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Old 02-14-2020, 09:27 AM   #29
IneedAZ


 
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I guess, i could do option C and do both 2650 and cam at same time and hold off on doing the drag pack. That way i am not paying for labor and tuning twice. As others have mentioned, i have to be concerned with fueling. I will not run meth. With my goals of 9.7-9.9 range i am thinking it could be done with 750rwhp.

So, with those goals in mind, could i get by with a cam with decent fuel lobe and a low side pump upgrade or will i still need to do more fueling than that. I don't want to stress the system. Dependent transportation is a must, so if i have to do other fueling, i am interested to know. I know 800hp+ injectors, and HPFP, etc need to be done, but with my goals, its a gray area to me.
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:39 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES View Post
4 ways to build a fuel system 3 logical choices for fuel unless you want to be meth dependent and or race gas dependent!

From cheapest to most expensive...

Cam or your choice with the 38% fuel lobe/7.85mm fuel lobe
LT4 Fuel Parts
Meth/Race Gas
DSX/SMG low side Aux
DSX Flex kit or SMG
Obvious choice for most since its the cheapest upfront cost.

Cam with 8.2mm lobe
FIC injectors/lingenfelter/XDI size of your choice 30, 45, 60
lingenfelter Big Bore pump (spaced correctly)
Return style low side with 100 psi and load of 80 psi never dropping off
Free flowing ck valve in the new feed line
DSX Flex kit or SMG

Port Injection by Crawford Racing or others if blower allows it and some type of ecu to run it w wide band.
DSX Flex kit or SMG

XDI katech System
Low side with 100 psi/80psi under load
DSX Flex kit or SMG

I really don't like to put a HP number on it because the power adder can move that number around depending on how much air its moving at the same psi as others and things like how much HP is spent to make that psi sum it in 1 word efficiency of your power adder.

I'd weigh in the ported blower vs the 2650 the only way to do this is try to max out the 1.7L to what the 2650 can do using about 50% of what its capable of doing with its better efficiency. Let's use a dollar amount and IAT's to compare with for a 800 rwhp goal

Not going to list headers, TBs, Aux pumps, or CAI you need that regardless of your direction..

$999-$1300 plus ship maybe a box charge Ported blower (full tilt 45hp mambo jambo)
$395-$1300 Heat exchanger(ADM, AFCO, ProSpeed, Wp X, PLM
$500-$1000 Larger Reservoir for capacity and better intercooler pump
$800 to $1200 Meth kit
$250 Griptec pulley
$600 ATI damper and Blower ring
$XXXX CAM


I can't see spending that ^ to do what the 2650 and a cam can do on 93 only! (plus you can subtract 1500 to 2000 selling your oem blower)

next you need to Factor the 2650s..

$5995 plus 200 for a snout for the Maggi
$4800 plus 1275 for porting However usually a 500 off from Edelbrock or 500 off with a 10% code from Summit Racing..

You don't have to port the eforce of course unless you going all out but, Mike(magunson) mentions there's is ported from the factory so if we are going to compare everything lets do it you can clearly see Stock to Stock how much area is opened up compared to the Eforce, But, once the Eforce is ported its opening is larger than the maggi's.

See pic left Side Edelbrock ported and stock, right side Maggi.. Doing the porting picks up 100hp and lowers the IATs to the same or better than the maggi's. It's not the bricks so much as the velocity and flow.. faster air speed over the IAT sensor will lower the temps.. This is the same ares that's massaged on the oem blowers by Kong and jokerz along with the snouts. They really clean it up and make them flow more and the oem blowers are now more efficient if you don't over spin them lol..

Seems like most i see are 32% cam lobe and few with 38%. Since i don't plan to do a converter, do you know if its possible to have them spec the cam with the larger lobe but still have good street manners and not need the converter plus still hear the lope at idle. I know some go for stealth, but i like the lope.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:12 AM   #31
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:46 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IneedAZ View Post
I guess, i could do option C and do both 2650 and cam at same time and hold off on doing the drag pack. That way i am not paying for labor and tuning twice. As others have mentioned, i have to be concerned with fueling. I will not run meth. With my goals of 9.7-9.9 range i am thinking it could be done with 750rwhp.

So, with those goals in mind, could i get by with a cam with decent fuel lobe and a low side pump upgrade or will i still need to do more fueling than that. I don't want to stress the system. Dependent transportation is a must, so if i have to do other fueling, i am interested to know. I know 800hp+ injectors, and HPFP, etc need to be done, but with my goals, its a gray area to me.
Why no meth? I always thought of that to be a safe effective solution.
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IneedAZ View Post
Seems like most i see are 32% cam lobe and few with 38%. Since i don't plan to do a converter, do you know if its possible to have them spec the cam with the larger lobe but still have good street manners and not need the converter plus still hear the lope at idle. I know some go for stealth, but i like the lope.

The fuel lobe should change nothing with the cam profile.. if you could swing the 8.2 lobe and LPE pump for now use the stock injectors for now and spend money on the 2650 could make some really good power on pump gas. Still need to address low side
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:49 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES View Post
The fuel lobe should change nothing with the cam profile.. if you could swing the 8.2 lobe and LPE pump for now use the stock injectors for now and spend money on the 2650 could make some really good power on pump gas. Still need to address low side
I would prefer an aftermarket replacement for the low side into the stock location. I really dont want to tap the tank for a second pump if possible.

Is there one available that produces more than the 10% one that I have seen?
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2017 HyperBlue ZL1 A10 ** Born 3/17/17**Delivered 4/08/17

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Old 02-14-2020, 07:44 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IneedAZ View Post
I would prefer an aftermarket replacement for the low side into the stock location. I really dont want to tap the tank for a second pump if possible.

Is there one available that produces more than the 10% one that I have seen?
All the parts together provide 40% increase its 10% using the OEM lobe only w the big bore pump.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:12 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IneedAZ View Post
I would prefer an aftermarket replacement for the low side into the stock location. I really dont want to tap the tank for a second pump if possible.

Is there one available that produces more than the 10% one that I have seen?
Yes, a company called Fore sells in-tank assemblies with multiple pumps, costly though.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:25 AM   #37
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Yes.. 2600 for fore and Crawfords kit. I thought I saw DSX posting a machined full hat a week or 2 ago. You can definitely mount a larger pump outside vs 2 or 3 small ones in a OEM or custom hat.
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Old 02-15-2020, 08:28 AM   #38
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It is hard for me to believe there is that much engineering in the injector upgrade to bring those prices. It is crazy, imo.
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Sold 2012 2LT RS 12.3@112 old setup

Sold 1967 Camaro Pro Street. Ran 10's mild BB on NOS.

2017 HyperBlue ZL1 A10 ** Born 3/17/17**Delivered 4/08/17

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Old 02-16-2020, 10:27 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IneedAZ View Post
It is hard for me to believe there is that much engineering in the injector upgrade to bring those prices. It is crazy, imo.
Yep. Coming from coyote/voodoo stuff, I’m blown away at what injectors cost for these and how difficult it is to simply run pump e85
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