[Nilly Welson]

I have the Soler Ported TB on my 17 SS. How much more HP can I expect with the 103MM?

[Nilly Welson]

Forgive my ignorance, but why does it say 107mm on the plate but you are talking 103mm?

[Nilly Welson]

Originally Posted by BlackbeastSS2

Kind of like saying to your GF that your six inch Johnson performance like a 7 inch Johnson and yes GF there is a special feature hidden inside.

A ported 6 inch Johnson will outperform a 7 inch Johnson.

[radz28]

Because they trim away the blade/shaft. The blade/shaft takes-up room inside the TB.
Soler say effective because while the basic footprint of the TB is like that of a 103, they've essentially opened-up the inside (by careful shaping of the blade/shaft), so there is more airflow through less blockage inside the TB itself. Because of removing the restrictions to flow, they're able to flow air like a 107 would, with the same-untrimmed blade/shaft. Soler's 103 acts like a 107 because it's not choked-up inside. Think of their 103 as a "ported" TB to 107-flow.

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by radz28

Because they trim away the blade/shaft. The blade/shaft takes-up room inside the TB.
Soler say effective because while the basic footprint of the TB is like that of a 103, they've essentially opened-up the inside (by careful shaping of the blade/shaft), so there is more airflow through less blockage inside the TB itself. Because of removing the restrictions to flow, they're able to flow air like a 107 would, with the same-untrimmed blade/shaft. Soler's 103 acts like a 107 because it's not choked-up inside. Think of their 103 as a "ported" TB to 107-flow.

Exactly, that and the dimples on the shaft trailing edge, the contours of the body, etc. So, we have a regular 103mm flowing ~1500 scfm at 20.4" H2O, then we get ours flowing ~1700 scfm at the same vacuum. We simply had to add something to distinguish it from any other 103mm to give you an idea of its capacity in a language most folks are familiar with such as size in mm.

I wish the idea was easier to convey in a limited space without getting too technical.

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by Nilly Welson

I have the Soler Ported TB on my 17 SS. How much more HP can I expect with the 103MM?

I'd say if you have a 103mm manifold, go for it for the same reason you got the 103mm manifold and to help it out.

Otherwise, think about your target power, you'll only need this much capacity once you are near or above 800 hp.

The TB doesn't make the power, but it can restrict it when it is not sized correctly. It adds the capacity to handle air/power. It only adds air/power when it was left too small relative to the components downstream and upstream of it.

Simply put, don't let it be the bottleneck.

Originally Posted by Nilly Welson

Forgive my ignorance, but why does it say 107mm on the plate but you are talking 103mm?

See posts #18 and #19. Thanks.

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

Forgive my ignorance, but I was under the impression bottle necking determines the output. So if a 103mm TB paired with MSD's 103mm intake how exactly does the 103mm TB perform like a 107mm?

I mean is there some special feature this TB has over say: Nick Williams 103mm TB?

Yes, greater projected area in the flow direction. Reworked leading and trailing edges of the blade, dimpled half-shaft trailing edge, and other features we won't disclose, they add up to flow 1700 scfm at 20.4" H2O vs. less than 1500 scfm for the competition.

Also, remember for a TB and Manifold equally sized, the restriction is always the TB throat as the Manifold is a true full circular area, not interrupted by a shaft and blade right at its center.

[sr71bb]

Originally Posted by Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC

Yes, greater projected area in the flow direction. Reworked leading and trailing edges of the blade, dimpled half-shaft trailing edge, and other features we won't disclose, they add up to flow 1700 scfm at 20.4" H2O vs. less than 1500 scfm for the competition.

Also, remember for a TB and Manifold equally sized, the restriction is always the TB throat as the Manifold is a true full circular area, not interrupted by a shaft and blade right at its center.

Mike, If I remember there are some issues with the ECM closing the throttle blades to compensate for the fact that the throttle body was flowing more air than it typically should. Does HPTUNERS give you the capability of overiding the air flow table so that the throttle blades will open up to the 100% OPEN position on your 103???

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by sr71bb

Mike, If I remember there are some issues with the ECM closing the throttle blades to compensate for the fact that the throttle body was flowing more air than it typically should. Does HPTUNERS give you the capability of overiding the air flow table so that the throttle blades will open up to the 100% OPEN position on your 103???

The issue we know of, which is not really an issue but rather done on purpose by the ECM, is that at WOT the throttle is held at about 60% until you hit 3200 rpm. This is true of any throttle body stock or larger and it has no consequences. However, it can be changed in the tune by setting it to 100% throttle at any rpm under Engine>Airflow>Electronic Throttle>Max%Area vs. RPM. Pls, double-check with a tuner, we are not tuners over here.

We have heard of a similar issue with another brand of 103mm throttle bodies fluttering at WOT or shutting closed under aerodynamic load, but that is not ECM commanded. It is a mechanical issue. All our TB's are aerodynamically balanced.

There's one more issue yet we have heard of, and this one is not an issue either but rather the interpretation and definition of throttle %. When you read the SAE-defined throttle position in HPT, at WOT it might read 80's or 90's instead of 100%, but if you read the generic throttle position or look at the blade you can see 100%. This is just the way SAE defined TP and it doesn't mean that the ECM is closing to compensate.

Thanks,

[sr71bb]

Originally Posted by Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC

The issue we know of, which is not really an issue but rather done on purpose by the ECM, is that at WOT the throttle is held at about 60% until you hit 3200 rpm. This is true of any throttle body stock or larger and it has no consequences. However, it can be changed in the tune by setting it to 100% throttle at any rpm under Engine>Airflow>Electronic Throttle>Max%Area vs. RPM. Pls, double-check with a tuner, we are not tuners over here.

We have heard of a similar issue with another brand of 103mm throttle bodies fluttering at WOT or shutting closed under aerodynamic load, but that is not ECM commanded. It is a mechanical issue. All our TB's are aerodynamically balanced.

There's one more issue yet we have heard of, and this one is not an issue either but rather the interpretation and definition of throttle %. When you read the SAE-defined throttle position in HPT, at WOT it might read 80's or 90's instead of 100%, but if you read the generic throttle position or look at the blade you can see 100%. This is just the way SAE defined TP and it doesn't mean that the ECM is closing to compensate.

Thanks,

Yeah the issue you mentioned with fluttering at WOT on the blade with the other manufacturersN 102MM throttle body was something that was beyond aggravation. In fact it was bad enough that to compensate for the flutter the PCM would partially close the throttle blades which was VERY hard on the engine especially near the limit. I believe that the air speed flowing thru THAT throttle body cause a harmonics issue that caused the blade to flutter. Most people eliminated that issue by NOT using that Throttle body and going with a smaller Throttle Body,

[BlackbeastSS2]

Originally Posted by Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC

The issue we know of, which is not really an issue but rather done on purpose by the ECM, is that at WOT the throttle is held at about 60% until you hit 3200 rpm. This is true of any throttle body stock or larger and it has no consequences. However, it can be changed in the tune by setting it to 100% throttle at any rpm under Engine>Airflow>Electronic Throttle>Max%Area vs. RPM. Pls, double-check with a tuner, we are not tuners over here.

We have heard of a similar issue with another brand of 103mm throttle bodies fluttering at WOT or shutting closed under aerodynamic load, but that is not ECM commanded. It is a mechanical issue. All our TB's are aerodynamically balanced.

There's one more issue yet we have heard of, and this one is not an issue either but rather the interpretation and definition of throttle %. When you read the SAE-defined throttle position in HPT, at WOT it might read 80's or 90's instead of 100%, but if you read the generic throttle position or look at the blade you can see 100%. This is just the way SAE defined TP and it doesn't mean that the ECM is closing to compensate.

Thanks,

Your comment about, "Engine>Airflow>Electronic Throttle>Max%Area vs. RPM. Pls, double-check with a tuner, we are not tuners over here."


Made me going and start reading posts on HP Tuners and their comments are not all positive about your product and others as well. Thats why I am sticking with the LT5 OEM Throttle Body from General Motors. The tuner IMO is the one of most important feature of a build after you get your engine together.

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

That's a solid bet, BlackbeastSS2...but you will find there the same issues with some stock or ported 95's, with other brands of 103's. It comes to simply let the ECM learn the TB before making any changes to the tune, or login for the tuner.

[Nilly Welson]

I'm running a stock intake and your ported TB. What results can I expect with just swapping to the 103/107 TB?

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by Nilly Welson

I'm running a stock intake and your ported TB. What results can I expect with just swapping to the 103/107 TB?

Hi, thanks. The 103 won't accept the stock intake duct. So you'd need a CAI, and perhaps a 103 manifold for our 103mm TB to make sense. Otherwise, it would be an overkill with little to no results.