Dyno Battle: GT350, GT350R, and Camaro Z/28

[2015Z28]

The thing to take away from the article and the dyno numbers is that they were all run on the same dyno on the same day. The numbers may be higher then most but they all used the same dyno on the same day.

[Wilbur]

My car put down 469 whp on 93 oct, in south florida weather 90 degrees or so.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

It's a year and a half older than the GT350R. Well, truthfully, it's probably the same age as the GT350R since it probably took Ford a lot longer to design a new car from the ground up than for GM to modify an existing platform.

If you add a "cab" (cam?) to the car, it is no longer that car. LS7's are already the least reliable LS motor GM ever designed in terms of failure rate history. Given the propensity for LS motors to fail in short order after cam swaps these days, I'd skip messing with the stock cam. At that point, you may as well go FI. And at that point, you may as well just get the ZL1.

Realy, the Z/28 is a zeta chassis, that started life in 2006, and that old LS7 that you dont like started back in in the same year, the GT350 started when? lets do this, get the last gen ford and the last gen motor and then compare there best of the last gen to the Z/28 what do you think the outcome will be, my bet is the Z/28 will hand them there hat.

The point of this was to compare power of the old next to the new and the old held up, try doing cams on there motor is price.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS@Gen5diy

Realy, the Z/28 is a zeta chassis, that started life in 2006, and that old LS7 that you dont like started back in in the same year, the GT350 started when? lets do this, get the last gen ford and the last gen motor and then compare there best of the last gen to the Z/28 what do you think the outcome will be, my bet is the Z/28 will hand them there hat.

The point of this was to compare power of the old next to the new and the old held up, try doing cams on there motor is price.

So what you're saying is the Z28 is very overpriced for what it is? If the Z28 is all old tech and just GM's attempt to do the best they can with old stuff, then are you saying the GT350R is a way better deal since you're getting all new stuff for the same price? I don't know about you, but I don't want to have to rip open a motor on a $75,000 car that already has historical reliability issues.

The Z28 was a cool engineering feat for what GM had lying around, but I want to see what the Gen 6 holds. The Z28 was ultimately a novelty stripper car, which is why it didn't sell all that well. It was more of a stunt. Now that Ford has a new, refreshing competitor, GM needs to deliver with the 6th Gen Z28.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

You want a new car every yew so we can do head to head comps so do i, but then cars will cost 300 to start, so this is how it works, but do as I say compare latest technology to latest technology, this has nothing to do with price.

Good luck with your Ford.

[andig]

Originally Posted by ZYBORG

The one good thing that Ford did over GM was make their 350s and incredible bargain. Ford priced their vehicles very approapriately. Too bad dealer greed and mark ups will negate that.

I agree and what is the betting for the next year at least that Ford dealers will be marking up 350R's to $85k+. That alone makes a Z28 for the $60k that you can get one now an absolute bargain!

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS@Gen5diy

You want a new car every yew so we can do head to head comps so do i, but then cars will cost 300 to start, so this is how it works, but do as I say compare latest technology to latest technology, this has nothing to do with price.

Good luck with your Ford.

See, I very much dislike this attitude. Just because you drive a Camaro doesn't mean everything GM does or doesn't do requires excuses and justification. I have owned three cars over the course of my life: two Firebirds and a Camaro. The Gen 5 Z28 was a novelty car. It was a car for virtually no one, which is why virtually no one bought the thing. The SS's and the ZL1's were real vehicles, the Z28 was just for publicity.

The GT350R is a real car that is targeted for a real audience. When the Gen 5 Z28 came out, Ford had no real track competitor so GM had no direct competition. Now they do. GM is behind and playing catch up. They have to design a Z28 that is actually a functional car with bells and whistles, not just some niche publicity stunt that will collect dust on dealership lots for years and sell at $15,000 under MSRP. The correct answer isn't "Wahh, wahh, buy a Ford." The correct answer is, "Step up, GM, and raise the bar." The GT350R is a reason for GM to make something better, not just reuse leftover parts and pray for internet forums to stick up for them because they're GM and people have some kind of brand loyalty. Ford is doing something unique - they actually built a track ready Mustang from the ground up. GM may need to do more than just hand down slightly detuned Corvette parts to compete for a change.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by andig

I agree and what is the betting for the next year at least that Ford dealers will be marking up 350R's to $85k+. That alone makes a Z28 for the $60k that you can get one now an absolute bargain!

The same thing happened with Z28's. Dealers tried pricing them $15,000-20,000 over MSRP. A small handful of suckers bought them, and the rest sat on the lots collecting dust. Now, they can't even give them away for $15,000 under MSRP. Patience.

[G6Flyer]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

It was a car for virtually no one, which is why virtually no one bought the thing. The SS's and the ZL1's were real vehicles, the Z28 was just for publicity.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum. Congratulations!

You obviously never read (or watched) ANY of the reviews that are readily available... And to top it off, you make a comment like that in the Z/28 section?! Troll on, troll...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pmili75]

Choco.

Are you talking about the the GT350 or GT350R. To say the Z/28 is a stripper is total f'ed up. Most have AC, Excellent Stereo, all have blue tooth oh yeah and a rear seat.

GT350R. No A/C. No Rear Seat.

BTW. Hellcats, GT350s GT500s ZL/1s and Z/28s even GTs and SSs are all kick ass rides... And all actually have four seats!!!!!! not a small item in my mind. Yes they are not very useful but if I didn't have them I wouldn't have a Z/28....

[L99CAMA2011]

If you loved the gen 5 Camaro and wanted a factory track toy then the Z28 was the perfect answer. LS7 may be a ticking time bomb but GM hit the mark with the other goodies such as ceramic brakes, dry sump, tires, cooled differential and stunningly good looks. Apparently the Z28 was made for someone like me to be exact.

[Crushinator]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

See, I very much dislike this attitude. Just because you drive a Camaro doesn't mean everything GM does or doesn't do requires excuses and justification. I have owned three cars over the course of my life: two Firebirds and a Camaro. The Gen 5 Z28 was a novelty car. It was a car for virtually no one, which is why virtually no one bought the thing. The SS's and the ZL1's were real vehicles, the Z28 was just for publicity.

The GT350R is a real car that is targeted for a real audience. When the Gen 5 Z28 came out, Ford had no real track competitor so GM had no direct competition. Now they do. GM is behind and playing catch up. They have to design a Z28 that is actually a functional car with bells and whistles, not just some niche publicity stunt that will collect dust on dealership lots for years and sell at $15,000 under MSRP. The correct answer isn't "Wahh, wahh, buy a Ford." The correct answer is, "Step up, GM, and raise the bar." The GT350R is a reason for GM to make something better, not just reuse leftover parts and pray for internet forums to stick up for them because they're GM and people have some kind of brand loyalty. Ford is doing something unique - they actually built a track ready Mustang from the ground up. GM may need to do more than just hand down slightly detuned Corvette parts to compete for a change.

You've owned three cars in your life and you're trying to educate people that own Z/28's, in a Z/28 section of this forum, on why the Z/28 is overpriced and inferior to the GT350? Hahaha I guess this is based on your extensive experience in driving high end cars, right? Have you ever actually sat in a Z/28? Drove one? Hell, have you ever seen one in person? You have no credibility here.

Let me put it this way. I've owned 86 cars. Four Z06's, (one ECS supercharged at 850 horsepower) a supercharged C5, two Shelby GT500's, (one 875 horsepower) two Dodge Vipers...just to name a few. The Z/28 is a better overall car than anything I've owned.

So please, stop trying to impress people with you incredible knowledge of cars, until you've walked the walk.

[gen6waiter]

I have owned 201.5 cars and walked the walk. I got no proof though. Does that count?

[andig]

I still don't get why there is so much angst towards the Z/28. A bit like Crushinator, I have been lucky to own a number of high end cars over the years and in my opinion the Z/28 is something really special...to me at least, which at the end of the day is all that matters.

When I am asked what is so special about a Camaro with big tires and a body kit, I reckon it comes down to three words "fitness for purpose" it is a hardcore street legal track car that the GM engineers did a phenomenal job with and it wasn't just about raiding the leftover GM parts bin....spool valve dampers.....Brembo carbon ceramics.....Recaro's are definitely not leftovers!

Does this mean the car is hard riding, noisy and a bit uncomfortable on the street? Absolutely and I love it because of what it is.

An then there is the angst about price. $75k is a lot of money for a Camaro that starts at $25k but so is spending $175k on a 911 GT3 RS when you can buy a 911 Carrera for $95k.

I was also clearly one of the fools that paid close to list over a year ago. Do I wish I could have got it for $60k now? Sure, but I don't lose any sleep over it and I have had an absolute blast driving it for the past year rather than surfing the net waiting for the price to come down!

Finally, the GT350R. I think it is fabulous that Ford have built it and given all of us car nuts another weapon to choose from. Is it better than a Z/28? Probably and it damn well should be but again do I care? Not a bit!

Rant over - let's all just enjoy our cars, whatever make, model, performance level.

Andy