[NickyRacerBoy]

Wanna get these next...nice unsprung weight savings


https://www.racingbrake.com/product-p/2505.htm

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Homeless Junkie

I go to Sonoma Raceway and it’s known to be the most technical track in North America. Turn 7 at Sonoma has me braking from 115 mph to 45-50 mph. I’ve never noticed a need to change to aftermarket pads. Try changing brake fluid first and see if that helps. I would also find the limit of your brakes by pushing the pedal in hard enough to activate the ABS. That’s 10. If you find you’re hitting the ABS a lot after knowing the limit then start thinking pads.

I run GY SC 3Rs and did 5 track days on the rears and 4 on the fronts. I could probably get another day, 5 25 minutes sessions, before chording the fronts. If you’re only doing 8 days/year that’s two sets of tires a year. Not bad in most people’s book. Like someone said, this thing we’re into is expensive. You gotta play to play.

I get you don’t wanna hear this but from one guy with the same experience level to another.. don’t buy slicks.

Good to know, I've never heard of someone getting that much life out of the SC3R's, but my sample size is very low, I sure hope I can get that out of them too.

I assumed there would be a big difference between slicks and SC3R's but maybe there isn't in term of the impact it has on brakes?

To clarify, I haven't had any "problems yet" since I've just been running with a the stock set up, I'm just trying to plan ahead and prevent a problem from occurring when going to stickier tires, but I do plan on moving the Castrol brake fluid regardless next season.

I'm thinking going to SC3R's might be the best bet afterall and leaving everything else (pads and oil) stock.

Thanks for your feedback

Regarding the track I'm on, the former lead instructor who was a back up F1 car driver said he's been on over 100 circuits in Europe and this track was top 3 difficulty. Sounds like there are some similarities between the tracks we drive on.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Move_Over

I think what he means is that the same pad should not be used for street driving, and tracking with slicks. Which, I’m in agreement with, a pad that is acceptable for good street use really shouldn’t be used with a slick as its not going to have nearly enough stopping power for slicks.

Thanks for the interpretation and clarification

Originally Posted by Move_Over

Yes they are very easy to change. Two bolts to remove for the front calipers, and a punch tool. The rear calipers are just a punch tool. And press the pistons back in. Different methods for that though. I use the pad itself to push the pistons back in before removal.

R12 is made by gloc.

DTC 30 i essentially melted. I got them too hot and they separated from the backing plate and crumbled. They are not made for heavy track cars, probably fine on the street though

Thanks for that input, not sure if I have the patience for that or not, but does't seem as difficult as I thought (by difficult I really meant the time and patience it takes me haha).

Perhaps the R12 made by gloc will make my list afterall, if I don't decide to just stick with stock pads and go to SC3R's as many people are advising here.

Interesting regarding the DTC30, my father driver a heavily modified 1975 transam that is also a heavy car and Hawk recommended this pad for him considering the weight of his car.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

R12 is G-loc's third step up in their track-rated pad ladder, and it's essentially the same pad as Carbotech's XP12. FWIW, I'm not the only one finding that 10's last slightly/somewhat longer than 12's. As long as you aren't needing the extra temperature capability of the 12's, anyway.

What makes me uneasy about Hawk's DTC30/Street Race compound is that mu falls off a cliff at just over 1200°F / 650°C. I'm afraid that without quite a bit more experience you might not feel them going away on you in time. I'm not at all sure that I would.

I do trust at least the general shape of Hawk's or any other pad mfr's curves without worrying if the "exact" temperature at any given value of mu for any given batch is precisely as plotted or within some unknown plus/minus amount . . . I think I'd trust mu to be within ±0.02 before trusting °F/°C to be within 25°.


Norm

Thanks for that feedback Norm, read the same thing regarding the Carb XP12's /glocs from some other members, would it be safe to assume I won't be hitting temps of 1200°F / 650°C or is that totally dependent on the track and my driving style?
I'll probably get some temp stickers like Sean is using to see where I am at as I really have no idea.

I think my concern over the graphs started when I read one members post about throwing away Raybesto's chart and then me seeing the vast different in friction mu levels between manufacturers.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by NickyRacerBoy

What group do you run in? How much seat time do you have? Number of track days?

I'm a beginner with only 6 track days in my first season, mostly I'm trying to plan for the future. I run in the advanced tier when there are 3 groups, apparently due to the difficulty of this track running within 1 second of other lap times is considered consistent, which I am. I started in the 1:27 and 1:26's and now I'm down to the 1:23's and 1:24's but I know I have a ton to learn and improve on. This track is not friendly to the Camaro given the slow speeds and tight corners but it will be in a year or two when we get the longest straightaway in North America added to it



The former lead instructor gets a 1:22 in a Porsche Cayman S so I hope I can get into the 1:22's either later this season or early next season.

Originally Posted by NickyRacerBoy

BTW I've used Pirelli DH take offs and and only got 3 sessions on them. After that I was off by a second. They are not cheaper in the end then new Hoosiers in my case.

That's good to know, my father just started trying the Pirelli DH take offs after having new Hooiser R7's. So far he doesn't think these slicks are any faster than the R7's, but that's just a feeling and he only had 2 sessions on them before his car broke.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by seanblurr

I have indeed run the stock pads with a few different tire combinations including SC3R's, NTO1's, Hoosier R7's, and DH take-offs. They worked for all the tires. With that said, they WILL fade. But it is a very linear, consistent and manageable fade. I never felt they truly impacted safety or lap times. You can run them all day and they won't destroy your calipers either.

I finally ran a set of DTC70/60's this past event and I really did not feel a huge improvement. They generated a few hundred degrees more (I have temp stickers on calipers), which in turn caused some fluid issue. They also after one event turned all four calipers into Brownbo's. All in all, taking into account the extra heat, "destruction" of the calipers and marginal improvement in braking performance, I can not say I find them worth it. I will be giving them another go in two weeks at a different track, so we will see if my opinion changes.

Super valuable first hand experience, thanks Sean.
Looking forward to hearing/reading what your next experience is like, but that speaks volumes.
Interested to see if you're interested in the Racing Brake product recommended by Nicky.

Where did you get the temp stickers from? I might try that myself just to see what this track and my braking style bring my temps up to.

[NickyRacerBoy]

my suggestion is run a R compound tire. If one brand xis on sale then go for it.
run stock pads too.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by NickyRacerBoy

my suggestion is run a R compound tire. If one brand xis on sale then go for it.
run stock pads too.

Starting to lean this way from the overwhelming consistent advice from members here Also the easiest route for sure.

Plus as I improve I'll have more to look forward to for future tracking sessions if I want to upgrade the car later.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone make a better cooling ducting brake system for our cars?

[mt.nichols]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Starting to lean this way from the overwhelming consistent advice from members here Also the easiest route for sure.

Plus as I improve I'll have more to look forward to for future tracking sessions if I want to upgrade the car later.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone make a better cooling ducting brake system for our cars?

Garage Therapy NC makes a kit and I have it installed on my car. I don't have any data to determine whether it is effective, but I've had no brake fade across numerous track days in the Texas heat.

I also have Castrol SRF and upgraded pads but the stock pads did well, too.

[dbiker207]

Running slicks as a beginner is a bad idea in my opinion. I dont have any experience with the Camaro yet but on my M3 I use Performance Friction PFC08 pads and get great life out of them (10-12 events). They can be used on the street but are very loud.

Using slicks with stock pads seems like a stretch to me. With the added traction I would want a more aggressive pad.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Thanks for that feedback Norm, read the same thing regarding the Carb XP12's /glocs from some other members, would it be safe to assume I won't be hitting temps of 1200°F / 650°C or is that totally dependent on the track and my driving style?
I'll probably get some temp stickers like Sean is using to see where I am at as I really have no idea.

I wouldn't assume anything, given your car's potential.

What I can tell you is that I appear to have mildly overheated a set of XP8 Carbotechs (comparable temperature rating to the DTC30) with about half your HP, mostly on tracks that are somewhat less brake-intensive than what I think you're describing (only two truly heavy braking zones per lap, fairly evenly spaced; I think Nicky will agree). For me, those stops are roughly 125 to 65 and 105 to 55; his will be considerably faster.

Picture taken at 50% friction material thickness.



Something else to be aware of . . . I have noticed that on leaving the hotel the morning after a track day that bite is a little on the soft side for the first few street stops before it recovers. But they never faded at all out on the track the day before, and they're fine on day 2 of a 2-day event.. FWIW, I'm running MPSS tires (Aim datalogging has the car out past 1.25g during a session).

I'll have to hunt down that Raybestos chart just to add to my collection of such information - do you have a link?


Norm

[NickyRacerBoy]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Starting to lean this way from the overwhelming consistent advice from members here Also the easiest route for sure.

Plus as I improve I'll have more to look forward to for future tracking sessions if I want to upgrade the car later.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone make a better cooling ducting brake system for our cars?

Is your car a 1le? is so add air deflectors to lower control arm.
You are not going to overheat your brakes. I am considered a "demon" on the brakes and never once had an issue.
Just get some R compounds that are on sale and make sure you have 50% of greater left on your pads and get out there. I am one not to over analyze things but just "do it"
I understand everyone's a little different but just get out there and get seat time! Sorry if I am a little ruff but....

[Heartbreaker]

Originally Posted by rickybobby

I really feel like stock pads fit the bill for what you are describing. Race pads won’t necessarily last much longer and will cost more. Are you fading them or is your complaint that they aren’t lasting long enough.

If you are set on a race compound than you really should just bite the bullet and swap them out for track days to get the best of both worlds. Just my .02 cents.

+1 on the stock pads

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by NickyRacerBoy

Is your car a 1le? is so add air deflectors to lower control arm.
You are not going to overheat your brakes. I am considered a "demon" on the brakes and never once had an issue.
Just get some R compounds that are on sale and make sure you have 50% of greater left on your pads and get out there. I am one not to over analyze things but just "do it"
I understand everyone's a little different but just get out there and get seat time! Sorry if I am a little ruff but....

haha nothing to apologize for that's for sure, no my car is a ZL1.
I was asking in the context of what Sean has been through with his brakes and using slicks, if I decide to go that route in the future further down the road.