05-09-2017, 01:17 PM | #1 | |||||||||||||||
Cal
Drives: 2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Coupe M6 Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 779
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6th Gen ZL1 M6 Bone Stock can do 11.6 or better
My first run of the day came in at 11.6438 @ 122.35 MPH with a 1.9919 60 ft.
I'm now thinking that 11.4 is possible bone stock on factory rubber, with the right atmospheric conditions and a better launch. Right now I'm still waiting for my drag wheels and MT DRs so I couldn't stay home with the cooler temps. Friday would have been better, temps in 60s with tail-wind but the storm front hung around too long and they rescheduled Test & Tune for Sunday. Should be able to get into the 10s with the DRs if I can get consistently better in the 60 ft. As usual, all my time slips, videos, notes, and analyses lie below for those who crave details. No spectator videos this time. I couldn't find anyone to go with me to the track so All I got were PDR and helmet-mounted GoPro (forgot GoPro on one pass). Once again, I allowed myself to become distracted a few times. Made one bonehead shift 2nd-to-5th and ended up with 12.1 instead of 11.something. Still, I did get more seat time and learned more about my car. Besides, it was still a lot of fun!!! [4000 RPM Launch Limit] I was hooking good in the early runs, launching between 3000-3500 RPM, so I was going to try launching 4500-5000 RPM. I found that, even with ALL the nannies off (SC/TC disabled), the ECM stepped in and limited my launch RPM to 4000. Not only that, but it bogged - felt suspiciously like a launch control, timing retard. This was very disappointing! I even tried pulling the TCM-IGN fuse when I got back to the paddock but it still limited RPM to 4000 with SC/TPM disabled. If you want to skip the details you can just view all the videos (GoPro, and PDR) together in the order of each pass, or skip around, in this YouTube playlist: 20170507 Coastal Plains Dragway I'd love to hear any suggestions, especially regarding how to defeat or work around the forced launch control. Enjoy! --Cal Time Slip Data: (My 6th Gen ZL1 was #16) Code:
2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Opposing Lane Seq Time R/T 60 ft ET MPH Opposing Car R/T 60 ft ET MPH #885 13:48:02 0.3930 1.9919 11.6438 122.35 none #890 13:54:12 0.3599 2.0932 11.7618 122.69 #10 '67 Cougar 0.0818 1.6383 12.3702 98.22 #898 14:02:39 0.3270 2.2318 12.1331 121.32 #27 Little Gray Car 0.1128 2.0512 12.7401 111.11 #951 15:09:51 0.5728 2.3601 12.2092 122.59 none #955 15:16:13 0.0720 2.2379 12.1101 121.27 #22 Black Corvette 0.5099 1.6692 11.1860 126.04 #959 15:21:02 0.1701 2.0420 11.8539 121.93 none #963 15:26:32 0.2771 1.9868 12.1667 116.61 #4 5th Gen Camaro SS 0.3529 2.2550 13.4292 101.30 #969 15:33:49 0.2141 2.1289 12:0750 120.97 #3 Little Black Car 0.5379 2.4241 14.9830 95.13 ** Time Slip #969 is not the one for my pass - two different cars ** 1. Never let launch RPM reach 4000 or launch control will kick in whether you've completely disabled the nannies or not. 2. Before next drag strip visit test all drive modes and TPM modes to see which, if any, will allow idling up past 4000 RPM. 3. If I can't completely disable SC/TC try enabling Drive Mode "Track"/TPM mode "Race" and keep launch RPM under 4000 to get a manual launch. See if I can find a manual clutch-release/throttle pressure combo that'll improve my 60 ft times. 4. Whichever lane produces the best times, stay in that lane. Don't go hunting unless someone oiled up your good lane. 5. Only short-shift to 2nd if you're getting a lot of wheel spin there. Never short-shift 3rd or 4th. 6. If they give you the wrong slip, insist you get the correct one based on the time of day for your pass.. Time Slips 1-4 Time Slips 5-8 [Videos] ================================================== ============ 20170507 CPD Pass 01 of 08 6th Gen ZL1 Solo 20170507 Coastal Plains Dragway Weather: Sunny, 71F, ptly cloudy, wind WNW 10, 51% humidity Time Slip: Code:
2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Opposing Lane Seq Time R/T 60 ft ET MPH Opposing Car R/T 60 ft ET MPH #885 13:48:02 0.3930 1.9919 11.6438 122.35 none 1. Slight wheel spin on launch, moderate wheel spin on shift to 2nd. 2. Traction control kicked in with wheel spin on launch (nannies disabled) but didn't on 2nd gear spin. 3. Cross-wind trying to blow me off track to right PDR Video: GoPro Video: Sorry, everything through windshield is washed out from bright sun. Before staging you can see me using Line-Lock for the burn-out. If you freeze-frame after the burn-out you can see me holding down the SC button until the TC/SC disabled lights appear in the DIC to disable all the nannies. ================================================== ======= ================================================== ======= 20170507 CPD Pass 02 of 08 6th Gen ZL1 vs '67 Mercury Cougar 20170507 Coastal Plains Dragway Weather: Sunny, 71F, ptly cloudy, wind WNW 10, 51% humidity Time Slip: Code:
2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Opposing Lane Seq Time R/T 60 ft ET MPH Opposing Car R/T 60 ft ET MPH #890 13:54:12 0.3599 2.0932 11.7618 122.69 #10 '67 Cougar 0.0818 1.6383 12.3702 98.22 1. Tried to launch above 4000 RPM but something stopped it at 4000 even with nannies disabled. 2. Bogged on launch, slight wheel spin on shift to 2nd. PDR Video: GoPro Video: Sorry, everything through windshield is washed out from bright sun. ================================================== ======= ================================================== ======= 20170507 CPD Pass 03 of 08 6th Gen ZL1 vs Little Gray Car 20170507 Coastal Plains Dragway Weather: Sunny, 71F, ptly cloudy, wind WNW 10, 51% humidity Time Slip: Code:
2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Opposing Lane Seq Time R/T 60 ft ET MPH Opposing Car R/T 60 ft ET MPH #898 14:02:39 0.3270 2.2318 12.1331 121.32 #27 Little Gray Car 0.1128 2.0512 12.7401 111.11 1. Still getting limited to 4000 launch RPM 2. Bogged badly on launch - feels like it's pulling timing even with nannies off 3. Wind gusts pushing me off to the right 4. Need to figure out how to defeat or work around whatever is limiting my launch RPM and bogging the motor. It feels like launch control is NOT disabled even though both SC and TC indicators show that their off! PDR Video: GoPro Video: Sorry, everything through windshield is washed out from bright sun. ================================================== ======= *** Cool Off Period - 1 hour *** ##!! Pulled TCM-ENG fuse in paddock but still wouldn't let me idle up past 4000 RPM. I even tried creeping up on it but no go. With my 5th Gen SS 1LE as long as I didn't go immediately WOT I could launch at any RPM I pleased. This new ZL1, and I assume all 6th Gen Camaros, will apparently not let you disable launch control. Every time I launch at 4000 RPM the motor bogs. If I launch just below 4000 RPM I can get wheel slip but traction control kicks in (not a bad thing), proving that the automated traction/stability controls cannot be fully disabled. Why can't I have it so that I can control my own throttle at launch? If there's torque induced wheel slip either at launch or moving down the track, I'd like the eLSD to apply just enough force to stop that wheel from spinning but don't mess with my engine timing! ================================================== ======= 20170507 CPD Pass 04 of 08 6th Gen ZL1 Solo 20170507 Coastal Plains Dragway Weather: Sunny, 72F, ptly cloudy, wind WNW 10, 51% humidity Time Slip: Code:
2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Opposing Lane Seq Time R/T 60 ft ET MPH Opposing Car R/T 60 ft ET MPH #951 15:09:51 0.5728 2.3601 12.2092 122.59 none 1. Burn-out put me out of the groove. Should have backed up and re-aligned the wheels. 2. Kept throttle just under 4000 RPM at launch. This produced a lot of wheel spin. Also got some wheel spin on shift to 2nd. 3. With launch RPM under 4000, traction control did NOT kick it like it did on previous runs. Neither did the engine bog. 4. Wind still pushing the car to the right. 5. Maybe if I leave it in TPM mode "Race" (don't disable nannies, since it won't let me anyway) and launch under 4000 RPM I can get traction control to help with the wheel spin without bogging the motor. Might take a little more toying around with clutch release to get the right combination. PDR Video: GoPro Video: Before staging you can see me using Line-Lock for the burn-out. If you freeze-frame after the burn-out you can see me holding down the SC button until the TC/SC disabled lights appear in the DIC to disable all the nannies. ================================================== ======= ================================================== ======= 20170507 CPD Pass 05 of 08 6th Gen ZL1 vs Black Corvette 20170507 Coastal Plains Dragway Weather: Sunny, 72F, ptly cloudy, wind WNW 10, 51% humidity Time Slip: 2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Opposing Lane Seq Time R/T 60 ft ET MPH Opposing Car R/T 60 ft ET MPH #955 15:16:13 0.0720 2.2379 12.1101 121.27 #22 Black Corvette 0.5099 1.6692 11.1860 126.04 Notes: 1. Too much wheel spin on launch. Went too heavy on throttle at first. Should have let clutch out slowly with more gradual throttle input. 2. Track and/or tires too slippery - lots of 2nd gear wheel spin. 3. Wind still pushing car to right 4. Remember to re-adjust car position after burnout to line-up with the groove. PDR Video: GoPro Video: ================================================== ======= ================================================== ======= 20170507 CPD Pass 06 of 08 6th Gen ZL1 Solo 20170507 Coastal Plains Dragway Weather: Sunny, 73F, ptly cloudy, wind W 10, 51% humidity Time Slip: Code:
2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Opposing Lane Seq Time R/T 60 ft ET MPH Opposing Car R/T 60 ft ET MPH #959 15:21:02 0.1701 2.0420 11.8539 121.93 none 1. Some controlled wheel spin on launch. Traction control kicked in to help - good. 2. Slight wheel spin on shift to 2nd. 3. Winds still pushing car to the right. PDR Video: GoPro Video: none ================================================== ======= ================================================== ======= 20170507 CPD Pass 07 of 08 6th Gen ZL1 vs 5th Gen Camaro SS 20170507 Coastal Plains Dragway Weather: Sunny, 74F, ptly cloudy, wind W 10, 51% humidity Time Slip: Code:
2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Opposing Lane Seq Time R/T 60 ft ET MPH Opposing Car R/T 60 ft ET MPH #963 15:26:32 0.2771 1.9868 12.1667 116.61 #4 5th Gen Camaro SS 0.3529 2.2550 13.4292 101.30 1. Slight, controlled spin at launch - good. 2. Minor wheel slip on shift to 2nd. 3. Stupid shift to 5th instead of 3rd. Quickly recovered but ruined the pass. PDR Video: GoPro Video: ================================================== ======= ================================================== ======= 20170507 CPD Pass 08 of 08 6th Gen ZL1 vs Little Black Car 20170507 Coastal Plains Dragway Weather: Sunny, 74F, ptly cloudy, wind W 10, 51% humidity Time Slip: Code:
2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Opposing Lane Seq Time R/T 60 ft ET MPH Opposing Car R/T 60 ft ET MPH *** wrong time slip *** See PDR video for approximate ET 1. Had to backup and re-stage. Last pass car's hood flipped open down-track. 2. Slight wheel slip on launch. Low rpm/power - slow launch. 3. Slight short-shift to 2nd - No wheel slip 4. Short-shifted 3rd and 4th, slowing my time down PDR Video: GoPro Video: ================================================== ======= Last edited by cwebster; 05-18-2017 at 07:32 AM. Reason: Fix typeos & added video notes (bold lt-blue) |
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05-09-2017, 06:54 PM | #2 |
Drives: Corvette Z06 Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 126
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I'll say this your PDR was really accurate compared to your slips.
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05-09-2017, 07:05 PM | #3 |
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Agreed. I'd expected at least a 2 tenths faster reading on PDR but all those are under a tenth. Guess that means the factory timer (1/4 at least) is a good practice tool.
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Current: '17 2SS Hyper Blue, A8, MRC, NPP
Past: '99 SS Camaro A4, '73 Camaro 383 A3 "Voices in your head are not considered insider information." 3800 Status - 6/16/16 (Built!) 6000 status - 6/29/16 (Delivered!) |
05-09-2017, 08:32 PM | #4 |
Drives: 17 Camaro SS 1LE & 16 Sierra AT CC Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 2,424
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I can tell you this, there is no way around the 4k RPM limit in neutral unless you get into the ECM and tune it. That is hard coded into the OEM calibration.
Today was the 1st time I have ever used the Launch Control on a 0-60 run in my car, I agree though if you get into LC mode the system does what it can to limit wheel spin thru throttle management and timing cuts. |
05-10-2017, 08:33 AM | #5 | |||
Cal
Drives: 2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Coupe M6 Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 779
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Yeah, this is a big disappointment for me. So far I've found this limit imposes itself in Track drive mode in any of the available TPM modes - even with TC/SC disabled! Apparently it only lifts this limit once you start rolling, as shown in my passes that launched below 4000 RPM. Whenever I launched at 4000 RPM, even with nannies disabled, it pulled timing as if I'd used Launch Control. First, I'm going to explore all drive mode/TPM mode combinations to learn exactly where this undocumented limit is applied. Then if, as I suspect, it's present in all competitive modes; I'll experiment with launch technique to work around it. I was thinking I may be able to work a sort of "double-clutch" release at launch. At the last yellow, while maintaining 3900 RPM, briefly and quickly lift the clutch enough to start rolling slightly. Then lift again while applying more throttle to feather it into a quick transition without bogging and with very little wheel slip. If I do this in drive mode "Track" and TPM mode "Race" without triggering Launch Control (keeping RPM under 4000 RPM at launch), I may even be able to enlist the help of the eLSD (SC) to control wheel slip only as needed. This would also allow me to use no-lift shift. Since I've been launching with all nannies disabled, the stability controls and no-lift shift have been unavailable. --Cal |
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05-10-2017, 04:10 PM | #6 | |
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On my SS last night I was running with LC and found that the LC RPM was too low for even my crappy NT555Rs. Once I figured that out I launched @5K and dropped over 2 tenths on my best ET of the night. No limit on the SS launch with TC off.
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05-10-2017, 04:36 PM | #7 | |
Cal
Drives: 2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Coupe M6 Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 779
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So you were able to launch over 4k with just TC off? I'll see if I can do that and try it next time. Sure is annoying when you're running up against these barriers that weren't there in the 5th Gen. Thanks for the feedback. Last edited by cwebster; 05-12-2017 at 11:24 AM. |
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05-10-2017, 06:17 PM | #8 | |
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05-11-2017, 07:27 AM | #9 | |
Cal
Drives: 2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Coupe M6 Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 779
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Being among the first 6th Gen owners, it's up to us to figure things out and work out the bugs for everyone else. Thanks again for the feedback. Been reading some of your other posts... I like your style, man. --Cal |
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05-11-2017, 08:38 AM | #10 |
Z Bowman
Drives: 2010 2SS (SOLD), 2016 2SS, 2007 Z71 Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 222
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Be curious to see how strong your axles are. I broke a axle on a Mickey DR 7th pass when it was stock. 2SS m6 car
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2016 2SS M6 Bo White Ported MSD, Bo White Ported TB, Flex Fuel Kit, Drag Pack, Rotofab, Ryan Stevens GPI tune, 15 conversion
Fastest Bolt On N/A M6 Record Holder 11.268 @ 120.268 2010 2SS/RS A6 (sold)Mods: Borla Atak Catback, Stainless Power 1 7/8 Headers, TSP VVT-3 Cam, 3200 Yank Stall, CAI Inake, Ported TB, 18" MT ET STREETS |
05-12-2017, 09:49 AM | #11 |
Cal
Drives: 2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Coupe M6 Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 779
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05-12-2017, 11:25 AM | #12 | ||||
Cal
Drives: 2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Coupe M6 Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 779
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For all drive modes except Track, revs are limited to 4000 RPM. This is the same behavior that I see when I hold down SC button to disable nannies. Once in Track drive mode, stopped rev limit drops to about 3600 RPM. I think this is the default Launch RPM for Launch Control. The only way to raise the limit in these TPM modes is to enter the Launch Control menu and manually raise it to the max 4000 RPM. Maybe the SS and ZL1 differ this way. I have found no way through the menus to raise the standing rev limit past 4000. My plan now is to use TPM mode Race and work around this by one of two methods, both require maintaining less than 4000 RPM staged at the tree so as not to enable timing retard of LC. The idea is to get the wheels rolling, even just inches, before applying heavy throttle. Launch RPM limits should be disabled immediately after wheel movement. Set Custom Launch Control Launch RPM to max (4000). Then: 1. Jump the green slightly: While raising clutch, hesitate slightly at the friction point to allow wheels to move. Then apply more throttle to about 4500-5000 RPM while aggressively feathering clutch. 2. Jump the green as the 3rd yellow lights: Double-clutch, bumping it slightly at first to roll forward inches. Then Then apply more throttle to about 4500-5000 RPM while aggressively feathering clutch. In practice, I expect this will take a while to get working. It'll require split-second timing of pedals. Other than putting a custom tune on it and voiding the warranty, that's all I can think of right now. --Cal |
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05-12-2017, 03:15 PM | #13 | |
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Chevy is saying the 5th Gen ZL1 diff is the Diff for drag racing but that diff too is limited to a 3.73 for manuals. However that diff/axles is hard to break and weighs a ton. It is very quiet with the correct oil, but does it fit the CA6 ZL1? A difference in the CA6 Zl1 versus the 5th gen is the 5th gen ZL1 was built for drag racing and corner carving but with heat soak. The CA6 ZL1 replaces the Z/28 and ZL1 for now. So it has a bit of a different focus.
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05-12-2017, 06:14 PM | #14 | ||
Cal
Drives: 2017 6th Gen Camaro ZL1 Coupe M6 Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 779
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Chevrolet: Camaro Conquers the Quarter-Mile (2016-10-31) Quote:
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