compression and combustion properties.

Alky control has one of the best kits out on the market! Give either us or them a call if you have any other concerns.

Cheers,

Kayla L.
801.545.4215

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by JDP Sales

We can see your concerns about using meth and messing with the fuel system but we can also testify the amazing results a meth kit can add to the car. Methanol injection is a highly efficient chemical intercooler. By injecting methanol into the inlet of a supercharged car, intake air temperatures (IAT’s) can be reduced by more than 80% (depending on ambient air temperatures) and allow your tuner to run more timing and therefore making more HP. Secondly, Methanol burns at the equivalent of 110 octane fuel, effectively halting detonation that can be present with lower octane fuels. Methanol works to keep your engine cleaner, and helps remove carbon deposits that can form on the pistons, which can effective change engine compression and combustion properties.

Alky control has one of the best kits out on the market! Give either us or them a call if you have any other concerns.

Cheers,

Kayla L.
801.545.4215

Hi and thanks, was your response directed to Markoz28 or myself or both of us?
In other words, you recommend it for street / drag racing or tracking or both?

How much would using water instead of meth reduce IAT by?
Would I use the same kit/system if just spraying/injecting water not meth?

[BMWM.D.]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Yes it is otherwise stock, but I plan on Porting the SC, addding CAI, 103mm TB, Headers and Tune to keep stock boost and avoid increasing any heat while adding 70whp to 100whp.

Great point about that M4, I know very little about this subject and didn’t know different levels of water and meth could be used. If I’d known that, my original post would have said water or meth, I’m not stuck on one or the other or both, just what ever would be most beneficial with least risk and it sounds like pure water is the safest option with very little risk... would it still give me the boost in HP that I leaving on the table by only having 91 octane? Does water help cool the SC as well as meth?

I’ve heard Aqua Mist from the UK has a very high end kit available

I’ve always used Alky Control, though I know they aren’t the most modern system out there. Everything is stainless steel and well made, which is a big plus from a safety standpoint. I’ve ran 100% M1 in cars before, and that stuff is super flammable.

You’re going to get different opinions on water/meth ratios. 50/50 is popular and a lot less dangerous vs pure methanol. Methanol provides a bunch of octane, but doesn’t really have the cylinder cooling effect that water does. There’s a whole bunch to consider. While water injection doesn’t add any octane, it provides cylinder cooling and knock suppression.

For me, it’s always been a balance of nozzle sizing and water/meth mixture. Methanol is fuel, which means that if you’re spraying a lot, your tuner is going to have to remove fuel to compensate. I don’t like to do it that way, as you can go lean if the meth system fails. And if you’re dialing in extra timing at the same time, that can be bad.

On my LS builds, I’ve typically tuned at a normal lambda (say 11.8), then added enough meth to make it about a point richer (10.8-11.0). If I were you, I’d look at a smaller nozzle and a 50/50 mixture like Snow’s Boost Juice. Use the injection system to allow full timing. There are many ways to do this safely. I’ve never tried straight water on a PD blower application, so I can’t tell you how that would work. I’m sure BMW used only distilled water for emissions reasons. I don’t think you can sell a new car spraying methanol these days.

[hammdo]

I have ProMeth on mine -- 5th Gen LSA 416 Forged, 2.45 upper, 18% lower, ported blower/snout, E85 + meth (50% Boost Juice) -- and I road race with it.

I have 2 tunes -- one for road course (progressive for WOT, fueling not tuned for meth) and one for street (Tuned to MAF hertz, progressive with meth).

With the road course tune, I can safely rely on the cooling using meth (although, I have a tone of cooling and IAT2s stay below timing pull -- even with temps in the 100's here in Texas). I've found it to be a great addition -- and I have a 4 gallon tank for just meth!

My ProMeth setup starts here:

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showt...85577&page=154

Details how Mark and myself tuned for meth...

Rodney @ ProMeth worked with me to get the right setup and custom designed the kit for me -- really love mine...

-Don