[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I have no doubt the GT500 is a great performance vehicle. I don't think those massive 16.5" brakes fade. They are about an inch larger than the ZL1's, and probably dissipate a lot of heat.

I also like your points about the "excitement" or "specialness". I think Ford's done really well with the Shelby name. It has history and lore that people love - and the GT500 also seems to come out in response to the ZL1 and make more power than the competing ZL1 (at least in the last decade since Chevy reintroduced the ZL1 trim). Regarding the Camaro, car people and casual car folks know about the ZL1. Mine gets comments all the time. A guy next to me at a traffic light yesterday in a S550 Mustang GT said "Woah...nice ZL1, those things go hard!!" with a big goofy smile.

You also bring up some good points regarding the gearing. I think an A10 ZL1 has a gearing (and weight distribution) advantage in the lower speeds, which allows it to keep up with the GT500 until half way through 3rd gear in the ZL1, in which the GT500 is still in 2nd gear, and finally able to put more torque to the rear wheels than the ZL1 as torque in 3rd gear starts to trail off. It's interesting to look at the torque to rear wheels analysis of the two cars, which I've done many times. One can see the low speed advantages the ZL1 has when reviewing that data.

At high speeds the ZL1 loses the gearing advantage and the GT500's extra 110 hp takes over.

You're over on the Mustang forum...have you been noticing any threads related to issues with the GT500? Or have you noticed talk concerning problems with those cars more so that issues and problems with the ZL1 on this forum? Because again, to me it just seems like there are a lot of issues with the Shelby. And this is not coming from a place of criticism. It's more for general knowledge. If there are an alarming amount of issues with these cars then the main impact to me will be that mine will remain stock to stock-ish. If the issues are such that Ford will not have a problem with owners who did minor stuff like a tune, LTs, and pulley, then I might consider taking my chances at some point in the future. But the thing is, I never had to question the reliability and durability of the Camaros I've owned. Or the Mustang GTs or my Hellcat. But I'm a little more reserved about modding the GT500 beyond what can burn my warranty.

I wonder if Ford could have put the A10 in the Base GT500 and then kept the 7 DCT for the CF version. Or if they could have/should have just stuck with the A10 altogether. It seems that the biggest performance hindrance of them is that 7 speed DCT. I think it is fine in the C8. But it just seems like it is holding the GT500 back. I would like to see a comparison one day with someone who can swap in the A10 with a tune and compare it to the 7 DCT with a tune. It would be cool to see if the A10 would have indeed been the better performance choice.

And speaking of the trans, it appears there is a company that does M6 conversions for the GT500. I'm sure that would totally void the warranty and it would likely take someone who is very adventurous to take that on. I certainly wouldn't want my floorboards cut up and other interior modifications to mate a stick shift and clutch pedal inside the car. But it would be interesting to see how it performs.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You're over on the Mustang forum...have you been noticing any threads related to issues with the GT500? Or have you noticed talk concerning problems with those cars more so that issues and problems with the ZL1 on this forum? Because again, to me it just seems like there are a lot of issues with the Shelby. And this is not coming from a place of criticism. It's more for general knowledge. If there are an alarming amount of issues with these cars then the main impact to me will be that mine will remain stock to stock-ish. If the issues are such that Ford will not have a problem with owners who did minor stuff like a tune, LTs, and pulley, then I might consider taking my chances at some point in the future. But the thing is, I never had to question the reliability and durability of the Camaros I've owned. Or the Mustang GTs or my Hellcat. But I'm a little more reserved about modding the GT500 beyond what can burn my warranty.

I wonder if Ford could have put the A10 in the Base GT500 and then kept the 7 DCT for the CF version. Or if they could have/should have just stuck with the A10 altogether. It seems that the biggest performance hindrance of them is that 7 speed DCT. I think it is fine in the C8. But it just seems like it is holding the GT500 back. I would like to see a comparison one day with someone who can swap in the A10 with a tune and compare it to the 7 DCT with a tune. It would be cool to see if the A10 would have indeed been the better performance choice.

And speaking of the trans, it appears there is a company that does M6 conversions for the GT500. I'm sure that would totally void the warranty and it would likely take someone who is very adventurous to take that on. I certainly wouldn't want my floorboards cut up and other interior modifications to mate a stick shift and clutch pedal inside the car. But it would be interesting to see how it performs.

I'm not really sure. I know there was some early build QC issues that may or may not have been solved by now (e.g. kinked intercooler hoses, incorrectly routed wiring harnesses, and others, all on the same car). The usual Mustang build quality issues like panel alignment/gaps, etc., exist on the GT500 as well. I don't really remember reading much about engine failures or major engine issues on stock cars.

I doubt the DCT 7 speed is holding it back. Ford would have used the A10 (or a beefed up one, similar to the ZL1 A10) if the A10 was better. The DCT was heavier and more expensive, but I think it was a performance improvement. It just has a bit longer gearing than the A10, but it's powerful enough and revs high enough to where it isn't holding it back. If anything, like owners' claim, it's amazing and a bright spot in the impressive GT500 powertrain. 4th gear is 1.10:1 so it's geared a little shorter than a typical 6 speed manual. It roasts the tires in 1st gear anyway, so shorter gearing wouldn't help it (3.73s out back). I'm glad the ZL1 has a 2.85:1 rear diff. Shorter gearing wouldn't do it any favors, either.

Ford will deny warranty to affected areas due to any mods, even cold air intakes. So I'd be really careful. Gains are probably minimal, and you're risking a VERY expensive engine (more expensive than an LT4).

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Ford will deny warranty to affected areas due to any mods, even cold air intakes. So I'd be really careful. Gains are probably minimal, and you're risking a VERY expensive engine (more expensive than an LT4).

That is what I am afraid of. If that engine goes and Ford denys warranty due to mods then that leaves me either paying like $30,000 for the repairs myself (ouch) or further modding it which really kills the specialness of this vehicle. So this might just have to be one vehicle where I don't do any mods. I'm not afraid to do a cai or catback. But that's as far as I will go. So I guess it's a good thing I kept the GT. That way I can have a highly modded Mustang and not worry about expensive repairs should something blow.

Still tho it just seems Ford could have built the same performance in a GT500 without going the extra lengths making it super expensive. But then would it lose that specialness if it was just basically a modded and supercharged GT??

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I'm not really sure. I know there was some early build QC issues that may or may not have been solved by now (e.g. kinked intercooler hoses, incorrectly routed wiring harnesses, and others, all on the same car). The usual Mustang build quality issues like panel alignment/gaps, etc., exist on the GT500 as well. I don't really remember reading much about engine failures or major engine issues on stock cars.

The only main engine issue I've heard about is a TSB regarding the secondary timing chain that can cause a catastrophic failure. This can be ruled out by sticking a dental mirror or lighted scope down the oil fill hole to verify if the secondary timing chain is activated. You can check yourself for peace of mind but will need a dealership to verify and document. So far I've only heard about the GT350's having failures not the GT500
https://www.fordgt500.com/threads/20...ctions.196236/
There have been couple major high hp builds (including larger blower and nitrous) with failures (STANGMODE from YouTube is one) but haven't heard of any failures with the bolt-on e85 cars.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I doubt the DCT 7 speed is holding it back. Ford would have used the A10 (or a beefed up one, similar to the ZL1 A10) if the A10 was better. The DCT was heavier and more expensive, but I think it was a performance improvement. It just has a bit longer gearing than the A10, but it's powerful enough and revs high enough to where it isn't holding it back. If anything, like owners' claim, it's amazing and a bright spot in the impressive GT500 powertrain. 4th gear is 1.10:1 so it's geared a little shorter than a typical 6 speed manual.

ZL1 is quicker 30-50 and 50-70 when starting in auto mode (quicker response/downshifts with the A10)

More aggressive trans gearing would definitely exacerbate traction loss in the DCT and lack of torque isn't an issue starting pulls from 5k rpm+ in any gear.

I'll admit I'm mostly into factory straight-line performance/thrills than taking turns on the street and not interested in modding (been there done that) so the 60+ acceleration is a big deal from the factory for me. The GT500 will put a sizeable gap on the ZL1 and Hellcat in a 60-160 roll race. BTW my Tesla M3P is faster 30-70 than the ZL1 and GT500

The DCT in auto mode may not downshift as fast but manually using the paddles the DCT responds to upshift and downshift user inputs way faster than the A10(not subjective).

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Then there's the subjective portions, feel, etc., where some people tend to like the feel of the GT500 brake pedal, and the DCT, or the styling, looks, the Shelby name/lore, etc. I get that. Looks/feel are important. But so is value, and the ZL1 has the GT500 beat at the real market costs.

That said, for the money, I chose ZL1, but the GT500 is a still an awesome car, and by and large, those who have them love them. Not knocking them at all. But you get more for your money with a ZL1.
I agree the ZL1 is probably the better value all aspects considered especially considering the outrageous ADM on the GT500's; but, at the end of the day I buy the car with the higher fun factor and sotp feel (to me) over metrics/stats on paper.

L99BEN may have posted previously about how the acceleration of his ZL1 was underwhelming (I may have the wrong person). I suspect he had air in the intercooler circuit, causing a lack of full power. A ZL1 accelerates as hard as a Hellcat through the quarter mile, and below 65 mph or so, as hard as a GT500, so it shouldn't feel lackluster.

That was me. My ZL1 felt like it had around 500hp and it wasn't just me, as people that rode in it were underwhelmed as well compared to my prior Hellcat. It was the biggest reason I sold it TBH. I was completely unaware of the air in the intercooler circuit issue unfortunately.
The way people praise the ZL1 has left me wondering if we were driving the same car...I need to test drive another one to see what the rage is all about before commenting further on the acceleration to be fair. Had it felt fast I would have likely overlooked the camaro short comings (imo) - cramped feeling interior, terrible visibility, lack of reclining seats, thin steering wheel etc.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Ford will deny warranty to affected areas due to any mods, even cold air intakes. So I'd be really careful. Gains are probably minimal, and you're risking a VERY expensive engine (more expensive than an LT4).

For those into modding the the ZL1 mods well but its easier too go faster(straight-line) and make big power in the GT500. E85 tune, ported blower, smaller pulley, headers, bigger injectors, otherwise Stock fuel system, you're running 150mph in the 1/4 and keeping up with a Plaid from a roll. That said the GT500 powertrain is more expensive to fix out of warranty/pocket, as you stated.

Originally Posted by Evansa22

I find personal experience really valuable so I'm not discounting what you've shared.

[BlaqWhole]

I'll be picking up my GT500 on March 28th!!

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'll be picking up my GT500 on March 28th!!

Nice Do give us the full scoop once you've broken it in.

I wonder if you'll indeed leave it stock(ish), heh.

[ALMN]

https://youtu.be/-gZLTLmZBGM

I did not know about this comparison! GT500 even put down slower time than a Camaro ss 1le on Cup 2 tires which was i believe little over a second faster than with its original Goodyear tire version on a short track like that. Not a same day comparison but its still interesting. Those Cup 2s are magical!!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ALMN

https://youtu.be/-gZLTLmZBGM

I did not know about this comparison! GT500 even put down slower time than a Camaro ss 1le on Cup 2 tires which was i believe little over a second faster than with its original Goodyear tire version on a short track like that. Not a same day comparison but its still interesting. Those Cup 2s are magical!!

When the GT500 was released my thoughts were that with it's specs it was gonna need a track with a lot of long straights so it could stretch it's legs in order to beat cars like the ZL1, ZLE, C8 Z51, and even the SLE. On technical tracks with a lot of braking and cornering and turns it is going to have a hard time against cars with much less power. And it seemed like in the first few reviews they stuck with longer straighter tracks to kinda hide it's weaknesses. And then they could say stuff like "OH MY GAWD this thing is fast". Not for nothing, it IS fast. But it is too high, too heavy, too much weight up front, not enough traction, and the chassis is not up to par like the ZL1 is.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Nice Do give us the full scoop once you've broken it in.

I wonder if you'll indeed leave it stock(ish), heh.

I tried talking myself into it but the biggest issue I have is the costs associated with repairs if something breaks and my warranty is blown. Also it kinda kills resale value to have a car like this and then go crazy modding it. It really ruins the car. I can do all that to my GT and just keep the Shelby stock for cruising and just to say I have one. So maybe just a catback and I already have a JLT cai. If Ford ever offers tuning software that retains the warranty like they do with the GT then I'll go that route. But I just don't want to ruin the car.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I tried talking myself into it but the biggest issue I have is the costs associated with repairs if something breaks and my warranty is blown. Also it kinda kills resale value to have a car like this and then go crazy modding it. It really ruins the car. I can do all that to my GT and just keep the Shelby stock for cruising and just to say I have one. So maybe just a catback and I already have a JLT cai. If Ford ever offers tuning software that retains the warranty like they do with the GT then I'll go that route. But I just don't want to ruin the car.

I know it is tempting, as this car takes to mods so well.
Most don't run a catback because the exhaust sounds good enough and plenty loud from the factory.
The JLT cai is at least great for increasing supercharger sound. Its dyno proven but actual gains on the street are still out for debate. I think expecting 10-15 rwh from the JLT is reasonable.

You can also further optimize the stock setup with a stickier rear tire like Toyo r888, removing some of the the handling package - gurney flap and wickers (for less down force) and hood rain tray (more aero), remove rear seats and lighter wheels for some weigh reduction.

Regardless, the GT500 is plenty capable and fun stock as you can see in this thread:

https://www.fordgt500.com/threads/dr...-stock.197663/

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

I know it is tempting, as this car takes to mods so well.

It is tempting but I have my other cars that I am modding. So I don't mind leaving one of the stock-ish.

Originally Posted by L99BEN

Most don't run a catback because the exhaust sounds good enough and plenty loud from the factory.

I've been watching sound clips and it does sound good stock. But even at that, it still has that stock sound. And I'm not one to leave a car completely stock. Catback is a must-have in my opinion. As long as it isn't gonna run $3000 for a catback.

Originally Posted by L99BEN

The JLT cai is at least great for increasing supercharger sound. Its dyno proven but actual gains on the street are still out for debate. I think expecting 10-15 rwh from the JLT is reasonable.

Any HP bump is icing on the cake. It looks worlds better than the stock setup. And it'll open up that blower whistle s well as open the exhaust up more.

Originally Posted by L99BEN

You can also further optimize the stock setup with a stickier rear tire like Toyo r888, removing some of the the handling package - gurney flap and wickers (for less down force) and hood rain tray (more aero), remove rear seats and lighter wheels for some weigh reduction.

Regardless, the GT500 is plenty capable and fun stock as you can see in this thread:

https://www.fordgt500.com/threads/dr...-stock.197663/

I like the Handling Package look so that is gonna stay. I might throw a better tire on once the stock ones are worn out. I'd love to try those Toyos. We'll see. I just wanna see how it does as a high powered DD.


One thing I noted, with the value of these cars, mine is actually worth more than I got it for, haha!!And I still have yet to pick it up.

[Camaro fanboy]

jesus blaqwhole.
you a billionair?
your car and bike collection is insane.
mortgage free and paid cash for all those vehicles?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Camaro fanboy

jesus blaqwhole.
you a billionair?
your car and bike collection is insane.
mortgage free and paid cash for all those vehicles?

No wife. No kids. Plus my career has been very good to me especially of late. Don't get me wrong, my job is very challenging, stressful, complicated, etc. And there is always a million things to constantly be aware of at all times. Some mornings I leave work and my head is spinning and I can't even think straight. Some mornings I come home and go to sleep and I sleep the entire day and evening. But I enjoy what I do. And my job allows me to have the cars of my dreams. So when it's going rough, I think about the stuff I have and that keeps me motivated.

[Camaro fanboy]