[Devstrike]

I am one of those apartment people mentioned which is why Full EV is out of the question for me.

[Fak_Ork]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

I am one of those apartment people mentioned which is why Full EV is out of the question for me.

I'd say that driving to the charging station and the gas station aren't entirely dissimilar but EV range is lower and it takes more time to dump those electrons so they aren't quite the same deal, agreed.

I think Hybrids and gas vehicles need to remain in the mix for a long time but for most buyers, a BEV will make the most sense although even then you can expect an average 1-2k (or more) charge for that level 2 charger garage install- and possibly required electrical panel/subpanel upgrade. 120V charging is just not going to really cut it for BEV's. Free/reduced charging at dedicated work parking spaces would really spice things up, probably be a great tax deduction too.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Fak_Ork

I'd say that driving to the charging station and the gas station aren't entirely dissimilar but EV range is lower and it takes more time to dump those electrons so they aren't quite the same deal, agreed.



I think Hybrids and gas vehicles need to remain in the mix for a long time but for most buyers, a BEV will make the most sense although even then you can expect an average 1-2k (or more) charge for that level 2 charger garage install- and possibly required electrical panel/subpanel upgrade. 120V charging is just not going to really cut it for BEV's. Free/reduced charging at dedicated work parking spaces would really spice things up, probably be a great tax deduction too.

That's why you see some companies focusing their effort on FCEV, which you can fill up quickly, and it can work for certain countries like Japan, but hydrogen has its own share of trouble.

[JKSully]

Years ago I had the idea that they should come up with a standard battery design that could be quickly swapped, then you could have battery change stations like those Blue Rhino propane tank swap stations outside of home improvement and grocery stores. But getting manufacturers to agree to that would be near impossible.

And for the record, I also had an idea for video rental deliveries in the 90s that I laughed off as "never gonna work" - so not all of my ideas suck

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by JKSully

Years ago I had the idea that they should come up with a standard battery design that could be quickly swapped, then you could have battery change stations like those Blue Rhino propane tank swap stations outside of home improvement and grocery stores. But getting manufacturers to agree to that would be near impossible.

And for the record, I also had an idea for video rental deliveries in the 90s that I laughed off as "never gonna work" - so not all of my ideas suck

This is actually an old idea that was considered many years ago and ultimately rejected. Industry standardization is just one problem. Ends up being much less practical.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by JKSully

Years ago I had the idea that they should come up with a standard battery design that could be quickly swapped, then you could have battery change stations like those Blue Rhino propane tank swap stations outside of home improvement and grocery stores. But getting manufacturers to agree to that would be near impossible.

And for the record, I also had an idea for video rental deliveries in the 90s that I laughed off as "never gonna work" - so not all of my ideas suck

This is actually an old idea that was considered many years ago and ultimately rejected. Industry standardization is just one problem. Ends up being much less practical.

[Hops]

The Lotus E-R9 concept for a 2030 endurance racer uses hot swap-able batteries. I think this is the only way (in the near future) to have a pure EV motorsport comparable to IndyCar/F1 ICE. (Current Formula E limits the cars ~268hp for a 45 min race).

Perhaps tracks days in the near future will have charging available for EV's, but if everyone is in an EV, i'm guessing your typical track day would require ~25 level 3 chargers to get ~75 cars in three run groups a charger (not cheap ($50k a piece $3k/year maintenance), and given the charger will be underutilized in the pits, it will be expensive to charge).

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Hops

The Lotus E-R9 concept for a 2030 endurance racer uses hot swap-able batteries. I think this is the only way (in the near future) to have a pure EV motorsport comparable to IndyCar/F1 ICE. (Current Formula E limits the cars ~268hp for a 45 min race).

Perhaps tracks days in the near future will have charging available for EV's, but if everyone is in an EV, i'm guessing your typical track day would require ~25 level 3 chargers to get ~75 cars in three run groups a charger (not cheap ($50k a piece $3k/year maintenance), and given the charger will be underutilized in the pits, it will be expensive to charge).

Interesting thoughts. I am also wondering if off-road Motorsports activities have to adhere to the same constraints as public roads. I mean, in a scenario where sales of new ICE cars is banned, but purchase of used ICE is okay, would tracks just continue to support ICE track cars. Could make the sport even that much more popular. Go out on the weekend to “get your ICE on”.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Number 3

This is actually an old idea that was considered many years ago and ultimately rejected. Industry standardization is just one problem. Ends up being much less practical.

Better Place is a good case study. They’re out of business now. Their battery swap concept made sense in an environment where companies were still figuring out where to fit batteries in typical vehicle platforms. In this resurgence of BEV activity and with the onset of new product that is about to hit the market HARD in 2022, batteries are a part of the structure of the platform. Swapping will NOT be a thing. You’d have to remove the vehicle top hat to get to the battery packs. It can be done, and will likely be a serviceable action, but you’re not getting to that in an hour or two. Here’s shots of the Hummer BET platform I took at Motor Bella showing how the batteries are integrated into the platform. So, yes they are replaceable at a module level and, according to GM, at a pouch level, but replacing the entire pack is on par with an engine replacement and will not be a quick operation.

[90503]

I think Japan has used a swapping station/system for their fleets of Prius taxicabs...Something along those lines. I think the swapping idea is still alive.

Besides, China seems to like the idea, so...you know, blah, blah...etc.

Google "battery swapping stations"...found this, for example

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...25-2021-09-26/

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Better Place is a good case study. They’re out of business now. Their battery swap concept made sense in an environment where companies were still figuring out where to fit batteries in typical vehicle platforms. In this resurgence of BEV activity and with the onset of new product that is about to hit the market HARD in 2022, batteries are a part of the structure of the platform. Swapping will NOT be a thing. You’d have to remove the vehicle top hat to get to the battery packs. It can be done, and will likely be a serviceable action, but you’re not getting to that in an hour or two. Here’s shots of the Hummer BET platform I took at Motor Bella showing how the batteries are integrated into the platform. So, yes they are replaceable at a module level and, according to GM, at a pouch level, but replacing the entire pack is on par with an engine replacement and will not be a quick operation.

Lifting the body to swap the batteries sounds really expensive. Battery packs come with a eight year, 100,000 mile warranty.

That will make a 100k timing belt service seem like the good old days. It will be like Ferrari when selling used ...has the battery service been done?

[90503]

This would work for apartment dwellers and others, etc. who can't charge at home or in a garage.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Want an end to this electric junk?

VOTE.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by 90503

This would work for apartment dwellers and others, etc. who can't charge at home or in a garage.

Rain and snow would ruin those in quick order, particularly the latter since you have salt to worry about.

And these machines probably need high precisions, which doesn't help. You need frequent calibrations and the weather issues mentioned before just add to the problem. At best, a misaligned machine will strip out a bolt and cause some headache. At worst, it can puncture a battery and... You can imagine the rest.