How Many Failures ?

[IgotHobbies]

Just curious to know how many people have experinced aftermarket cam failure and lifter failure ? I'm looking for people that have actully experinced it, not someone that has heard of someone or knows someone that has experinced it.

I read on here so very often about cam failure (more comp cams than anything else) and lifter failure (by using search not recent post) but im just trying to get a more accurate count of how often this happens.

I also see alot of comp cam trunion upgrade failures also, please chime in if you have experinced this also.

What cam was it (name & specs) ?

What caused the failure (if you know)?

Did you do the intall yourself or a shop ?

How many miles after mod till the failure ?

Stock lifters ? (ls3 or ls7 or ?)

Was the trunion upgrade done at the same time as the cam and lifters ?

Did you change the lifters at the time of the cam swap ?

[christianchevell]

actually being on here since dirt I have noticed that with information and not running off half cocked shoving anything into the engine and the base for knowledge being there more and less prevalence to just do it yourself.........There have not been posts of cam or lifter failures in along time..........

There may have been a bad batch once from comp cam being the leader in stock but that was like five years ago, people no longer use just any core as they believed the stupid advice of ....COOTER SAYS ITS A ROLLER YOU DONT HAVE TO BREAK IT IN....and have actually gone to 8620 cores for such advice as yes harder is better and still being ignorant despite my trying to repeatedly put out that a break in should be done..with a good break in oil like Driven racing BR30.....

And coincidentally most getting set up and doing a dump after a cam install of the oil are dyno tuned making it in effect broken in. COincidentally..........

But also people who were lost and vague on doing their own install have done more professionally and read up a lot more. Once there was and still is a DIY step by step from Robert Way....where is he now? He installed with no break in and no tune, he had trouble getting his preload set right and stumbled off down the road to get his tune.

I was here , he tried and had to learn and was not so hot on preload...and I learned, the average when taking apart the ls3 engine of the preset factory preload is in the .045-.060 range, usually the lower as less lash/preload= less noise.

Now brainiacs back then used the threads of the rocker stud to figure out they needed like a turn or more to get to a good preload with the threads being .047 they did not do the math as that requires experience or thinking and that equates to doing maybe 3/4 a turn but they did a turn or more as; 1.7 rocker ratio x .047 = .077 so one turn of the nut is not the way to go and exceeds the preload even for a ls7 with its .070 preload spec I could find out eventually so they were deep in the almost plunger interference area for the lifter and noisey......

And trouble just waiting to happen...... Now trunnions they do fail sometimes and rarely you get a report and the same for a occasional lifter or even the stock cam going bad with irregular bubbles in the casting or such..... But saying its often is just your research over the years, and yes our springs on most cams installed are hard on the upper valve train and a better high volume pump helps out, but so does knowing what the hell your doing and using good correct grade oil.

SO in a great many of those posts you read people half cocked wanting a hot rod ran into trouble understanding things because they just read off of here..don't be like them, there are books out there and some very competent people to do the install with good advice and studying up is best to even learn to buy the right parts for the install.

And where Robert Way is? haven't heard a peep for years...........so its best to CYA, this is the internet where people only pop up to say hey...just blew up my engine whats wrong? And people come and go and its on the down trend for popularity.....

[Soybeanrice]

Your survey is flawed. Youre only looking for people who have experienced failures to gauge an idea of how likely it will fail. Think about how much sense that makes.

Sounds more like you want people w/ failures to talk you out parts or to confirm your bias.

Anyways, searching for a problem will only make you think its more likely. Also, happy people are less likely to post on the internet.

I personally have a comp cam and I trust this to keep going for a loooong time. I installed it myself without proper tools/measurements (definitely not professional). I simply bought a kit from JDP w/ their recommended pushrod length and have had a good time since. Hell, theres even a bolt living in my oil pan cause im too lazy to get it out from the install. I even have the crossmember cut underneath the pan to make it easy and I still havent fished it out.

P.S. I used robertway's guide.

[Avenging Orange]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

actually being on here since dirt I have noticed that with information and not running off half cocked shoving anything into the engine and the base for knowledge being there more and less prevalence to just do it yourself.........There have not been posts of cam or lifter failures in along time..........

There may have been a bad batch once from comp cam being the leader in stock but that was like five years ago, people no longer use just any core as they believed the stupid advice of ....COOTER SAYS ITS A ROLLER YOU DONT HAVE TO BREAK IT IN....and have actually gone to 8620 cores for such advice as yes harder is better and still being ignorant despite my trying to repeatedly put out that a break in should be done..with a good break in oil like Driven racing BR30.....

And coincidentally most getting set up and doing a dump after a cam install of the oil are dyno tuned making it in effect broken in. COincidentally..........

But also people who were lost and vague on doing their own install have done more professionally and read up a lot more. Once there was and still is a DIY step by step from Robert Way....where is he now? He installed with no break in and no tune, he had trouble getting his preload set right and stumbled off down the road to get his tune.

I was here , he tried and had to learn and was not so hot on preload...and I learned, the average when taking apart the ls3 engine of the preset factory preload is in the .045-.060 range, usually the lower as less lash/preload= less noise.

Now brainiacs back then used the threads of the rocker stud to figure out they needed like a turn or more to get to a good preload with the threads being .047 they did not do the math as that requires experience or thinking and that equates to doing maybe 3/4 a turn but they did a turn or more as; 1.7 rocker ratio x .047 = .077 so one turn of the nut is not the way to go and exceeds the preload even for a ls7 with its .070 preload spec I could find out eventually so they were deep in the almost plunger interference area for the lifter and noisey......

And trouble just waiting to happen...... Now trunnions they do fail sometimes and rarely you get a report and the same for a occasional lifter or even the stock cam going bad with irregular bubbles in the casting or such..... But saying its often is just your research over the years, and yes our springs on most cams installed are hard on the upper valve train and a better high volume pump helps out, but so does knowing what the hell your doing and using good correct grade oil.

SO in a great many of those posts you read people half cocked wanting a hot rod ran into trouble understanding things because they just read off of here..don't be like them, there are books out there and some very competent people to do the install with good advice and studying up is best to even learn to buy the right parts for the install.

And where Robert Way is? haven't heard a peep for years...........so its best to CYA, this is the internet where people only pop up to say hey...just blew up my engine whats wrong? And people come and go and its on the down trend for popularity.....

Though somewhat long winded and awkward. ...this statement is so true.
I have had many a cammed vehicle.....and none that failed. But, I had them done by professionals.
Most of your "fails" are from the self install not taking certain things into consideration.

[InFiD3ViL]

Better and more accurate poll would have been "Who has a cammed Camaro and how has it lasted/performed?'...or something to that effect.

The way you asked this is only going to produce horror stories. So 100% of your responses will be negative.

[WHAMMO]

Its my 4th cammed LS engine and no fail was because of a faulty cam or lifters related. only the bearings ever let go...some nitrous longtime use and high rpm(no cutoff) was the only cause of failure in my case.

I run a basic DIY cam setup since 2 summers. Running hard and no issue for 8-10k

[LsxDoctor]

Cliffs: Oil pump went out (TSB)- Broke a lifter - everything else was fine

Lingenfelter Cam Duration at 050 inch Lift: 229 int./242 exh, Lift at 050 631/631, 114 LSA
Home install, lifters untouched, stock rockers
Lifter failed 8k miles after install

I had a lifter fail on me last month thanks to the stock oil pump (before I was aware of the TSB on the pump) Heard a slight tick, oil psi wasn't too low but as the days went on the tick got worse. I originally thought my header got loose so I wasn't too worried about it. One morning I made it a block away and the oil psi was at 5 and the tick was loud. Limped it home and ripped her apart. Replaced the oil pump (dropped the pickup tube bolt in the pan but thats another story lol), oil psi was great but the tick was as lout as ever. Pinpointed the sound and removed the passenger head. The lifter had a flat spot and some pieces broke off. Cam looked fine, replaced the lifter tray with a new one and the one damaged lifter with one I found in the garage and problem solved.

[prod]

Originally Posted by LsxDoctor

Cliffs: Oil pump went out (TSB)- Broke a lifter - everything else was fine

Lingenfelter Cam Duration at 050 inch Lift: 229 int./242 exh, Lift at 050 631/631, 114 LSA
Home install, lifters untouched, stock rockers
Lifter failed 8k miles after install

Are you auto or manual?
I'd like to hear responses relating to LS3 vs L99 parts, as Im still on the fence about which to get.

[LsxDoctor]

LS3

Originally Posted by prod

Are you auto or manual?
I'd like to hear responses relating to LS3 vs L99 parts, as Im still on the fence about which to get.

[WHAMMO]

I wouldnt touch the stock rockers unless going with a CHE setup or similar (Summit has one cheap), if you have to.

Just do it man, plenty of guys nation wide running simple cam setup and doing fine, we dont hear them saying its running fine everyday. And plenty are not forum members too.

Your must-do list;
-LS2 dogbone timing chain guide (my LS3 tensionner was fukd after 20k miles stock!)
-Replace timing chain with beefier LT-1 chain(new GM replacement)
-Quality springs kit
-Oil pump!!! Melling Hi press for me and its never under 38psi. Some say hi volume will suck up the pan dry, which is debated.
-HIGH QUALITY OIL!! Amsoil Z-rod here with the extra zinc to protect.

[keenjim312]

How about a factory cam or lifter failure on a 2010 LS3. Has anyone heard of such an issue? I do on mine.

Jim

[christianchevell]

My Tuner has he has also seen failures on Cadillac ctsv etc..stock crap from a bad cam ...rare and seen failures to warranty by dealers. His name is Tommy Wong he runs Wongs performance Engineering in Vancouver...and let me say I am over say 55 LOL and I have build lots of engines and the only cam failure I ever saw was due to bad lifter bore from a bad head and that's with Flat Tappets much more likely to need the perfect break in and experience much more metal to metal wear.......

The failures I read about here were when this Place was hoppin here with thousands online in the beginning more and some Blamed Comp just because they were the base stock for most custom cams and only a portion of them were due to bad cam....most were installation error and lack of break in or wrong preload being too high...people not applying the 1.7 ratio times the thread pitch in setting the preload right attributed to some real early failures....1.7 x .47 thread pitch so 2/3-3/4 turn from zero to meet the .040 to .060 sweeter spot for noise and preload area for the roller lifters....Instead they went oh the thread pitch is .047 so I will go a full turn and then some and then the lifters bottom out the pushrod and rub the cam with lots of nasty pressure but the engine is so strong its not going to really complain that much......and BTW a bad broken in cam being a roller..well it happens way down the line as the rollers really do help wear......

Anyway.... Your having to always figure too in some cases what came first the chicken or the egg..as your lifters with a cam failure are most likely ground out of round or broken or your having pitting on the surface of the cam from improper polishing which was to blame for some of the comp cam batch..which eventually led to cam makers going to 8620 cores as some worried about the metallurgy as most bump sticks do come from ovens in China..... And well lots don't do a break in like I do with Driven br30 because they know it all......

And then of course Trunnions can cause problems also..... Yup one time I had my car at the shop and Tom was doing a stock Cam on a Caddy.... had seen them with pitting....eating the rollers more than a few times...like some other LS engines ....Crap does happen...LOL Also more than once saw him demod cars blown due to FI etc..... so someone could try to get warranty work for their Car.... And yes I read more of L99 lifter failures.....On Here. But it is always a case of the chicken or the egg rare to be stock and defective but it does happen.

[Pete]

I have an L99. #7 AFM lifter failed at 11K, started missing at a red light and was not on the car hard was just coming back home from getting gas, Was very annoyed because I was truly not beating on it when it happened. Just plain lifter failure. No other issues when I tore the motor down. Installed a GPI VVT Stage 1 cam with GM Performance lifters. About 2K on the motor of pretty hard driving, hole shots/launches a few burn outs no issues yet.

Adding that the motor was stock at the time of breaking, tune, Vararam and RX oil catch can only in the engine bay.

[Bo White]

Ive never "broken in" a roller cam. Theres nothing there to break in. Flat tappet cams need a break in. For one the lifters arent flat and two they arent flat because of how the lobe and lifter work together to reduce friction by spinning the lifter. The lobe isnt flat to match the shape of the bottom of the lifter. This contact area is what has to be broken in carefully. On a roller setup all of that is out the window.
Yours truely, Cooter.